RP Email Advice Comment: Safe Fiber

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raypeatclips

raypeatclips

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"And when he came to the US and saw that people were interpreting it as oat fiber, oat bran, and various other grain fibers, a few people outside of the US did research showing that, in fact, those increase cancer incidences."

I wonder if that's raw or undercooked oat fiber, specifically, that has the correlation with increased cancer incidences. I suppose if you can find a way to have good, frequent bowel movements, that may be the priority over whether it's ideal fiber.

I've seen him say (from memory) cooking oats longer than you are supposed to might make it more nutritious.
 
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raypeatclips

raypeatclips

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@schultz Thank you so much for those quotes. My takeaway points from that are:

1. Peat thinks fiber is important and beneficial for the bowel, cleans the intestine.
2. He is very against synthetic and added fiber's such as gums and mentions grain fiber's (flax etc) I assume he doesn't mind more natural fibres such as vegetables if tolerated, he didn't mention them so assume they are ok.
3. Eating fat can turn negative fiber's into positive ones, so having some added far every meal would be beneficial.
4. High calcium ratio important for helping with endotoxin, starch and fiber's.


From this I am going to experiment with more vegetable and fruit based fiber's and have some butter/ coconut oil every meal.
 

schultz

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@schultz Thank you so much for those quotes. My takeaway points from that are:

1. Peat thinks fiber is important and beneficial for the bowel, cleans the intestine.
2. He is very against synthetic and added fiber's such as gums and mentions grain fiber's (flax etc) I assume he doesn't mind more natural fibres such as vegetables if tolerated, he didn't mention them so assume they are ok.
3. Eating fat can turn negative fiber's into positive ones, so having some added far every meal would be beneficial.
4. High calcium ratio important for helping with endotoxin, starch and fiber's.


From this I am going to experiment with more vegetable and fruit based fiber's and have some butter/ coconut oil every meal.

I definitely think it's good to experiment with what works for you. Ray has said regarding some foods is that they can effect people in different ways. I am not sure he directly said this - but I think he insinuated it - that salads could have health benefits for people by acting essentially like a laxative. Though he probably thinks the carrot is an easier way to accomplish that. I also just remembered in a recent kmud he was saying something about potatoes and how they can be problematic for people with compromised digestion. I guess people who have sluggish bowels from being hypothyroid or something. Yet in the quotes I mentioned earlier in the thread he talks positively about potatoes in regards to gut health. So it depends on the person and the state of health they are currently in.

I think your 4 points are pretty solid. You could probably add a few more nutrients to that 4th point. Also, I think orange juice lowers endotoxin: Orange juice neutralizes the proinflammatory effect of a high-fat, high-carbohydrate meal and prevents endotoxin increase and Toll-like receptor ex... - PubMed - NCBI
 

paymanz

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Ray Peat Email Advice Depository


"In general, cellulose fibers do protect against bowel cancer, but a few plant fibers that contain lignin or that are fermentable increase cancer. Wheat bran is the only common cereal fiber that’s protective."

-ray peat
 
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Lord Cola

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Does anybody have the source of the quote below?
RAY PEAT: "Yes, there are some studies that show that the toxic effect of these fibers that can cause anxiety, aggression and bowel cancer, fats defend against those processes by probably suppressing bacterial growth, and the best fats at suppressing bacterial and fungal growth in the intestine are the saturated fats, so butter and coconut oil for example are protective against the fibers, so it's important to include some of those in your daily intake. And if you get enough protein 80 to 100 calories or more – 80 to 100 grams per day or more, and if you consider the importance of fat and the essentiality of protein, then that leaves you only a certain amount for carbohydrate and that I think is where the fruit sugar and other sugars are a safe bet even if all the rest of your calories are in the form of fruit and other sugars I think that's safe as long as you're getting your saturated fat and protein."
 

Mauritio

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"And when he came to the US and saw that people were interpreting it as oat fiber, oat bran, and various other grain fibers, a few people outside of the US did research showing that, in fact, those increase cancer incidences."

I wonder if that's raw or undercooked oat fiber, specifically, that has the correlation with increased cancer incidences. I suppose if you can find a way to have good, frequent bowel movements, that may be the priority over whether it's ideal fiber.
If it works, it works. And if oat bran helps you to keep a fast transit time then I'm sure the pros outweigh the cons , as it helps to lower estrogen and endotoxin :)
 

SamYo123

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If it works, it works. And if oat bran helps you to keep a fast transit time then I'm sure the pros outweigh the cons , as it helps to lower estrogen and endotoxin :)
What if you get gas from oats but a faster transit time?
 

Mauritio

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He has talked about fiber a bit on the podcasts. Here is one from Politics and Science (the best Peat podcast).

JOHN BURKHAUSEN: I see. As long as we’re on the subject of digestion, how important is it that people have regular bowl movements?

RAY PEAT: I think like the person who popularized fiber 40, 50 years ago in the US, was studying the African relative freedom from bowel problems, cancer, and he saw that they typically would have three bowel movements a day and that they ate lots of potatoes, that it was the fiber in the potato stimulating the intestine that seemed to protect their bowl. So he published these about the benefits of fiber and the cereal industry in the US started selling oat bran as the preventive of colon cancer, which caught on in the 70s, but then in the 80's some Australians tested oat bran diets on animals and found that it promoted – increased the incidence of bowel cancer apparently by the nature of the breakdown products.

JOHN BURKHAUSEN: Yeah. I don’t think that knowledge has ever gotten around.

RAY PEAT: Not very well. But, in general, fiber does clean the intestine and keeping it moving lowers the estrogen re-absorption. The bile puts out – tries to get rid of toxic materials, including the estrogen. And if you don’t have a regular movement through the intestine, a lot of that gets recycled, reabsorbed and raises your general exposure to toxins, including estrogen.


Here is another quote from a different podcast:

RAY PEAT: Calcium, if you have a high ratio of calcium to phosphate, calcium happens to suppress the fermentation of fiber and starch in the intestine, so high calcium intake will actually reduce the production of the endotoxin as well as reducing the consequences of your reaction to the endotoxin. The saturated fats – having some fat in your food does various things that can be helpful. There is a germicidal effect of the fatty acids that helps to keep the intestine sterile and you should be able to absorb your fat by roughly half to two-thirds of the way down your small intestine where it’s still sterile. But if you eat fat with a fiber, the fat helps to suppress the bacteria and it can help the fiber persist and go all the way through your intestine. So it can turn what would be a harmful fiber supporting endotoxin, it can turn it into a useful sort of a bowel stimulating bulk-former."

And notice in this quote how he talks about fat:

RAY PEAT: "Yes, there are some studies that show that the toxic effect of these fibers that can cause anxiety, aggression and bowel cancer, fats defend against those processes by probably suppressing bacterial growth, and the best fats at suppressing bacterial and fungal growth in the intestine are the saturated fats, so butter and coconut oil for example are protective against the fibers, so it's important to include some of those in your daily intake. And if you get enough protein 80 to 100 calories or more – 80 to 100 grams per day or more, and if you consider the importance of fat and the essentiality of protein, then that leaves you only a certain amount for carbohydrate and that I think is where the fruit sugar and other sugars are a safe bet even if all the rest of your calories are in the form of fruit and other sugars I think that's safe as long as you're getting your saturated fat and protein."

And another...

RAY PEAT:
Starches and indigestible fibers have been tested on various animals, from horses to rats and practically all of the fibers that are used as food additives carrageenan and guar gum, various other gums, oat bran and even some of the semi-synthetic things, Metamucil, agar and psyllium, all have been identified as carcinogens for the intestine and possibly other organs and getting those out quickly before they support bacterial growth...

SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: ... and ferment.

RAY PEAT:
Yeah. The fermentative bacteria are known to increase the serotonin and lactic acid production.

SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And the endotoxin that we have mentioned.

RAY PEAT: Yeah. There’s a back and forth increase of endotoxin by the serotonin and vice versa.

Later in the same podcast:

RAY PEAT: Denis Burkitt, who sort of started the fiber fad about 30 years ago when he discovered that Africans didn’t have a very high incidence of bowel and liver cancer and that they tended to have three bowel movements per day, where Americans are more likely to have one or fewer, and he said that he thought fiber prevented the retention of the carcinogenic toxins, but he was talking primarily about potatoes. And when he came to the US and saw that people were interpreting it as oat fiber, oat bran, and various other grain fibers, a few people outside of the US did research showing that, in fact, those increase cancer incidences.

Last one (promise)

CALLER: OK and so like the potato skin, obviously that is not digestible so that’s gonna probably sit in the intestine and feed bacteria or is that going to pass through too?

RAY PEAT: No, cellulose is a very harmless fiber because bacteria generally can't break it down. Only a few types of bacteria can attack cellulose so it passes through just as bulky fiber. But the potato family, like the tomatoes, the whole family includes chemicals that are highly allergenic, so if you are allergic to tomatoes you are likely to have some reaction to chillies, eggplants and ray peat: potatoes too.

CALLER: So are you saying the whole potato in general or the skin itself.

RAY PEAT: The skin has the most allergens.

CALLER: OK, so it is a good idea to peel that then, more than likely?

RAY PEAT: Yeah.

Great write up!
 

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