Progest-e And Progestogenic [Danny Roddy]

[Broco6679]

I must say I thoroughly enjoy your posts, and our conversations. The fact that you have academic experience in biochemistry explains much of your eloquence and knowledge on this topic.

Haha, I appreciate the kind words, but I've found my academic experience in biology and medicine to be essentially useless. I spent four years getting my undergraduate and masters in physiology at one of the highest ranked research-led universities in the country, yet I still knew essentially nothing about biology when I left. I saw the same thing in all of my peers, too - one girl who I shared a lab with completed a phd investigating novel type 2 diabetes biomarkers, yet she was still under the impression refined sugars were the sole cause. The entire system is also obssed with genetics

The whole thing is one big memory test, with little emphasis on, or reward for free thinking. Your entire grade is determined by your ability to remember and regurgitate useless, isolated facts; with each new fact often contradicting the one before it, though nobody seems to care or raise question.

I couldn't recommend anybody to study science at university if their main aim is to actually learn. The only reason to go is if you need a particularly qualification for a specific job.

Anyway, enough ranting. I'd love to read your work - shoot me a pm with a link whenever you're free!

 

[mrchibbs]

Haha, I appreciate the kind words, but I've found my academic experience in biology and medicine to be essentially useless. I spent four years getting my undergraduate and masters in physiology at one of the highest ranked research-led universities in the country, yet I still knew essentially nothing about biology when I left. I saw the same thing in all of my peers, too - one girl who I shared a lab with completed a phd investigating novel type 2 diabetes biomarkers, yet she was still under the impression refined sugars were the sole cause. The entire system is also obssed with genetics

The whole thing is one big memory test, with little emphasis on, or reward for free thinking. Your entire grade is determined by your ability to remember and regurgitate useless, isolated facts; with each new fact often contradicting the one before it, though nobody seems to care or raise question.

I couldn't recommend anybody to study science at university if their main aim is to actually learn. The only reason to go is if you need a particularly qualification for a specific job.

Anyway, enough ranting. I'd love to read your work - shoot me a pm with a link whenever you're free!

I totally understand the perspective of feeling like academia was a huge waste of time. I've just gone through about 6-7 years of college and graduate studies, and aside from certain teaching and research experiences, most of it was straight garbage and I feel dumber now than I did at 19, before college...lol

If I was to do it over, I'd learn on my own, and would gear my life towards the projects I wanted to explore. A lot of wasted time learning fraudulent theories and half-baked courses. I guess diplomas do give you some credibility, but it's meaningless if you don't necessarily plan on being part of the common workforce. There are a few good things with college, the interactions, and if you find some nice people it can be a rewarding time too, so it's not all black.

I'll def send you a pm very soon!

 

[Pablo Cruise]

Unless, you can use a formulation topically that prevents percutaneous absorption, ie, a true liposomal formulation. Per studies, absorption is minimal. Surprised many here have not heard of liposomal forms.

 

[mrchibbs]

Unless, you can use a formulation topically that prevents percutaneous absorption, ie, a true liposomal formulation. Per studies, absorption is minimal. Surprised many here have not heard of liposomal forms.

Are you referring to progesterone? The studies are not reliable, Ray showed that with the addition of vitamin E, absorption is excellent.

 

[jonnytrigger]

Carbon dioxide is injected for the treatment of scars, stretch marks, wrinkles, black areas under eyes, etc.. It enhances collagen turnover and can help renew old tissue and ofc blood flow. I wonder if anyone ever tried that of bald areas.

Stemoxydine is thought to do that

 

[Pablo Cruise]

I am referring to Finasteride and Dutasteride. The liposomes keep the drugs localized so a drug that works that has virtually, zip, zero side effects is the idea. that is what the studies have shown, multiple ones. You get in one study 5 times more local absorption with little to no absorption. I will post them if requested. I think I might have read everyone I could find on the internet or tried.

 

[Hans]

Stemoxydine is thought to do that

CO2 should actually help with oxygenation, but might cause hypoxia for a brief moment as it's being injected.
Stemoxydine stabilizes HIF, which promotes hypoxia. Hypoxia is never a good thing as it wastes glucose to lactate. However it might initially be "helpful".

Oral Presentations
"These results suggest that hypoxia may be an important regulator of stem/progenitor cells function in the human hair follicle."

Short term hypoxia can increase vasodilation as part of the "shock response" and that can be how it helps. Long term hypoxia leads to fibrosis and calcification. Chronic hypoxia leads to hair loss.

Transcutaneous PO2 of the Scalp in Male Pattern Baldness: A New Piece to the Puzzle - PubMed
"Transcutaneous PO2 was significantly lower in bald frontal scalp (32.2 +/- 2.0 mmHg) than in hair-bearing temporal scalp (51.8 +/- 4.4 mmHg) in men with male pattern baldness. In controls, there was no significant difference in transcutaneous PO2 of frontal scalp (53.9 +/- 3.5 mmHg) and temporal scalp (61.4 +/- 2.7 mmHg). Transcutaneous PO2 also was significantly lower in the frontal scalp of male pattern baldness subjects (32.2 +/- 2.0 mmHg) than in either frontal or temporal scalp of controls (53.9 +/- 3.5 mmHg and 61.4 +/- 2.7 mmHg, respectively). There is a relative microvascular insufficiency to regions of the scalp that lose hair in male pattern baldness. We have identified a previously unreported tissue hypoxia in bald scalp compared with hair-bearing scalp."

I'd say CO2 is much safer because it dissolves scar tissue and promotes better tissue oxygenation, instead of causing hypoxia.

 

[jonnytrigger]

CO2 should actually help with oxygenation, but might cause hypoxia for a brief moment as it's being injected.
Stemoxydine stabilizes HIF, which promotes hypoxia. Hypoxia is never a good thing as it wastes glucose to lactate. However it might initially be "helpful".

Oral Presentations
"These results suggest that hypoxia may be an important regulator of stem/progenitor cells function in the human hair follicle."

Short term hypoxia can increase vasodilation as part of the "shock response" and that can be how it helps. Long term hypoxia leads to fibrosis and calcification. Chronic hypoxia leads to hair loss.

Transcutaneous PO2 of the Scalp in Male Pattern Baldness: A New Piece to the Puzzle - PubMed
"Transcutaneous PO2 was significantly lower in bald frontal scalp (32.2 +/- 2.0 mmHg) than in hair-bearing temporal scalp (51.8 +/- 4.4 mmHg) in men with male pattern baldness. In controls, there was no significant difference in transcutaneous PO2 of frontal scalp (53.9 +/- 3.5 mmHg) and temporal scalp (61.4 +/- 2.7 mmHg). Transcutaneous PO2 also was significantly lower in the frontal scalp of male pattern baldness subjects (32.2 +/- 2.0 mmHg) than in either frontal or temporal scalp of controls (53.9 +/- 3.5 mmHg and 61.4 +/- 2.7 mmHg, respectively). There is a relative microvascular insufficiency to regions of the scalp that lose hair in male pattern baldness. We have identified a previously unreported tissue hypoxia in bald scalp compared with hair-bearing scalp."

I'd say CO2 is much safer because it dissolves scar tissue and promotes better tissue oxygenation, instead of causing hypoxia.

I see makes sense, but is there an effective way of increasing C02 in scalp without injection?

The bicarbonate soda makes sense but has anyone had success with it here, and how would it compare to carboxy therapy administered by a Dr.

Also those that use stemoxydine say their hair doesn't become addicted to it which is interesting

 

[Hans]

I see makes sense, but is there an effective way of increasing C02 in scalp without injection?

The bicarbonate soda makes sense but has anyone had success with it here, and how would it compare to carboxy therapy administered by a Dr.

Also those that use stemoxydine say their hair doesn't become addicted to it which is interesting

Not by a scientifically proven method that I know of, but a few things that can work is an airtight cap or a carbonic anhydrase inhibitor.
There is a face lotion that improves skin quality by trapping CO2 in the skin. Perhaps something similar can be due for the scalp as well.

 

[Pablo Cruise]

So Fin increase serum Progesterone and is possibly a mechanism of improving hair growth. What is your theory on using Fin topically and how successful it is....according to studies?
Topically some formulations of Fin 0.25% (in liposomal base) have had great results over year of use as well as higher strengths and no detectable decreases in serum DHT.

 

[mrchibbs]

So Fin increase serum Progesterone and is possibly a mechanism of improving hair growth. What is your theory on using Fin topically and how successful it is....according to studies?
Topically some formulations of Fin 0.25% (in liposomal base) have had great results over year of use as well as higher strengths and no detectable decreases in serum DHT.

I would certainly think topical is much safer! Do you have the studies? If serum DHT is not affected, and it is indeed helpful, why not? I still think topical progesterone would do just as good but I certainly wouldn't stop someone from using topical fin if they felt it benefited them.

 

[Pablo Cruise]

So Progesterone and Fin together in a liposomal base? And Minoxidil? I can do that since I make liposomal Fin and will be providing to docs all over the U.S. soon.
Notice the low strength of Fin in study 2, 0.25%....what caught my eye was that the liposomes increase local absorption, not systemic, by 5 fold with virtually no changes in DHT levels.

Do I have studies? You bet. Check it:
1. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6609098 "A Systematic Review of Topical Finasteride in the Treatment of AA in Men and" .....
2. www.ncbi.nlm.gov/pubmed/18161632 "Develoment of liposomal systems of finasteride for topical application:design, characterization and in vitro evaluation
3. try pubmed "Enhancement of follicular delivery of Finasteride delivery by Liposomes and niosomes", in vitro and in vivo deposition studies using hamster flank and ear models

If people can acquire the products they are not real hard to make but does require a number of filming, thickening agents and liposomal base. There are key ingredients that create the film that limits absorption besides the liposomes/niosomes. Danny Roddy I read is a believer....My products do require a prescription since I am licensed, so sorry.

 

[mrchibbs]

So Progesterone and Fin together in a liposomal base? And Minoxidil? I can do that since I make liposomal Fin and will be providing to docs all over the U.S. soon.
Notice the low strength of Fin in study 2, 0.25%....what caught my eye was that the liposomes increase local absorption, not systemic, by 5 fold with virtually no changes in DHT levels.

Do I have studies? You bet. Check it:
1. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6609098 "A Systematic Review of Topical Finasteride in the Treatment of AA in Men and" .....
2. www.ncbi.nlm.gov/pubmed/18161632 "Develoment of liposomal systems of finasteride for topical application:design, characterization and in vitro evaluation
3. try pubmed "Enhancement of follicular delivery of Finasteride delivery by Liposomes and niosomes", in vitro and in vivo deposition studies using hamster flank and ear models

If people can acquire the products they are not real hard to make but does require a number of filming, thickening agents and liposomal base. There are key ingredients that create the film that limits absorption besides the liposomes/niosomes. Danny Roddy I read is a believer....My products do require a prescription since I am licensed, so sorry.

Thanks for the studies! I am not dogmatic against the use of any compound, if they are reasonably safe, and I certainly think these studies look interesting.

Oral finasteride is super dangerous (in my view), but this topical solution sounds interesting. I still tend to be biased towards topical progesterone, simply because I think it is shady how there have virtually been no studies on its use for hair loss simply because it cannot be patented and be profitable. Instead we get loads of studies on synthetic ''progestins'' (I consider finasteride as such because it is made from progesterone).

I will go read those studies, thanks again!

 

[Pablo Cruise]

Massage away. I did for 1.3 years, twice a day, 10-15 min religiously. I saw zero results. Maybe it works for others or breaks up fibrotic tissue theory but I doubt it. I am older shall we say. Age is a factor. After amazing success with Fin and so much hair that as you age hair dynamics change in that treatments may have to be altered as you age if you were like me who initially had great hair with Fin, now find it ineffectual. Sure other factors could explain that, ie, tolerance.

Rather amazing giving the genome discoveries we can't find the right genes and a way to manipulate them. Sorry MrChibbs, thyroid may only be of importance in thyroid dysfunction or disease. I don't subscribe to the theory that all AGA sufferers are hypothyroid. When we will find concrete pathophysiology of hair growth?

Who wants Progesterone/Minoxidil in a liposomal base? Let me know.

 

[DhtAssassin]

Massage away. I did for 1.3 years, twice a day, 10-15 min religiously. I saw zero results. Maybe it works for others or breaks up fibrotic tissue theory but I doubt it. I am older shall we say. Age is a factor. After amazing success with Fin and so much hair that as you age hair dynamics change in that treatments may have to be altered as you age if you were like me who initially had great hair with Fin, now find it ineffectual. Sure other factors could explain that, ie, tolerance.

Rather amazing giving the genome discoveries we can't find the right genes and a way to manipulate them. Sorry MrChibbs, thyroid may only be of importance in thyroid dysfunction or disease. I don't subscribe to the theory that all AGA sufferers are hypothyroid. When we will find concrete pathophysiology of hair growth?

Who wants Progesterone/Minoxidil in a liposomal base? Let me know.

Are you selling it?

 

[Cheese liver]

Not by a scientifically proven method that I know of, but a few things that can work is an airtight cap or a carbonic anhydrase inhibitor.
There is a face lotion that improves skin quality by trapping CO2 in the skin. Perhaps something similar can be due for the scalp as well.
CO2 should actually help with oxygenation, but might cause hypoxia for a brief moment as it's being injected.
Stemoxydine stabilizes HIF, which promotes hypoxia. Hypoxia is never a good thing as it wastes glucose to lactate. However it might initially be "helpful".

Oral Presentations
"These results suggest that hypoxia may be an important regulator of stem/progenitor cells function in the human hair follicle."

Short term hypoxia can increase vasodilation as part of the "shock response" and that can be how it helps. Long term hypoxia leads to fibrosis and calcification. Chronic hypoxia leads to hair loss.

Transcutaneous PO2 of the Scalp in Male Pattern Baldness: A New Piece to the Puzzle - PubMed
"Transcutaneous PO2 was significantly lower in bald frontal scalp (32.2 +/- 2.0 mmHg) than in hair-bearing temporal scalp (51.8 +/- 4.4 mmHg) in men with male pattern baldness. In controls, there was no significant difference in transcutaneous PO2 of frontal scalp (53.9 +/- 3.5 mmHg) and temporal scalp (61.4 +/- 2.7 mmHg). Transcutaneous PO2 also was significantly lower in the frontal scalp of male pattern baldness subjects (32.2 +/- 2.0 mmHg) than in either frontal or temporal scalp of controls (53.9 +/- 3.5 mmHg and 61.4 +/- 2.7 mmHg, respectively). There is a relative microvascular insufficiency to regions of the scalp that lose hair in male pattern baldness. We have identified a previously unreported tissue hypoxia in bald scalp compared with hair-bearing scalp."

I'd say CO2 is much safer because it dissolves scar tissue and promotes better tissue oxygenation, instead of causing hypoxia.

On this note I have heard of a treatment named carboxytherapy which is used in the treatment of scars , tissue , marks etc. I wonder if it might help ? Any thoughts on this anyone ? Any harms of injecting super physiological CO2 in the scalp?

 

[Hans]

On this note I have heard of a treatment named carboxytherapy which is used in the treatment of scars , tissue , marks etc. I wonder if it might help ? Any thoughts on this anyone ? Any harms of injecting super physiological CO2 in the scalp?

I think that can be helpful for sure. The results seem to be pretty good. No side effects as far as I know, but I know Peat is against needles and injections.

 

[Cheese liver]

I think that can be helpful for sure. The results seem to be pretty good. No side effects as far as I know, but I know Peat is against needles and injections.

I see Thank you for replying .

 

[Jack Earth]

Been playing around with doses and combos, but I would say high dose prog (20-50mg/day) and low dose preg (5-10mg/day) seems a nice spot for me right now.

I tried adding low dose dhea (5mg/day) but my hair didn’t look quite as good, which has always been the case whenever I use dhea (pansterone or cortinon).

I went with high prog to test out the theory peat and others say about low dose prog sometimes causing estrogenic symptoms, so you need to flush out the tissues first with high doses. No idea how accurate that is, but my body is responding really well to higher doses of prog right now.

Pros - super relaxed, harder erections, balls hang lower, skin and hair look better, face just appears better, definite increase in muscle size/tightness as per lowering cortisol
Cons - bit lethargic during the day, perhaps a loss of emotion to a degree but I don’t care about it (haha)

Who knows if it will be constant or if I’m just benefiting from a short term thing.

What effects on hair so far?
I have been sitting on some prog for a while now to put on scalp but was still holding off due to fear of sides.
You if you have the article ray discusses dosage link it