Severe stomach problems, impossible to eat enough

[Maty]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum looking for help, because my digestion has completely collapsed over the last couple of months, and right now I can't eat anything at all other than fruit juice and simple sugars. Especially proteins give me terrible stomach pains, food stays in my stomach for hours, I always feel full and I have completely lost my appetite (this is strange for me, I have always had a big appetite). This condition has forced me to undereat (even reaching 1000kcals/day is difficult for me), and I am dangerously underweight. I'll tell you my story to put the situation into context: about 20 years ago I started having stomach problems (and I want stress that I NEVER have intestinal problems, but only my stomach). Experimenting, I realized that the problems only existed when I ate foods containing starch (even gluten-free), so I began to exclude them by following a paleo diet. About 7 years ago I discovered this forum and ray peat, and since then I have adopted a starch free peat style diet (milk, cheese, fruit, honey and other simple sugars in abundance, gelatin, eggs and occasionally very little meat). 4 months ago I wanted to experiment with reintroducing starch, eating about 300 g/day of rice. A month later I had to abandon the experiment because I slowly began to have stomach pains and violent diarrhea began which still lasts. I have since cut back on starch by eating just a few grams of rice a day, but my health and digestive problems have only gotten worse. About a week ago I went back to a starch free diet. in this last week, however, I have noticed that all foods that contain even a few traces of starch destroy my stomach (bananas, apples, boiled carrots, cocoa powder) I had a test for sibo because I suspected a bacteria overgrowth, but on the contrary it turns out that I have very low levels of intestinal bacteria, both hydrogen and methane were close to 0 for the entire duration of the test. Another thing I had changed in the last few months was to go 0 salt, it wasn't planned, I simply didn't wanted any salty food. Now I know that this is a mistake because I recently read in the forum that sodium chloride is essential for producing hydrochloric acid. I wanted to ask you if in your opinion these dietary changes could be the cause of my digestive problems, because otherwise I will have to start investigating something else, for example I could be developing idiopathic gastroparesis​

Any suggestions to get out of this situation are greatly appreciated, I know that I should almost double my calorie intake and gain at least 10kg (at the moment I weigh 35kg at 1.60), but my stomach really can't process more calories, even if I eat the simplest foods (honey, sugar, milk etc)​

 

[chrstn4o]

Hi, have you sought out medical help at any stage through this process? Seems like that is a good place to start. They may identify a severe imbalance and perhaps put you on an elemental diet to help you get some nutrition in. Better play it safe rather than experiment with different things.

 

[Maty]

Ciao, hai cercato aiuto medico in qualsiasi fase di questo processo? Sembra che sia un buon punto di partenza. Potrebbero identificare un grave squilibrio e forse sottoporti a una dieta elementare per aiutarti a nutrirti. Meglio andare sul sicuro piuttosto che sperimentare cose diverse.

Hi, i have been 3 times at the urgency in the ospital and i have consulted several gastroenterologist. I did every kind of medical investication (x-rays, TC Scan, ecography, gastroscopy and numbers of blood analisys). Gastroenterologist do not understand what Is going on

 

[chrstn4o]

Hi, i have been 3 times at the urgency in the ospital and i have consulted several gastroenterologist. I did every kind of medical investication (x-rays, TC Scan, ecography, gastroscopy and numbers of blood analisys). Gastroenterologist do not understand what Is going on

What about a stool test for parasites and such? Surely someone suggested that?

 

[Maty]

Che ne dici di un test delle feci per parassiti e simili? Sicuramente qualcuno lo ha suggerito?

Hi, i did It. I was cheked for sibo, Helicobacter, candida (on multiple samples), giardia and intestinal parasites. I'm negative to all.

 

[chrstn4o]

Hi, i did It. I was cheked for sibo, Helicobacter, candida (on multiple samples), giardia and intestinal parasites. I'm negative to all.

Which test did they run? DNA or culture-based?

 

[mostlylurking]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum looking for help, because my digestion has completely collapsed over the last couple of months, and right now I can't eat anything at all other than fruit juice and simple sugars. Especially proteins give me terrible stomach pains, food stays in my stomach for hours, I always feel full and I have completely lost my appetite (this is strange for me, I have always had a big appetite). This condition has forced me to undereat (even reaching 1000kcals/day is difficult for me), and I am dangerously underweight. I'll tell you my story to put the situation into context: about 20 years ago I started having stomach problems (and I want stress that I NEVER have intestinal problems, but only my stomach). Experimenting, I realized that the problems only existed when I ate foods containing starch (even gluten-free), so I began to exclude them by following a paleo diet. About 7 years ago I discovered this forum and ray peat, and since then I have adopted a starch free peat style diet (milk, cheese, fruit, honey and other simple sugars in abundance, gelatin, eggs and occasionally very little meat). 4 months ago I wanted to experiment with reintroducing starch, eating about 300 g/day of rice. A month later I had to abandon the experiment because I slowly began to have stomach pains and violent diarrhea began which still lasts. I have since cut back on starch by eating just a few grams of rice a day, but my health and digestive problems have only gotten worse. About a week ago I went back to a starch free diet. in this last week, however, I have noticed that all foods that contain even a few traces of starch destroy my stomach (bananas, apples, boiled carrots, cocoa powder) I had a test for sibo because I suspected a bacteria overgrowth, but on the contrary it turns out that I have very low levels of intestinal bacteria, both hydrogen and methane were close to 0 for the entire duration of the test. Another thing I had changed in the last few months was to go 0 salt, it wasn't planned, I simply didn't wanted any salty food. Now I know that this is a mistake because I recently read in the forum that sodium chloride is essential for producing hydrochloric acid. I wanted to ask you if in your opinion these dietary changes could be the cause of my digestive problems, because otherwise I will have to start investigating something else, for example I could be developing idiopathic gastroparesis​

Any suggestions to get out of this situation are greatly appreciated, I know that I should almost double my calorie intake and gain at least 10kg (at the moment I weigh 35kg at 1.60), but my stomach really can't process more calories, even if I eat the simplest foods (honey, sugar, milk etc)​

You are describing thiamine deficiency that is being made worse by your intake of sugars/carbs. I'm NOT saying sugars/carbs are bad; I'm saying you are most likely deficient in thiamine and thiamine is required to digest sugars/carbs, which make the thiamine deficiency worse.

Hi, i have been 3 times at the urgency in the ospital and i have consulted several gastroenterologist. I did every kind of medical investication (x-rays, TC Scan, ecography, gastroscopy and numbers of blood analisys). Gastroenterologist do not understand what Is going on

Thiamine deficiency can be difficult to accurately test. Here's an article about thiamine testing:

Thiamine Deficiency Testing: Understanding the Labs - Hormones Matter

Understanding thiamine deficiency and the lab testing methods most appropriate for detecting abnormal thiamine chemistry.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Simply taking some thiamine (with water only) and waiting an hour may well tell you what you need to know. When I did this the first time, I took around 300-350mg of thiamine hcl with some water and within 45 minutes many things resolved: low body temp normalized, all inflammation disappeared, brain fog lifted.

short explanation:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrNaHjeLtgk


longer video:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5GSI-8fKrk


There is a list of highlights of this video (time stamped) on youtube below the video that you may find helpful.

 

[webbt]

I remember testimony about high dose thiamine (vitamin B1) fixing gastroparesis.

Here it is He Reversed Gastroparesis, MCAS, Dysautonomia & Tremors Using 3 Nutrients

 

[mostlylurking]

I remember testimony about high dose thiamine (vitamin B1) fixing gastroparesis.

Here it is He Reversed Gastroparesis, MCAS, Dysautonomia & Tremors Using 3 Nutrients

Thanks for this link; I had not discovered this option to watch Elliot Overton's videos. I like this format.

 

[Maty]

Quale test hanno eseguito? DNA o cultura?

Cultured based

 

[chrstn4o]

Cultured based

Culture based can miss a lot of things unfortunately. If you have the possibility to do a GI-MAP test, that can be very helpful. It is doubtful that there is not gut dysbiosis of some sort. Just the regular tools they use are often useless...

 

[Peatress]

Culture based can miss a lot of things unfortunately. If you have the possibility to do a GI-MAP test, that can be very helpful. It is doubtful that there is not gut dysbiosis of some sort. Just the regular tools they use are often useless...

Do you work for a GI Map testing company?

 

[chrstn4o]

Do you work for a GI Map testing company?

Lol, I don't! I have just found nothing faster and better at figuring out what the issue is, thus informing the protocol to help the person restore their health. A lot of people fall into the trap of thinking it is this B vitamin or that that is deficient, or it is such and such marker on a test that I need to fix...when the issue is coming from a hidden stressor in the gut. Literally everyone that I've worked with has had some issues with the gut evidenced by a test of some kind, not just those with overt GI problems but those with fatigue, brain fog etc. etc. Small wonder why Hippocrates was saying all diseases begins in the gut... So a lot of folks waste months or years guessing and playing whack-a-mole with symptoms when they could have a complete resolution in months in many cases...if they just focus on the right things.

 

[Peatress]

Lol, I don't! I have just found nothing faster and better at figuring out what the issue is, thus informing the protocol to help the person restore their health. A lot of people fall into the trap of thinking it is this B vitamin or that that is deficient, or it is such and such marker on a test that I need to fix...when the issue is coming from a hidden stressor in the gut. Literally everyone that I've worked with has had some issues with the gut evidenced by a test of some kind, not just those with overt GI problems but those with fatigue, brain fog etc. etc. Small wonder why Hippocrates was saying all diseases begins in the gut... So a lot of folks waste months or years guessing and playing whack-a-mole with symptoms when they could have a complete resolution in months in many cases...if they just focus on the right things.

It's just that the NHS in the UK has been pushing stool tests on everyone in the past 2 years but no one knows where the data is going. I'm not convinced there is any real value in this kind of testing in relatively healthy people. Even in not so healthy individuals testing positive for something with pcr test is mostly unhelpful.

 

[chrstn4o]

It's just that the NHS in the UK has been pushing stool tests on everyone in the past 2 years but no one knows where the data is going. I'm not convinced there is any real value in this kind of testing in relatively healthy people. Even in not so healthy individuals testing positive for something with pcr test is mostly unhelpful.

GI-MAP is quantitative PCR, not this other scam we've been exposed to over the last couple of years, where it is a Y/N answer. Given how much data we consent to give away just by owning a smartphone (not me, I use GrapheneOS, completely de-Googled, on my phone), I think a snapshot of our poop is a small price to pay for knowing what is going on and being empowered to do something about it. GI-MAP allowed me to see I have giardia and blasto, and it explained my tanked hormones very quickly. Getting rid of them allowed me to regain my health in a few months.

Many folks here are trying to increase their sex hormones, but it is all very allopathic in nature - treating symptoms and manipulating levels. We need to look deeper down. Literally every person I've had tested has had either a bunch of bacteria or protozoa along with other imbalances. But a parasite needs a different strategy than say dysbiotic/opportunistic bacteria. So investing in a good test like this is very wise to quickly reduce the time it takes to restore one's health. But few labs do this stuff well, if you just go with whatever a standard basic doc has access to...it will be a waste of time and rather frustrating.

So PCR may be BS is most cases, but qPCR is useful, though it can be too sensitive hence why it is only a part of the picture and a skilled clinician is still needed.

 

[cs3000]

my digestion has completely collapsed over the last couple of months, and right now I can't eat anything at all other than fruit juice and simple sugars. Especially proteins give me terrible stomach pains, food stays in my stomach for hours, I always feel full and I have completely lost my appetite (this is strange for me, I have always had a big appetite). This condition has forced me to undereat (even reaching 1000kcals/day is difficult for me), and I am dangerously underweight. ​

4 months ago I wanted to experiment with reintroducing starch, eating about 300 g/day of rice. A month later I had to abandon the experiment because I slowly began to have stomach pains and violent diarrhea began which still lasts. I have since cut back on starch by eating just a few grams of rice a day, but my health and digestive problems have only gotten worse. About a week ago I went back to a starch free diet. in this last week, however, I have noticed that all foods that contain even a few traces of starch destroy my stomach (bananas, apples, boiled carrots, cocoa powder) I had a test for sibo because I suspected a bacteria overgrowth, but on the contrary it turns out that I have very low levels of intestinal bacteria, both hydrogen and methane were close to 0 for the entire duration of the test. ​

Any suggestions to get out of this situation are greatly appreciated, I know that I should almost double my calorie intake and gain at least 10kg (at the moment I weigh 35kg at 1.60), but my stomach really can't process more calories, even if I eat the simplest foods (honey, sugar, milk etc)​

So aside from bacteria, fungus, parasites, stomach acid (if assuming the tests are correct idk),
. whats the pain type after meals burning, cramping, or sharp?
. have you tried organic starches instead? (no pesticides)
. what supplements / medications do you take
. you been tested for diabetes?

if it isnt infectious then i would look at it as an autoimmune reaction induced by something in the starch probably e.g pesticides, or worsening an existing one that tips the balance

target would be switching macrophages from pro-inflammatory to anti-inflammatory

Gastroparesis: A turning point in understanding and treatment

Gastroparesis is defined by delayed gastric emptying and symptoms of nausea, vomiting, bloating, postprandial fullness, early satiety and abdominal pain. Most common etiologies include diabetes, post-surgical and post-infectious, but in most cases it ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

At a cellular level, loss of interstitial cells of Cajal (ICC) has been reported in over half of the gastroparesis patients and nearly all of the patients had signs of injury to ICC on ultrastructural studies. The loss of ICC correlated with delayed gastric emptying in diabetic gastroparesis.

Ultrastructural studies also showed changes in nerves and smooth muscle cells which were less appreciable on immunohistochemistry. More recently, human studies have shown loss of macrophages with anti-inflammatory phenotype (CD206 positive, M2 or alternatively activated macrophages) and increased expression of genes associated with pro-inflammatory macrophages on transcriptomic analysis of full thickness biopsies.

This is complemented by animal model studies of diabetic gastroparesis where an altered macrophage activation was shown to mediate injury to ICC likely through paracrine mediators. Additionally, CSF1op/op mice lacking macrophages were protected from development of gastroparesis in spite of having diabetes suggesting an essential role for immune cells in development of delayed gastric emptying. Immune mediated mechanisms likely play a critical role in pathogenesis of gastroparesis.

 

[Peatress]

GI-MAP is quantitative PCR, not this other scam we've been exposed to over the last couple of years, where it is a Y/N answer. Given how much data we consent to give away just by owning a smartphone (not me, I use GrapheneOS, completely de-Googled, on my phone), I think a snapshot of our poop is a small price to pay for knowing what is going on and being empowered to do something about it. GI-MAP allowed me to see I have giardia and blasto, and it explained my tanked hormones very quickly. Getting rid of them allowed me to regain my health in a few months.

Many folks here are trying to increase their sex hormones, but it is all very allopathic in nature - treating symptoms and manipulating levels. We need to look deeper down. Literally every person I've had tested has had either a bunch of bacteria or protozoa along with other imbalances. But a parasite needs a different strategy than say dysbiotic/opportunistic bacteria. So investing in a good test like this is very wise to quickly reduce the time it takes to restore one's health. But few labs do this stuff well, if you just go with whatever a standard basic doc has access to...it will be a waste of time and rather frustrating.

So PCR may be BS is most cases, but qPCR is useful, though it can be too sensitive hence why it is only a part of the picture and a skilled clinician is still needed.

We are finally cognisant of the data risks with smart phones but many are still unaware that health companies are trading on our data. Anyway, that aside the usefulness of these stool tests (especially considering the cost) is still questionable. But if it’s been helpful for you that’s great.

 

[cs3000]

@Maty What I would do if it isnt infectious or low stomach acid, would:

, try 1g Vit C x3 daily for 2-3 weeks (should help gastroparesis if same mechanisms at play as diabetic type)

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Effect-of-vitamin-C-on-gastric-emptying-of-diabetic-female-rats-The-gastric-emptying-of_fig3_317850409

, try bromelain or pineapple juice after each meal (speeds up gastric emptying in studies. and also inhibits some immune cell migration)

, fix hypothyroid or take t3 (tricky with the low calories, is it worth it?)

Does Hypothyroidism Affect Gastrointestinal Motility?

Background. Gastrointestinal motility and serum thyroid hormone levels are closely related. Our aim was to analyze whether there is a disorder in esophagogastric motor functions as a result of hypothyroidism. Materials and Methods. The study group included ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

, find stuff that switches macrophages from M1 to M2 type. alters macrophage polarization

The inflammatory microenvironment with LPS and IFN-γ induces macrophage polarization to the pro-inflammatory M1-type, characterized by increased pro-inflammatory cytokines, chemokines, and reactive nitrogen and oxygen intermediates[54]. IL-4, IL-10, and IL-13 induce polarization towards the anti-inflammatory M2-type (e.g., M2a, M2b, and M2c) characterized by increased scavenger receptors and enhanced phagocytosis activity

e.g a few grams of baking soda daily (away from food) Baking Soda Is A Potent Anti-inflammatory, May Treat Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA)

, if healing after a bit, If they use a1 protein cows in italy like most of europe you could try goats milk instead of cows milk, the protein's more digestible

including this anyway for info post: usually stomach acid = upping salt intake a lot, forskolin maybe, zinc maybe, l-phenylalanine before meals, betaine or ornithine hydrochloride

 

[chrstn4o]

We are finally cognisant of the data risks with smart phones but many are still unaware that health companies are trading on our data. Anyway, that aside the usefulness of these stool tests (especially considering the cost) is still questionable. But if it’s been helpful for you that’s great.

A lot of things are questionable. We have to be evidence-based, but not-evidence limited, otherwise we'd still be using leeches and arsenic as cure-alls. Knowing you have h pylori, or blasto, or potential autoimmune triggering bacteria is plenty useful, especially if you are not in good health.

 

[Peatress]

A lot of things are questionable. We have to be evidence-based, but not-evidence limited, otherwise we'd still be using leeches and arsenic as cure-alls. Knowing you have h pylori, or blasto, or potential autoimmune triggering bacteria is plenty useful, especially if you are not in good health.

Funny how Dr Peat never talked about stool tests. I wonder why a bacteria which sufficiently problematic would not show up in a blood test?