haidut

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What's the argument for taking a synthetic supplement of something that can be consumed naturally in a food? Even Peat recommends against such things - he said its much safer to eat coconut oil than to take the "MCT oils" ..

There is no argument, it is a supplement - i.e. to supplement diet, not replace it. Some people may not want to ingest 30g of olive oil daily to get 100mg of squalene. And I am not even sue what food would give you 100mg phytol.
 
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Koveras

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Yes, it is similar to vitamin A in that respect. But one of the studies I posted above in the "Skin health" section deals exactly with the presence of squalene in the sebum and concludes that it is there as a protective mechanism. Also, the amount in Gonadin is not that much, and it matches the study in boars. So, I used the minimum amount that was shown to have a highly beneficial effects. Finally, there is sufficient vitamin E in Gonadin to protect from any peroxidation issues with squalene.

N/M - answered
 

haidut

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OK, so it changed a number on a paper, but were there any signs and symptoms that improved, physical or mental changes?

and any side-effects?

No side effects. It improved weight lifting capacity and mood. I am not sure if this is due to the T boost or the dopaminergic effects squalene showed in one study.
 

Agent207

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Possibly, when injected. Squalene is present in (real) olive oil in about 0.5% concentration. So if you eat about 30g of olive oil you'd get that amount of squalene. I am not aware of anybody getting side effects from dietary squalene.

This study discusses possible squalene-mediated virgin olive oil beneficial effects,

"Squalene, first isolated from shark liver oil and named by Tsujimoto in 1916 [8], is a polyunsaturated triterpene containing six isoprene units and a biochemical precursor of cholesterol and other steroids [9]. Squalene content in extra virgin olive oil is especially high, up to 0.7% (7 g/kg), compared to other oils and human dietary fats [10], [11]. In vitro, it is a highly effective oxygen scavenging agent [12]"
Dietary Squalene Increases High Density Lipoprotein-Cholesterol and Paraoxonase 1 and Decreases Oxidative Stress in Mice

So a single tbsp of olive oil contains up to 100mg squalene woww, I've been taking evoo almost all my life and so squalene without knowking. I always swore by olive oil, god knows what pile of other countless unknown substances it contains.

I think for pushing those properties as a supplement, the ideal should be going on higher doses than obtained normally through food, to see if there is an increased effect. Or give a try to its saturated version,
"Squalane is a saturated form of squalene in which the double bonds have been eliminated by hydrogenation. Squalane is less susceptible to oxidation than squalene" - Squalene - Wikipedia

which in Peat land it could be suggested to be superior for being fully saturated, under the principle: "saturated is always better, polyunsaturated tends to be the opposite".
 
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Agent207

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Squalene. The miraculous essential omega 2 oil. Secrets from the sea

"The biochemical structure of squalene is C30 H50 (C30:6n-omega2) all trans isoprenoid"
"Squalene an omega 2 fatty acid has unlike omega 3 fish oils more complete and effective chemic groups."
"As an omega 2 fatty acid squalene has a redox function which releases oxygen from water, resulting in this above mentioned increased oxygen level in the cells."

Lol you're promoting and omega supplement!! can't wait to know what Peat thinks of this compound... my guess is that he will be skeptical because its pufa structure.
 

Agent207

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Finally, the study in boars used 40mg/kg of diet, not bodyweight. From the study:
"...Experimental groups of boars were treated with 10, 20 or 40 mg/kg/day squalene in 1 kg basal diet, respectively (Healthy Nature Resource, Inc., Walnut, CA, USA) and then were fed with 1.5 kg basal diet and 0.5–1.0 kg green feed daily."
Im not sure of that interpretation about the dose being based on kg. of food. I would say it is per kg of body weight. If it were as you say, then why to specify "/day"?. If it were based in the kgs of food, the "/day" would have no sense, it would add no info to the calculated amount.
 
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haidut

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This study discusses possible squalene-mediated virgin olive oil beneficial effects,

"Squalene, first isolated from shark liver oil and named by Tsujimoto in 1916 [8], is a polyunsaturated triterpene containing six isoprene units and a biochemical precursor of cholesterol and other steroids [9]. Squalene content in extra virgin olive oil is especially high, up to 0.7% (7 g/kg), compared to other oils and human dietary fats [10], [11]. In vitro, it is a highly effective oxygen scavenging agent [12]"
Dietary Squalene Increases High Density Lipoprotein-Cholesterol and Paraoxonase 1 and Decreases Oxidative Stress in Mice

So a single tbsp of olive oil contains up to 100mg squalene woww, I've been taking evoo almost all my life and so squalene without knowking. I always swore by olive oil, god knows what pile of other countless unknown substances it contains.

I think for pushing those properties as a supplement, the ideal should be going on higher doses than obtained normally through food, to see if there is an increased effect. Or give a try to its saturated version,
"Squalane is a saturated form of squalene in which the double bonds have been eliminated by hydrogenation. Squalane is less susceptible to oxidation than squalene" - Squalene - Wikipedia

which in Peat land it could be suggested to be superior for being fully saturated, under the principle: "saturated is always better, polyunsaturated tends to be the opposite".

The squalene in Gonadin is mostly as a booster. The primary ingredient is Phytol as that is what increased StAR activity 6-fold and T/progesterone levels several fold. The squalene in commercially sold EVOO was tested a few times and it was found to be very low. I think it was in one of the Consumer Reports or something. Higher amounts of squalene probably get in the danger zone due to their unsaturatedness. As I mentioned, squalane is not an option as it was not found to have the beneficial effets of squalene. Look at the References section. There are few studies that compare squalene and squalane. You can also search Pubmed for "squalene squalane".
Effects of squalene/squalane on dopamine levels, antioxidant enzyme activity, and fatty acid composition in the striatum of Parkinson's disease mou... - PubMed - NCBI
"...Squalane increased thiobarbituric acid reactive substances, a marker of lipid peroxidation, in the striatum. Both squalane and squalene increased the ratio of linoleic acid/linolenic acid in the striatum. "
 

haidut

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Im not sure of that interpretation about the dose being based on kg. of food. I would say it is per kg of body weight. If it were as you say, why specify the "/day". If it were based in the kgs of food, the "/day" would have no sense, it would add no info to the calculated amount.

That is how it is usually specified. The "daily" reference has no bearing. They also discuss "basal diet" vs. supplemented one. And if that was not enough, in the Discussion section they have this excerpt.
".... In our study, the major components of basal diet were soybean and corn, the green feed was pumpkin, so the squalene content was very low and could be ignored compared with experimental addition (10, 20 or 40 mg/kg/day squalene). It almost did not affect our results".

So, the discussion is about the squalene content in basal diet vs/ squalene content in supplemented diet. But just to make sure, I will email them and ask for clarification. Finally, the squalene is there just as a booster. The phytol is the primary ingredient as I mentioned in a post above.
 

haidut

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Squalene. The miraculous essential omega 2 oil. Secrets from the sea

"The biochemical structure of squalene is C30 H50 (C30:6n-omega2) all trans isoprenoid"
"Squalene an omega 2 fatty acid has unlike omega 3 fish oils more complete and effective chemic groups."
"As an omega 2 fatty acid squalene has a redox function which releases oxygen from water, resulting in this above mentioned increased oxygen level in the cells."

Lol you're promoting and omega supplement!! can't wait to know what Peat thinks of this compound... my guess is that he will be skeptical because its pufa structure.

Lol, vitamin A is also highly unsaturated. Are you taking vitamin A? Considering the amounts present in Gonadin (100mg - 200mg daily) you probably get more PUFA from your vitamin E supplement if you bought it from the store. Gonadin also contains vitamin E so it should protect from any theoretical risks form this small amount of unsaturated compounds.
Finally, if you had taken the time to actually read even the Wiipedia page on squalene (and the original post in the thread) you would have seen that squalene is a precursor to ALL steroids in humans, including vitamin D, and of course cholesterol and lanosterol. So, apparently we do have a use for squalene.
 
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Agent207

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Yeah, it was just a joke :) Btw, why you didn't put GGOH in it too, to make it more "complete". Did you considerate it and discarded the idea for some reason?

How much GGOH is in mk4, and how much would be the dose of mk4 to achieve 30μM of GGOH?
 

haidut

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Yeah, it was just a joke :) Btw, why you didn't put GGOH in it too, to make it more "complete". Did you considerate it and discarded the idea for some reason?

How much GGOH is in mk4, and how much would be the dose of mk4 to achieve 30μM of GGOH?

I did consider adding GGOH, but so far have not been able to find a vendor that can provide pure bulk amounts. I'll keep searching though as GGOH has a lot of studies behind it for various other benefits. The thing is though, GGOH is a precursor to squalene so using squalene probably accomplishes what GGOH would do. As far as the the dose required to reach 30uM/L, basically GGOH and POH have almost the same molar mass and the doses should be about the same. The first study with vitamin K2 (MK-4) used a HED of about 1mg/kg to replicate the 30uM in vitro concentration. I even sent them an email about it and the authors responses saying that indeed the 1mg/kg human dose should acheve 30uM/L vitamin K2 in tissues and that is how they chose the in vivo rat dose (~7mg/kg) Now, given that only a portion of the vitamin K2 molecule is actually GGOH (and taking into account the molar mass of the quinone portion and GGOH prtion) it means of those 30uM/L concentration vitamin K2 about 66% is GGOH. So, the effective concentration of GGOH in the vitamin K2 study was about 20uM/L, assuming it was only GGOH that had T boosting effects as the second study with GGOH and POH actually claims. Just to make sure, I went with 100mg per dose for both POH and squalene as it would achieve 30uM/L as the second study with GGOH and POH found 30uM/L to be optimal.
 

PUTFOT

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No side effects. It improved weight lifting capacity and mood. I am not sure if this is due to the T boost or the dopaminergic effects squalene showed in one study.
Going from 980 to 1250 should probably have some very significant effects. How much did your lifts go up?

Does this supplement increase anabolic to androgenic ratio or keep it the same because of t>dht conversion?
 

TubZy

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Going from 980 to 1250 should probably have some very significant effects. How much did your lifts go up?

Does this supplement increase anabolic to androgenic ratio or keep it the same because of t>dht conversion?

DHT probably went up as gonadin was shown to be anti estrogenic so estrogen wouldn't rise and DHT most likely will go up when free T does as that would be the only open pathway.
 

haidut

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How much were you taking, how (orally , topically (on scortum?)) and for how long?

The same dose as in Gonadin, for a few weeks. I have not tried phytol on its own yet but that would be the next experiment.
 

sladerunner69

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dude, I love you, no homo:)...but seriously I'm extremely excited! I respond very well to K2 (it shoots my libido up big time) so this is very interesting to me and not only that but it can increase the function of the gonads and provide skin and hair benefits? No brainer...ordered.

I'll log it when I get it.

And no DMSO :D


Wow you ARE a total homo-sapien!!

I just submitted my order for a case of 20. Why so many? I have been orderring in bulk for when the corrupt feds come for my authentic meds.

Question: Are you still using selsun blue for selenium on the scalp?
 

haidut

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thyrulian

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Not directly. One of them is dopaminergic, anti-serotonin, anti-cortisol, and a powerful HDAC inhibitor (anti-cancer). The dopamine and anti-cortisol effects may lead to improved steroid profile though. The other one is an electron withdrawing agent and it is sold as a drug for improving heart function and metabolism in some countries. It is not related to Mildronate though.
Trimetazidine maybe?
 
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