Why Does Starch Make Me Extremely Sick?

[lindsay]

@whodathunkit no added fat is what I'm doing, but I'm planning to keep it up for at least 3 more weeks if not longer.. I do think I have excess bacteria in my small intestine but interestingly it seems like not adding fat either speeds digestion or helps with blood sugar issues in such a way that they aren't able to feed on the starch so much. I'm still a little wary of probiotics but I might add saurkraut and/or (fat free) kefir in a week or two and see what happens

I'd love to hear how you continue on this!! I cannot imagine my life without fat. Last time I tried high carb/starch and low fat, I got appendicitis. It was a long time coming, but I've been afraid of starch since then and only eat it in small small doses. And usually take cascara following to make sure it gets out of the system.

But I'd love to give the high carb thing a try again in the future! Maybe when I have antibiotics on hand in case it goes wrong. Also, don't forget, you can probably throw in some gelatin for protein, since it's fat free and good for the gut :)

 

[whodathunkit]

@artist, you might try some powdered raw potato starch (sold in bags by Bob's Red Mill). RPS is "resistant" to digestion so it doesn't get fermented in the small intestine where more easily fermented fiber and sugars can overfeed bacteria and help cause SIBO. RPS is so resistant to fermentation that it won't take someone out of ketosis at amounts of 2-3 tbsp at a time. RPS is supposed to be able to make its way into the large intestine where it can feed the good guys back in there. I can't testify as to the actual truth of that, but I can testify that RPS helped me a lot in the beginning of my gut journey. I used it regularly for several months. I still use it very occasionally, but like with most good interventions, it's not something you should need as a regular thing in the long term.

It also was helpful in quelling some of my food cravings.

If you decide to try it, be aware some people do get sides from it. Gas or bloating, sometimes anxiety, even immune issues. I think it all depends on the composition of your gut bacteria and how healthy you are when you start it. It can be pretty potent. I decided to try it because IMO the good guys in there should be given the chance to counterbalance the bad, and if you don't feed them, the balance just goes more out of whack. The bad guys seem to have a leg up anyway when it comes to survival in less than optimal conditions. YMMV.

 

[whodathunkit]

Last time I tried high carb/starch and low fat, I got appendicitis.

Jeez, sorry to hear that! What do you think caused it to affect your appendix? Overload of toxins released from fat mobilization, maybe? Yikes. I'd be nervous about low fat if I was you, too.

I've had a lot of trouble with detox in my weight loss/clean health journey in the last 1.5 years, but I do strongly feel that VLF has been the tipping point in allowing my liver to finally clean itself up real good. I only started experimenting with it six months ago, and by the time I worked up the courage to try it, I had already lost a good deal of weight by using a Peat-y/Perfect Health Diet eating strategy and intermittent fasting. By the time I tried VLF I had already probably dumped a lot of the toxins that were stored in fat.

BTW, I'm a fat lover, too...I can eat butter straight off the stick And there is NOTHING on Earth more comforting than Earl Grey tea with lots of sugar and heavy cream.

 

[ecstatichamster]

i've been on ULTRA low fat and it gets old but I think it's helping.

 

[artist]

I'd love to hear how you continue on this!! I cannot imagine my life without fat. Last time I tried high carb/starch and low fat, I got appendicitis. It was a long time coming, but I've been afraid of starch since then and only eat it in small small doses. And usually take cascara following to make sure it gets out of the system.

But I'd love to give the high carb thing a try again in the future! Maybe when I have antibiotics on hand in case it goes wrong. Also, don't forget, you can probably throw in some gelatin for protein, since it's fat free and good for the gut :)

That's pretty worrisome, I've gotten some weird pains before when increasing starch that could have been my appendix. I got the same thing temporarily when I was dosing high amounts of vitamin A but it would go away after 2-3 days. I haven't been having issues so far with this no-added-fat way but that is something to keep in mind. Since I started following Peat's advice (late 2014) I have always kept my daily fat intake pretty exceptionally low. There was at least a good 6 month stretch where almost every day it was under 25 grams a day, with occasional ice cream or whatever when I craved it. This may have taken some of the burden off of going zero fat like whodathunkit mentioned. My appetite unfortunately leaves something to be desired (lol what a play on words) but I definitely always crave carbs and less so fat so this is pretty easy for me. When I crave fat it is always butter specifically and nothing else will do and it'll be a one day thing. I am supplementing ADEK so that might be part of why I don't really miss butter for now.

@artist, you might try some powdered raw potato starch (sold in bags by Bob's Red Mill). RPS is "resistant" to digestion so it doesn't get fermented in the small intestine where more easily fermented fiber and sugars can overfeed bacteria and help cause SIBO. RPS is so resistant to fermentation that it won't take someone out of ketosis at amounts of 2-3 tbsp at a time. RPS is supposed to be able to make its way into the large intestine where it can feed the good guys back in there. I can't testify as to the actual truth of that, but I can testify that RPS helped me a lot in the beginning of my gut journey. I used it regularly for several months. I still use it very occasionally, but like with most good interventions, it's not something you should need as a regular thing in the long term.

It also was helpful in quelling some of my food cravings.

If you decide to try it, be aware some people do get sides from it. Gas or bloating, sometimes anxiety, even immune issues. I think it all depends on the composition of your gut bacteria and how healthy you are when you start it. It can be pretty potent. I decided to try it because IMO the good guys in there should be given the chance to counterbalance the bad, and if you don't feed them, the balance just goes more out of whack. The bad guys seem to have a leg up anyway when it comes to survival in less than optimal conditions. YMMV.

Resistant starch sounds interesting, I have heard of this before but I didn't really understand what the resistant aspect actually meant lol. I imagine I am getting some RS already from eating cooled/reheated foods. Did it suppress your appetite all around?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Last time I tried high carb/starch and low fat, I got appendicitis.

Really? I remember that post from the old site but I didn't know that's what you were eating. I thought I was the only one there who ate starch. I thought almost everyone there was anti-starch. I also remember your posts on eggs and dairy which you said eggs didn't agree with you and that you don't really like milk but it looks like now you're doing fine with eggs and dairy. What was your diet in the 6 months leading up to the appendicitis?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I'm interested in hearing from Westside PUFAs and others who are amenable to starch, possibly fasting, etc. I am quite familiar with Peat's work at this point but this is my health not Peat's so I would like to have his work as a touchstone while keeping an open mind

Fill out my form, pm me if you'd like:

Age
Height
Weight
Gender of birth
General weekly diet
If available, current blood labs taken from you when fasted for at least 12 hours
All pharmaceutical medications you currently take
All pharmaceutical medications you have taken in the past including any birth control
All dietary supplements including "natural" hormones you currently take
All dietary supplements including "natural" hormones you have taken in the past
Activity on a weekly basis
Approximate location in the world
What kind of water you drink
How much sunlight you receive directly on your skin and on which parts of the body
Level of life stress
Level of sexual satisfaction
How many hours you sleep per night
How often you wake up during sleep
What hours to sleep from and to, as in normal or late like 3am-noon
What products you put on your skin like make up, soap, and other chemicals
Quality of the air you breathe/Environmental exposure to chemicals such as living near a power plant, a freeway, or working in a mine

 

[artist]

Fill out my form, pm me if you'd like:
I pretty much already did this on the other page but aight

Age 26
Height 5'8
Weight 135
Gender of birth - baby girl
General weekly diet - Previously, cheese, yogurt and other cultured dairy, orange juice and other juices, some fruits, eggs, vegeetables cooked in butter or coconut oil, stuff like that. Now I'm doing potatoes and bread and stuff
If available, current blood labs taken from you when fasted for at least 12 hours - don't have them on hand, there's nothing that exciting to report for the basic stats and I haven't had a hormone panel in a long time
All pharmaceutical medications you currently take - NDT thyroid 2 grains, considering going off of it but I did have very classic distinct hypothryoid profile when I started
All pharmaceutical medications you have taken in the past including any birth control - took Accutane about 8 years ago, lowest possible dose as I was anorexic at the time, took wellbutrin for about 2 months 5 years ago, done several stints of daily dose of benzos
All dietary supplements including "natural" hormones you currently take - occasionally take Haidut's progesterone at the standard dose, daily it's ADEK, magnesium malate, P5P, and lately zinc
All dietary supplements including "natural" hormones you have taken in the past - experimented with taurine, theanine, niacinamide
Activity on a weekly basis - not that high lately, but this is the first time that's been the case in my adult life. previously daily intense cardio
Approximate location in the world - american south
What kind of water you drink - those cheap jugs of spring water
How much sunlight you receive directly on your skin and on which parts of the body - a bit, it's sunny here but I don't get a lot of full body exposure, I use red light lamps a lot
Level of life stress - high
Level of sexual satisfaction - gonna skip this one just cause im a bit of a puritanical authoritarian
How many hours you sleep per night - 9
How often you wake up during sleep - 0 to 1
What hours to sleep from and to, as in normal or late like 3am-noon oscillates between normal and late, very strong night owl inclination
What products you put on your skin like make up, soap, and other chemicals - mineral makeup, vanicream face wash, eucerin lotion, saponified coconut oil soap
Quality of the air you breathe/Environmental exposure to chemicals such as living near a power plant, a freeway, or working in a mine - sorta bad, I live downtown and my apartment has new carpets

.

 

[lindsay]

Really? I remember that post from the old site but I didn't know that's what you were eating. I thought I was the only one there who ate starch. I thought almost everyone there was anti-starch. I also remember your posts on eggs and dairy which you said eggs didn't agree with you and that you don't really like milk but it looks like now you're doing fine with eggs and dairy. What was your diet in the 6 months leading up to the appendicitis?

Yes. I went about two or three weeks before I ate a huge bowl of mashed potatoes and carrots and then I got very ill and developed a 103 F fever for three days, stomach pain and delirium. Went to the ER and found out my appendix was badly infected. I had been having diarrhea (sorry for the TMI) a lot the week before the appendicitis too. I was eating predominantly organic mashed potatoes and white rice with some salt and seasonings. If I was eating 5 - 10 grams of fat per day, that would have been a lot. I also had been trying to soak and eat oats, which made me feel horribly gassy and bloated for entire days.

So, starch isn't all it's cracked up to be for some. And it makes me sad because I LOVE starch, but can only eat it in very small doses. I had had problems with eggs in the past, so it could have been that the appendicitis was slowly coming on for months, but after my surgery, I decided to screw diets and weight loss and just eat what my body was craving. I've been eating eggs, dairy and higher fat since then - moderate amounts of sugar (basically, I eat sugar to cravings - which is plenty for me. I tend to be a sugar addict, but don't eat the 800 grams per day that some might). Whenever I eat starch in high quantities, it still gives me problems. So I avoid it and opt for sugar instead. I really like bread and potatoes, so this makes me sad. But whatever. It's not worth it sometimes. I still think about trying the high carb low fat thing again, but I think I would be miserable without fat. And since I've never been overweight and don't really need to lose weight, I think I am fine where I am at. If things stop working, I will likely start experimenting again. But animals products have been amazing for me - especially after 8 years of going without (except occasional fish/shellfish).

 

[artist]

@lindsay I wonder if herbal antibiotics like oregano oil, cinnamon or (haven't tried these) garlic or berberine, could help you at the beginning with a reintroduction of starch? It's tricky because I can't say for sure how much of a role the OO and cinnamon have played, but I basically started out doing a typical anti-SIBO protocol with those and then like 5 days in decided to drop the fat and up the starch. I know for sure that I've benefitted from them but I don't know if it's a make-or-break thing when it comes to starch tolerance. Either way in my case it seems I can coast without them now.

For another update, my "Multiple Chemical Sensitivity" has pretty much disappeared this week which is the biggest breakthroughs I've ever had with my health. I can wear perfume with no problems when even slightly scented products had made me gravely ill for at least the past 4 years. Kinda in disbelief honestly.

 

[lindsay]

@lindsay I wonder if herbal antibiotics like oregano oil, cinnamon or (haven't tried these) garlic or berberine, could help you at the beginning with a reintroduction of starch? It's tricky because I can't say for sure how much of a role the OO and cinnamon have played, but I basically started out doing a typical anti-SIBO protocol with those and then like 5 days in decided to drop the fat and up the starch. I know for sure that I've benefitted from them but I don't know if it's a make-or-break thing when it comes to starch tolerance. Either way in my case it seems I can coast without them now.

For another update, my "Multiple Chemical Sensitivity" has pretty much disappeared this week which is the biggest breakthroughs I've ever had with my health. I can wear perfume with no problems when even slightly scented products had made me gravely ill for at least the past 4 years. Kinda in disbelief honestly.

I use oregano oil regularly. Not daily, but whenever I feel like I have a sinus infection coming on. I've also found that Iodine really helps (Yikes! I the horrors, right? ) But it does. For me it comes down to thyroid function, usually. When I am doing well with my thyroid supplementation (which is hard these days since Cynoplus is no longer available), I can eat most things without trouble. I used to eat Matzo crackers regularly and tolerate really refined wheat products better than nutritious starches. But when I tried to make my own sourdough and bread with yeast at home, it didn't go well. I have been able to lower my thyroid dose a lot, but not eliminate it entirely.

I still eat starch occasionally, it's just that I find it to be kind of a useless food in comparison to others. For instance, as someone who was vegetarian and ate very little protein for years, potato protein won't cut it for me. I need that little bit of liver and oysters and lots of gelatin and dairy protein. It's helped me immensely. And I was underweight for many years and have had severe digestive problems for more than a decade, so I think that trying to go full out starch is not something I care to do. I don't need to lose weight, no matter how much I miss the 115 lb. figure I used to have. So I think I'm better off getting really nutrient dense foods until I choose otherwise. Maybe as summer comes I will crave fats less, but the weather is still cool in the Northeast and fat intake is kind of a necessity up this way, IMO. If I lived in Florida, I would just live off of fruit and conch fish all day - LOL :) I really love the latter.

Anyhow, thank you for your suggestions! I do try to include fruit fiber in my diet - or veggies/carrot. That is a definite must for me. I don't know how people try to live on a fiberless diet. I would be severely constipated.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think my liver is now able to metabolize the estrogen that progesterone may be flushing out of my fat cells, whereas before VLF, it couldn't do it. I got terrible bloating and other estrogen symptoms from progesterone. Not this time, and I've worked up to a hammerknocker dose fairly quickly, for a specific short-term purpose.

You might simply not be absorbing the progesterone.

 

[Ewelina]

@lindsay I wonder if herbal antibiotics like oregano oil, cinnamon or (haven't tried these) garlic or berberine, could help you at the beginning with a reintroduction of starch? It's tricky because I can't say for sure how much of a role the OO and cinnamon have played, but I basically started out doing a typical anti-SIBO protocol with those and then like 5 days in decided to drop the fat and up the starch. I know for sure that I've benefitted from them but I don't know if it's a make-or-break thing when it comes to starch tolerance. Either way in my case it seems I can coast without them now.

For another update, my "Multiple Chemical Sensitivity" has pretty much disappeared this week which is the biggest breakthroughs I've ever had with my health. I can wear perfume with no problems when even slightly scented products had made me gravely ill for at least the past 4 years. Kinda in disbelief honestly.

Fantastic news! Keep us posted artist!

 

[tara]

For another update, my "Multiple Chemical Sensitivity" has pretty much disappeared this week which is the biggest breakthroughs I've ever had with my health.

Great!

 

[artist]

So I drank quite a bit of alcohol on my birthday a week ago and it caused a brief revival of some lingering gastritis (that I developed from food poisoning about 5 weeks ago) and I had to eat some fattier animal products to get myself back to normal. I basically returned to my normal diet of zero starch and low-moderate fat for a few days and the multiple chemical sensitivity and all around crumminess came right back after about a day and a half. I am back on zero fat again but with much more emphasis on including fat-free dairy (desire for protein had finally started to show up) and I'm gonna see what happens. I've been looking more into what poor fat digestion relates to or could reflect and am intrigued by the possibility of a gallbladder weakness. I also realized that the element that had me most addicted to those expensive energy drinks was the ginseng. The caffeine and B-vitamins obviously play a role but I was never able to recreate the fast-acting anti-estrogen effect with just those elements. Ginseng has many properties but it primarily seems to increase circulation, a commonality I'm finding among everything that works for me (including fat-free eating, as I understand this has a blood thinning effect in itself)

I use oregano oil regularly. Not daily, but whenever I feel like I have a sinus infection coming on. I've also found that Iodine really helps (Yikes! I the horrors, right? ) But it does. For me it comes down to thyroid function, usually. When I am doing well with my thyroid supplementation (which is hard these days since Cynoplus is no longer available), I can eat most things without trouble. I used to eat Matzo crackers regularly and tolerate really refined wheat products better than nutritious starches. But when I tried to make my own sourdough and bread with yeast at home, it didn't go well. I have been able to lower my thyroid dose a lot, but not eliminate it entirely.

I still eat starch occasionally, it's just that I find it to be kind of a useless food in comparison to others. For instance, as someone who was vegetarian and ate very little protein for years, potato protein won't cut it for me. I need that little bit of liver and oysters and lots of gelatin and dairy protein. It's helped me immensely. And I was underweight for many years and have had severe digestive problems for more than a decade, so I think that trying to go full out starch is not something I care to do. I don't need to lose weight, no matter how much I miss the 115 lb. figure I used to have. So I think I'm better off getting really nutrient dense foods until I choose otherwise. Maybe as summer comes I will crave fats less, but the weather is still cool in the Northeast and fat intake is kind of a necessity up this way, IMO. If I lived in Florida, I would just live off of fruit and conch fish all day - LOL :) I really love the latter.

Anyhow, thank you for your suggestions! I do try to include fruit fiber in my diet - or veggies/carrot. That is a definite must for me. I don't know how people try to live on a fiberless diet. I would be severely constipated.

Oh okay, yeah I do notice an effect from oregano oil but like you said it hasn't been any sort of digestive cure-all for me either sadly. I feel you on the disinterest in starch post-vegetarianism. I was a vegan for four years and after an initial adjustment back to meat and dairy those for a time became the only things that felt like legitimate food to me haha. That was a while ago for me though and after flirting with low-carbism (due to my bewildered observation even then that starch made me sick) and then Peatism I've actually restricted starch for quite a while now, so basically there's no food I can't feel some level of prolonged deprivation towards hahah. Oh how I long to eat a mixed diet like a "normal person"

I am gonna be incorporating a lot more fat-free dairy, maybe lean chicken breast and occasional liver into my diet from here out with still a lot of emphasis on starch. Now it's looking like starch wasn't necessarily the problem or at least not the only problem. (Which should have been obvious considering I still had many issues even with it removed)

 

[artist]

I am still going strong on this diet and it's only getting easier. I have been almost living off of various beans and brown rice and I feel better all the time. My brain fog, acne, sleep, and swelling issues are rapidly subsiding. My face really looks like one of those Broda Barnes before and afters, the tip of my nose looks all refined now and my jaw looks super crisp. This is the clearest I think my skin has been since I was 12. I also continue to consume OJ, occasional potatoes, and cucumber salad but now I make the cucu with just vinegar/salt/sugar/dill instead of including sour cream. I am finding that I need to avoid plain (unfermented) milk as it causes severe anxiety/mental problems for me, something I had observed in the past but that was more striking as a bump in what has become a very smooth road lately. Yogurt is better but I kinda overdid it on the yogurt about a year ago and my appetite for it hasn't returned. So I am still on a practically vegan diet for now, something I never thought I'd find myself doing again, but I plan to have meat here and there. Wheat issues seem to build up over several days so I dropped that, and I also find my digestion is more perfect with no refined starches. Yay

 

[skycop00]

I am still going strong on this diet and it's only getting easier. I have been almost living off of various beans and brown rice and I feel better all the time. My brain fog, acne, sleep, and swelling issues are rapidly subsiding. My face really looks like one of those Broda Barnes before and afters, the tip of my nose looks all refined now and my jaw looks super crisp. This is the clearest I think my skin has been since I was 12. I also continue to consume OJ, occasional potatoes, and cucumber salad but now I make the cucu with just vinegar/salt/sugar/dill instead of including sour cream. I am finding that I need to avoid plain (unfermented) milk as it causes severe anxiety/mental problems for me, something I had observed in the past but that was more striking as a bump in what has become a very smooth road lately. Yogurt is better but I kinda overdid it on the yogurt about a year ago and my appetite for it hasn't returned. So I am still on a practically vegan diet for now, something I never thought I'd find myself doing again, but I plan to have meat here and there. Wheat issues seem to build up over several days so I dropped that, and I also find my digestion is more perfect with no refined starches. Yay

Very cool. I am going to start adding rice and some beans into my diet. I am already less than 30 grams of fat daily, so let's see how that works for me...Good job!!

 

[artist]

Thanks! I hope it works for you, do report back. I was a bit scared to add beans cause I have read they are somehow antithyroid but I'm a bit out in the hinterlands relative to a Peat diet at this point anyway and I am not getting any signs of lowered thyroid, quite the opposite

 

[Ewelina]

@artist

I'm very happy for you, artist!

I guess your present vegan diet is lower fat/PUFA than your earlier one? I also try to lower my fat intake to bare minimum and I've started eating more starch (sticky rice mostly). I found tyw's posts very informative. He wrote about problems with fructose and usefulness of glutinous starches. I think, despite being on this new eating regime relatively short, I haven't noticed any immediate problems, which is good, as I have quite irrational fear of starch. I hope with time eating like this will be more natural for me, as for now I would like to drown everything in butter and mascarpone.

 

[artist]

I haven't run the numbers but yes it does seem to be lower in PUFA than can be achieved including any significant amount of low fat dairy, which is what I've typically done in the past. I think my lowest fat intake was a long stretch of 20g of dairy fat per day and it was only like 2/3 saturated which is typical of quality dairy. I'm starting to wonder if dairy is a problem for me that's somehow exacerbated by starch, so I'm gonna include coconut oil now and see what happens, for science