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CortiNon - Liquid Progesterone/DHEA Mix

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, Dec 10, 2017.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    This product does not really need any introduction to anybody familiar with Peat's work. I have wanted to release it for a long time but over the last few months the studies I found related to the anabolic and anticatabolic effects of progesterone, combined with the fact that Peat has told quite a few people over email that he used this combination of steroids, convinced me that it is worth it.
    Unlike other products, there won't be as many references listed in support of this product but I think even the few ones below are enough to give an idea about its properties.
    The name CortiNon was coined due to the known main effects of both progesterone and DHEA - i.e. antagonism to cortisol, both at the receptor level (progesterone) and functionally (progesterone & DHEA).

    The units listed on the label are just for measurement purposes. They do not indicate suggested or optimal dose. Please note that similar to the products sold by companies like BluePeptides, this product is for lab/research use only. The product can be ordered from the link below:
    www.idealabsdc.com/lab

    *******************************************************************************
    CortiNon is a combination of the steroids progesterone and DHEA, which have a number of desirable properties as demonstrated by numerous studies - i.e. anti-glucocorticoid, anti-inflammatory, anti-endotoxin, anti-viral, anti-mutagenic, antimicrobial, anti-cancer, anxiolytic, antidepressant, and generally anti-aging.

    Serving size: 4 drops
    Servings per container: about 90
    Each serving contains the following ingredients:

    Progesterone: 5mg
    DHEA: 5mg

    Other ingredients: SFA esters, ethanol
    *******************************************************************************

    References:

    Anti-Catabolic / Myotrophic / Androgenic

    1. Progesterone
    The Anti-cortisol Mechanism Of Progesterone
    The Anabolic Effects Of Progesterone
    Progesterone Is Androgenic
    Progesterone Is As Anabolic For Muscle As Testosterone (in Women)

    2. DHEA
    DHEA, In Low Doses, Directly Inhibits Cortisol Synthesis
    DHEA Enhances Cortisol Degradation
    DHEA Has Very Similar Anabolic Activity To DHT
    DHEA, a selective glucocorticoid receptor antagonist: its role in immune system regulation and metabolism. - PubMed - NCBI
    Low-dose DHEA Inhibits Aromatase By 35% And Endotoxin Blocks That Effect

    3. Combination
    The Requirements For An Optimal Anticatabolic / Anabolic Substance (progesterone + DHEA)
    Ray Peat Email Advice Depository
    6-Ketoprogesterone and its biological actions. - PubMed - NCBI
    "...The results are summarized in Table 6. The extracts of the samples, in which progesterone and dehydroepiandrosterone were used as substrate resulted in the strongest hypertrophy of the preputial gland and had the strongest myotrophic action of all. Both of the actions of the products which come from the incubation of the villus with 17(a)-hydroxyprogesterone were much weaker."
     
  2. milk_lover

    milk_lover Member

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    Thanks man! This combination of steroids (progesterone+DHEA) has been so much effective at negating work-related stress that I can't help but wonder that men need progesterone just like women. I take at least 2 drops of Progestene (3.33 mg progesterone) and one drop Pansterone (1.25 mg DHEA/preg) almost daily, so this new product I think will be more practical for me. How do you feel haidut after you take some of this product?
     
  3. aguilaroja

    aguilaroja Member

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    Was the name CushingQuashing too many syllables ? :-}
     
  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Proper male sexual function absolutely requires progesterone as this is the steroid that is the main endogenous antagonist to cortisol at the "receptor" level. You can have high T levels but if cortisol is also high, then T will not only go towards estrogen due to high aromatase activity, but it will also not do much for sexual activity. And of course, brain function cannot be optimal without progesterone. Up until the mid-teens males and females produce equal amount of progesterone. Here are some things to consider.
    Does male sexual behavior require progesterone? - PubMed - NCBI
    Progesterone reduces erectile dysfunction in sleep-deprived spontaneously hypertensive rats
    Influence of progesterone on sexual performance in male rats. - PubMed - NCBI
    http://www.bio.utexas.edu/faculty/lizard/public/RegulationOfMaleSexual.pdf

    I get the typical anti-cortisol effects - quick reduction of belly area within 30min of using, relaxation but no sedation (possible due to DHEA balancing the sedation of progesterone), improved muscle tone, reduced hunger and ability to go longer without food, and of course higher temps.
     
  5. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Yes, but I like it anyways :):
    I would have gone with CortiBan but there is unfortunately a (defunct) vitamin product which used the same name so I did not want our to get confused with it. If you have other suggestions I am all ears though.
     
  6. Koveras

    Koveras Member

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    It seems that dopamine exerts some of it's pro-libido effects through the progesterone receptor as well.

    Not sure about the use of the word 'unoccupied' receptor in the last study here.

    Reproduction. 2001 Dec;122(6):847-55.
    Ligand-independent activation of progestin receptors: relevance for female sexual behaviour.
    Auger AP1.
    Traditionally, steroid receptors were believed to be activated only by ligand binding; however, recent studies indicate that steroid receptors can also be activated by mechanisms that do not require ligand, referred to as ligand-independent activation. Specifically, progestin receptors can be activated in vitro and in vivo after treatment with neurotransmitters, such as dopamine, in the absence of progesterone. Furthermore, mating-related stimuli can also lead to ligand-independent activation of progestin receptors in female rat brain. This finding indicates that environmental stimuli can influence steroid receptor-dependent processes in the absence of circulating hormone. This review focuses on studies indicating that progestin receptors can be activated in the absence of progesterone to influence neuronal response and sexual behaviour in rodents.

    Science. 1994 Aug 26;265(5176):1246-9.
    Convergent pathways for steroid hormone- and neurotransmitter-induced rat sexual behavior.
    Mani SK1, Allen JM, Clark JH, Blaustein JD, O'Malley BW.
    Estrogen and progesterone modulate gene expression in rodents by activation of intracellular receptors in the hypothalamus, which regulate neuronal networks that control female sexual behavior. However, the neurotransmitter dopamine has been shown to activate certain steroid receptors in a ligand-independent manner. A dopamine receptor stimulant and a D1 receptor agonist, but not a D2 receptor agonist, mimicked the effects of progesterone in facilitating sexual behavior in female rats. The facilitory effect of the neurotransmitter was blocked by progesterone receptor antagonists, a D1 receptor antagonist, or antisense oligonucleotides to the progesterone receptor. The results suggest that in rodents neurotransmitters may regulate in vivo gene expression and behavior by means of cross-talk with steroid receptors in the brain.

    Mol Endocrinol. 1996 Dec;10(12):1728-37.
    Dopamine requires the unoccupied progesterone receptor to induce sexual behavior in mice.
    Mani SK1, Allen JM, Lydon JP, Mulac-Jericevic B, Blaustein JD, DeMayo FJ, Conneely O, O'Malley BW.
    Using the recently generated mutant mice strain (PRKO) carrying a null mutation for the progesterone receptor (PR) gene by gene targeting, we examined the critical role of PR as a coordinator of key regulatory events involved in the steroid hormone and dopamine-facilitated sexual behavior in female mice. In vitro one-point binding analyses of estradiol benzoate (EB)-induced cellular PRs and immunohistochemistry of PR in the mediobasal hypothalamus demonstrated a reduction in binding in the homozygous females, equivalent to background levels seen in EB-unresponsive tissue. The biochemical findings correlated well with the behavioral observations, with the wild type females exhibiting high levels of lordosis, while the homozygous females showed minimal lordosis in response to mating by male mice. As a critical validation of our earlier studies on ligand-independent activation of PRs by dopamine, we examined the facilitation of sexual behavior by a dopamine agonist in the null mutants. Wild type females having the full complement of PRs exhibited high levels of lordosis, while the homozygous females showed minimal lordosis in response to dopamine. To determine whether this reduced response was due to a general lack of ability to express lordosis, mice were treated with another neurotransmitter, serotonin. No significant difference in the serotonin-facilitated lordosis response was observed between the wild type and the homozygous females. We conclude that multiple signal transduction pathways coexist in the neuroendocrine system for reproductive behavior, with PR acting as a transcriptional mediator for dopamine, as well as progesterone, to achieve integration of neural communication in the central nervous system.
     
  7. ubiety

    ubiety Member

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    Ordered. What's the best time of day to take this - am, pm, divided between both? I sleep fine on Progestene before bed, but don't know about DHEA. I am subject to insomnia.
     
  8. Warrior_

    Warrior_ Member

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    [QUOTE="Haidut
    I get the typical anti-cortisol effects - quick reduction of belly area within 30min of using, relaxation but no sedation (possible due to DHEA balancing the sedation of progesterone), improved muscle tone, reduced hunger and ability to go longer without food, and of course higher temps.[/QUOTE]

    I get similar effects combining androsterone (4 drops) and pansterone (4 drops) in the morning, with the difference that rather relaxation I feel more focused, alert, and aggressive. All other points (increased muscle tone, reduced hunger, leaning out, higher temps etc.) are the same.

    However I am interested in this new product too
     
  9. Sheik

    Sheik Member

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    Is this vehicle as effective as vitamin E?
     
  10. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    How interesting! Thanks so much.
    So, dopamine is an endogenous ligand for PR? No wonder Peat likes both and has been writing about them for so long. It would also explain why dopamine agonists are useful for breast cancer and other hyperestrogenic conditions like gyno. I wonder if serotonin is a ligan for the estrogen and cortisol receptors... Do you have anything on that?
     
  11. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I don't think it causes insomnia, at least not in my case. It is less sedating than pure progesterone though. So, I think it can be taken at any time but as @Koveras said is progesterone and dopamine upregulate each other's function and this combination is dopaminergic then it may be best to take in the morning.
     
  12. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Great, thanks for sharing. Have you done any labs while taking androsterone and Pansterone?
     
  13. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    The studies I have seen with the SFA ester were specifically on transdermal absorption of progesterone and it was as effective as DMSO. I don't think it has the steroid potentiating effects of DMSO, but it should give better absorption than vitamin E (which has not been tested formally bu Peat claims is about 25%).
     
  14. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    This is one of the things I find hard to see as objective marker, increased hunger is a sign of increased metabolism but increased hunger is a sign of higher cortisol. Same when you said feeling cold means one has higher temperature but people reported the opposite more often, or faster pulse may be cause by improved thyroid or stress hormones.

    Out of curiosity why is progesterone for lab research while pregnenolone and dhea are not?
     
  15. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    The effects of cortisol could go either way. It's typical effect is usually suppression of hunger due to it elevating blood sugar. As far as temps, when I say feeling cold I mean extremities not core temps, which as you noted are usually higher when somebody feels cold.
    The difference in status is due to the fact that progesterone is not really a dietary supplement under FDA regulations (unlike pregnenolone and DHEA). In some states there has even been enforcement against companies selling progesterone. It happened at the state level, but still the legal rationale given was that progesterone is a steroid with dangerous health effects. California is one such state.
     
  16. dand

    dand Member

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    Damn Californians :). I was under the impression that pregnenolone mostly metabolized into progesterone. Like as much as 80%. How distinct are the effects from pansterone and CortiNon? Seems like they would be very similar.
     
  17. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Personally, I find Pansterone to be much more androgenic and muscle enhancing, while CortiNon to be mostly anti-catabolic and some mental benefits as well. CortiNon shrinks my belly pretty quickly when I am stressed while Pansterone makes me look buff.
     
  18. Jez

    Jez Member

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    A quick question for females @haidut With progest-e there is that initial phase of higher doses that they say has to be done to avoid aromatization of progesterone to estro. What would happen with the smaller doses of this product for girls if not currently taking a progesterone product, would it be fine to just use small doses or would they have to do the initial doses of plain progest-e for instance and then continue with this product? Thanks mate. Looks like another cracking product!
     
  19. dand

    dand Member

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    Nice :).
    Nice. Thanks. Looking forward to giving it a shot
     
  20. RedMars

    RedMars Member

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    Haidut I’m a little confused on how lowering cortisol has made it easier for you to go for a while without food. Wouldn’t lowering cortisol limit gluconeogenesis from muscle tissue making you burn glycogen faster and then you’d get hungry and tired more quickly?

    I know there are various complicated pathways for glucose and cortisol but I guess I’m asking if you’re warmer and with lower cortisol, what are you burning for energy and where is it coming from?
     
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