My Starch Free And Zero Fiber Experiment

[jaywills]

This is great @Hans. Really enjoyed your article, like the majority you put out, plus this log.

I am following with much interest.

I just wondered if you are eating any plain table sugar? Do you mix this in with milk?

Equally to anyone trying this I've been warming up my milk and drinking it hot (for me this is much more satiating than drinking milk cold). Plus doing so extends the meal for 20 mins or so and gives your body a chance to recognize calories are coming in.

Cheers
J

 

[Hans]

This is great @Hans. Really enjoyed your article, like the majority you put out, plus this log.

I am following with much interest.

I just wondered if you are eating any plain table sugar? Do you mix this in with milk?

Equally to anyone trying this I've been warming up my milk and drinking it hot (for me this is much more satiating than drinking milk cold). Plus doing so extends the meal for 20 mins or so and gives your body a chance to recognize calories are coming in.

Cheers
J

Glad you enjoyed it.
Yes I still have white sugar in my coffee. Sometimes I drink it just with milk, sometimes with sugar. It depends on my preference at that time.

 

[Adrienlcrx]

Hi Hans! Do you use a juice extractor for fresh fruits juice? Can you advise a good and convenient model maybe?
I hesitate between models right now

 

[ursidae]

I don't know either to be honest... been dealing with a host of problems for the past 10 years: white pustules/cystic breakouts on face and back/some kind of eczema or mysterious rash. Some of it resembles keratosis pilaris as I have build up of keratin which then becomes infected. Been racking my brain the last years trying to figure out if my breakouts are bacterial, fungal, demodex, some other weird protozoan...

Sunlight, urea and niacinamide helps me as well. Antibiotics from doctor makes things worse, I believe I might have picked up some nasty strain of MRSA.

I've given up treating this solely through diet and nutrition. Have seen promising results lately from using iodine to decolonize nostrils + iodine mouthwash + iodine everywhere basically + skincare routine with azelaic acid, benzoyl peroxide and niacinamide. Will dabble with more natural antibiotics in the future.



Been doing zero starch now and experimenting with olive leaf extract lately and holy ***t is this a dopaminergic combo. I get the same euphoric, zen like state that antibiotics produce but it's even more intense. Couple hours later I get die-off symptoms so it's probably effective at cleaning out the gut. Lots of studies on olive leaf:

Oleuropein suppresses LPS-induced inflammatory responses in RAW 264.7 cell and zebrafish - PubMed
https://www.researchgate.net/public...and_alleviates_inflammatory_responses_in_mice

What areas of the face is it on, does it dominate one side more and what is the pattern of the breakouts (random distribution/lines/circles). Is there an itch
Is the sebum waxy or free flowing?

 

[Hans]

Hi Hans! Do you use a juice extractor for fresh fruits juice? Can you advise a good and convenient model maybe?
I hesitate between models right now

I use a standard manual device that you squeeze the oranges into. Not sure what it's called, but nothing fancy. For juicing other fruit in general, I'd go with a masticating one.

 

[Adrienlcrx]

Thanks !

 

[Sven90]

Hey Hans,
I do not want to take over your thread. However, I have very good Experience with a starch free approach. Following this diet for a very long time. From time to time, like every 2 Weeks, I have a cheat meal to load more glycogen. Like a big bowl of rice, sushi...

Its very easy for me to stay in shape without starches!

 

[Hans]

Hey Hans,
I do not want to take over your thread. However, I have very good Experience with a starch free approach. Following this diet for a very long time. From time to time, like every 2 Weeks, I have a cheat meal to load more glycogen. Like a big bowl of rice, sushi...

Its very easy for me to stay in shape without starches!

Great man, glad it's been working for you for so long. Do you feel like your glycogen gets low and that's why you refeed? Or is it just that you crave starches every so often?
I'm just wondering as I'm very skeptical about this "starches are needed for glycogen" theory. It's shown that people who are keto-adapted actually have full glycogen stores and don't need starches to replenish them. Carbs can enter muscle and liver cells via insulin-independent pathways, such as GLUT1, GLUT2, GLUT5, etc. The muscles and liver can take up glucose and fructose just fine without insulin. Insulin isn't needed to shuttle glucose into cells, except for large boluses ofc.

What does your diet and macros look like?

 

[Cloudhands]

I drink either low fat or skim because I limit fat intake to make more space for carbs. Its UHT milk so I keep it at room temp. I prefer warmer milk like room temp especially in winter.
I always make my own juice, I don't trust the stuff in the shop.

What brand of uht do u go with? I'm having trouble finding good results on google

 

[Hans]

What brand of uht do u go with? I'm having trouble finding good results on google

Just a local brand. We're pretty limited here in SA with our options.

 

[Vegancrossfit]

This should be renamed “the starch free thread for happy people”

meal 1+3: fruits, juice+collagen
meal 2+4: fatty meats, thoroughly cooked leafy greens

zero cravings, normal ‘circadian’ hunger, no energy rollercoasters, great sleep, skin, focus, everything. It was my birthday this week and I got a box of treats ha. Didn’t even enjoy the sugary stuff. Birthday hot wings though, now that was good.

 

[Cameron]

My experience is great mental energy with zero starch meats fruits fruit juice milk honey. Rice seems to add more physical strength and better fullness. Not sure which is best at this point both are clearly different. I think low starch low endotoxin is overall beneficial in higher androgens but one starch cheat meal a week seems to help “refeed” and keep the others benefits of zero starch

 

[gately]

Going to try zero starch for a spell. I have absolutely no digestive issues, which believe me I am super grateful for, because I had knives in my belly for years (completely resolved after killing off H. Pylori monster and healing gastritis). But, I do get joint pain and skin rashes, plus cold-like symptoms a few times a week, and I'm going to see if starch is the culprit. Exciting times.

What method did you use to kill H. Pylori?

 

[Sven90]

Great man, glad it's been working for you for so long. Do you feel like your glycogen gets low and that's why you refeed? Or is it just that you crave starches every so often?
I'm just wondering as I'm very skeptical about this "starches are needed for glycogen" theory. It's shown that people who are keto-adapted actually have full glycogen stores and don't need starches to replenish them. Carbs can enter muscle and liver cells via insulin-independent pathways, such as GLUT1, GLUT2, GLUT5, etc. The muscles and liver can take up glucose and fructose just fine without insulin. Insulin isn't needed to shuttle glucose into cells, except for large boluses ofc.

What does your diet and macros look like?

Hey Hans

I do not crave starches at all. I don't have a drop in performance in training either.
When I go out to eat with friends, then I like to eat sushi or rice therefore I eat starch every two weeks.

I haven't eaten starch on a regular basis in years.

For now my plan looks like this:

Meal 1: 5 Eggs, 200 calories from fruit (Melon, Mango etc.)
Meal 2: 550 calories Chocolate Bar, 15 gr Collagen in Coffee
Meal 3: 550 calories Chocolate Bar, 250 gr Beef Steak
Before Bed: One Piece of Fruit

+ 30 gr. EAA
+ Carrots as many as I like

Thats my baseline... Depending on mood and calories I drink X Liters of Milk throughout the day

2 Chocolate Bars a day... sounds crazy, but I am eating this way for a while now.

A week ago I did a comprehensive blood test with more than 30 Biomarkers (thyroid, lipids, liver etc.) All values were okay or very good, not one was outside the norm

 

[Uselis]

For those who've been starch free in your opinion when people craving starch does it mean:

a) Salt
b) Nutrient dense calories
c) Whatever X vitamin/mineral (I suspect for me it's B3 since I don't eat meat and without potatoes my diet has like 50% of RDA).

I am asking because on it's own starch is definitely not appealing nor tasty (for me at least) so whole logic of craving starch seems kind of odd.

 

[gately]

Hey Hans

I do not crave starches at all. I don't have a drop in performance in training either.
When I go out to eat with friends, then I like to eat sushi or rice therefore I eat starch every two weeks.

I haven't eaten starch on a regular basis in years.

For now my plan looks like this:

Meal 1: 5 Eggs, 200 calories from fruit (Melon, Mango etc.)
Meal 2: 550 calories Chocolate Bar, 15 gr Collagen in Coffee
Meal 3: 550 calories Chocolate Bar, 250 gr Beef Steak
Before Bed: One Piece of Fruit

+ 30 gr. EAA
+ Carrots as many as I like

Thats my baseline... Depending on mood and calories I drink X Liters of Milk throughout the day

2 Chocolate Bars a day... sounds crazy, but I am eating this way for a while now.

A week ago I did a comprehensive blood test with more than 30 Biomarkers (thyroid, lipids, liver etc.) All values were okay or very good, not one was outside the norm

What chocolate bar do you typically eat? I'm just curious, because I'd like to see the ingrinets and nutritional profile. Also do you mind me asking how old you are? Did you have any health issues before you started eating this way? Any current health issues, from skin to mental? Any supplements at all? I'm crazy intrigued by your diet. Thanks.

 

[Hans]

Hey Hans

I do not crave starches at all. I don't have a drop in performance in training either.
When I go out to eat with friends, then I like to eat sushi or rice therefore I eat starch every two weeks.

I haven't eaten starch on a regular basis in years.

For now my plan looks like this:

Meal 1: 5 Eggs, 200 calories from fruit (Melon, Mango etc.)
Meal 2: 550 calories Chocolate Bar, 15 gr Collagen in Coffee
Meal 3: 550 calories Chocolate Bar, 250 gr Beef Steak
Before Bed: One Piece of Fruit

+ 30 gr. EAA
+ Carrots as many as I like

Thats my baseline... Depending on mood and calories I drink X Liters of Milk throughout the day

2 Chocolate Bars a day... sounds crazy, but I am eating this way for a while now.

A week ago I did a comprehensive blood test with more than 30 Biomarkers (thyroid, lipids, liver etc.) All values were okay or very good, not one was outside the norm

Very nice, thanks for sharing.
Did you test for micros and hormones, such as DHEA, testosterone, DHT, etc?

 

[Sven90]

What chocolate bar do you typically eat? I'm just curious, because I'd like to see the ingrinets and nutritional profile. Also do you mind me asking how old you are? Did you have any health issues before you started eating this way? Any current health issues, from skin to mental? Any supplements at all? I'm crazy intrigued by your diet. Thanks.

Hello

I am 30 years old. I do not have any health issues. I am interested in Fitness / Bodybuilding, that is why I do bloodtests every 6 months.
I started with "peating" because I felt not good to eat lots of rice, chicken, greens ("Bodybuilding food")
My body craves fruit, whole eggs, steak, chocolate. That is why I switched to Ray Peat...

Why do I eat so much chocolate? It is the only food item which I cannot do without. Everytime I started a strict diet I failed, because of chocolate.
Why should I eat "healthy" fats if I can eat chocolate on a regular basis. If I eat one or two chocolate bars a day, I dont crave anything else. I do not binge, I do not cheat. As Stan Efferding always promotes: "The best diet is, that you can stick to"

I would also like to eat more fruit. But this doesn't work. I only like very ripe fruits such as Mango, Melon and bananas.
In Germany it is difficult to get much ripe fruit, especially in winter. Furthermore, I travel a lot, which makes eating that much more difficult. You can always find a bar of chocolate. And it is certainly better to eat a bar of chocolate than a sandwich.

Usually, I eat chocolate which only has three ingredients: Sugar, Cocoa mass and Cocoa butter.

 

[Sven90]

Very nice, thanks for sharing.
Did you test for micros and hormones, such as DHEA, testosterone, DHT, etc?

This time I tested testosterone, free testosterone and Estrogen, SHBG. I should do DHEA and DHT next time.

Testosterone and free Test were on the upper range. The others were in normal range.

I tested as well all lipids, liver, kidney Biomarkers as well as Potassium and Salt. All in range

 

[opson123]

Hello

I am 30 years old. I do not have any health issues. I am interested in Fitness / Bodybuilding, that is why I do bloodtests every 6 months.
I started with "peating" because I felt not good to eat lots of rice, chicken, greens ("Bodybuilding food")
My body craves fruit, whole eggs, steak, chocolate. That is why I switched to Ray Peat...

Why do I eat so much chocolate? It is the only food item which I cannot do without. Everytime I started a strict diet I failed, because of chocolate.
Why should I eat "healthy" fats if I can eat chocolate on a regular basis. If I eat one or two chocolate bars a day, I dont crave anything else. I do not binge, I do not cheat. As Stan Efferding always promotes: "The best diet is, that you can stick to"

I would also like to eat more fruit. But this doesn't work. I only like very ripe fruits such as Mango, Melon and bananas.
In Germany it is difficult to get much ripe fruit, especially in winter. Furthermore, I travel a lot, which makes eating that much more difficult. You can always find a bar of chocolate. And it is certainly better to eat a bar of chocolate than a sandwich.

Usually, I eat chocolate which only has three ingredients: Sugar, Cocoa mass and Cocoa butter.

What kind of chocolate you eat? Those ingredients are often found in dark chocolate bars so you probably eat those? Lindt?

Milk chocolate was my only food for 2 years. My digestion was (still is) really bad and milk chocolate was the only food that didn't wreck my gut that badly. A boring diet though, eating chocolate every day made me gag sometimes.