Why antibiotics help my stomach and what to do

[Maty]

hi all
I'm new to this forum and my first question is about the use of antibiotics.
In my last 20 years I have always suffered from digestive problems, especially stomach problems (slow digestion, difficulty digesting proteins), while my intestines have never given me any problems. I have tried betaine hcl supplements, digestive enzymes, ox bile, but nothing works on my stomach. I also had a test that measures the level of stomach acidity and the amount of digestive enzymes, and the test showed normal levels.
the strange thing is that every time I had to take antibiotics (tooth infections, pneumonia, sinusitis) my digestion became perfect!
I got the best results with ceftriaxone, which is a cephalosponin or amoxicillin+tetracycline.
On the contrary, I tried rifacimin+neomycin several times and even at high doses they did not give me any benefit. Rifaximin and neomycin are antibiotics that only work in the intestines, which makes me wonder if I have a bacterial problem somewhere else in the body, maybe in the stomach? By the way, I have always tested negative for helycobacter pylori.
Any idea why systemic antibiotics improve my stomach so much?
In the last few months my digestion has become worse than ever, what do you think I could try taking a course of antibiotics again despite not having any infections? I'm a little afraid to take antibiotics for no (apparent) reason, because antibiotics are known to have many side effects
Would it be healthy to take periodic short courses of antibiotics? I read in the forum that Ray Peat recommends something like this, I was wondering if anyone has ever experienced this?

 

[chrstn4o]

hi all
I'm new to this forum and my first question is about the use of antibiotics.
In my last 20 years I have always suffered from digestive problems, especially stomach problems (slow digestion, difficulty digesting proteins), while my intestines have never given me any problems. I have tried betaine hcl supplements, digestive enzymes, ox bile, but nothing works on my stomach. I also had a test that measures the level of stomach acidity and the amount of digestive enzymes, and the test showed normal levels.
the strange thing is that every time I had to take antibiotics (tooth infections, pneumonia, sinusitis) my digestion became perfect!
I got the best results with ceftriaxone, which is a cephalosponin or amoxicillin+tetracycline.
On the contrary, I tried rifacimin+neomycin several times and even at high doses they did not give me any benefit. Rifaximin and neomycin are antibiotics that only work in the intestines, which makes me wonder if I have a bacterial problem somewhere else in the body, maybe in the stomach? By the way, I have always tested negative for helycobacter pylori.
Any idea why systemic antibiotics improve my stomach so much?
In the last few months my digestion has become worse than ever, what do you think I could try taking a course of antibiotics again despite not having any infections? I'm a little afraid to take antibiotics for no (apparent) reason, because antibiotics are known to have many side effects
Would it be healthy to take periodic short courses of antibiotics? I read in the forum that Ray Peat recommends something like this, I was wondering if anyone has ever experienced this?

If your digestion is worse than ever, you didn't actually get good results from those antibiotics. You got symptomatic relief which isn't always the same thing. Have you done a stool test like GI-Map? We often make things worse with trial and error and strong chemicals. Knowing whether the issues is parasitic, fungal or bacterial is the first step to building a good protocol to deal with. Most often you don't even need drugs. But sometimes protozoa and other parasites can go up the bile duct and hide out in the liver or gallbladder, so know the terrain a bit helps a lot.

 

[Santosh]

hi all
I'm new to this forum and my first question is about the use of antibiotics.
In my last 20 years I have always suffered from digestive problems, especially stomach problems (slow digestion, difficulty digesting proteins), while my intestines have never given me any problems. I have tried betaine hcl supplements, digestive enzymes, ox bile, but nothing works on my stomach. I also had a test that measures the level of stomach acidity and the amount of digestive enzymes, and the test showed normal levels.
the strange thing is that every time I had to take antibiotics (tooth infections, pneumonia, sinusitis) my digestion became perfect!
I got the best results with ceftriaxone, which is a cephalosponin or amoxicillin+tetracycline.
On the contrary, I tried rifacimin+neomycin several times and even at high doses they did not give me any benefit. Rifaximin and neomycin are antibiotics that only work in the intestines, which makes me wonder if I have a bacterial problem somewhere else in the body, maybe in the stomach? By the way, I have always tested negative for helycobacter pylori.
Any idea why systemic antibiotics improve my stomach so much?
In the last few months my digestion has become worse than ever, what do you think I could try taking a course of antibiotics again despite not having any infections? I'm a little afraid to take antibiotics for no (apparent) reason, because antibiotics are known to have many side effects
Would it be healthy to take periodic short courses of antibiotics? I read in the forum that Ray Peat recommends something like this, I was wondering if anyone has ever experienced this?

You have developed candida and liver issues after all these years of antibiotics.

I was in the same situation as you.
Here is what is going to make the biggest difference in your entire life : TUDCA.

Take 1.5g/day, it will clean your gut from bacteria and fungus, and will dissolve the sludge in your liver.

 

[Maty]

You have developed candida and liver issues after all these years of antibiotics.

I was in the same situation as you.
Here is what is going to make the biggest difference in your entire life : TUDCA.

Take 1.5g/day, it will clean your gut from bacteria and fungus, and will dissolve the sludge in your liver.

There are not years of antibiotics, i only had 2 rounds of 5 days, one round in 2015 and other in 2019. Moreover i felt better after take antibiotics. I'm negative to candida test

 

[Maty]

If your digestion is worse than ever, you didn't actually get good results from those antibiotics. You got symptomatic relief which isn't always the same thing. Have you done a stool test like GI-Map? We often make things worse with trial and error and strong chemicals. Knowing whether the issues is parasitic, fungal or bacterial is the first step to building a good protocol to deal with. Most often you don't even need drugs. But sometimes protozoa and other parasites can go up the bile duct and hide out in the liver or gallbladder, so know the terrain a bit helps a lot.

I took antibiotics in 1915 and 1919, my digestion went down only a couple of months ago, It can not be due to that antibiotics. Moreover after take antibiotics i felt very well during a long period

 

[LucH]

Hi,
After having identifying the problem (SIBO / SIFO) - F stands for (fungus overgrowth) - with a test, you'll have to get informed on MMC (Migrating Motor Complex), in order to avoid going back and forth with anti-fungal substances and antibiotics. The way out with faeces is problematic: Stagnation and proliferation (overgrogth).
And you probably need some butyrate to optimise communication in stomach junctions.
Butyrate and the Intestinal Epithelium: Modulation of Proliferation and Inflammation in Homeostasis and Disease.

The microbial metabolite butyrate serves as a link between the intestinal microbiome and epithelium.​

Excerpt:
There is evidence that accumulation of butyrate in epithelial cells results in histone modification and altered transcriptional activation that halts cell cycle progression. This manifests in the apparent protective effect of butyrate against colonic neoplasia. A corollary to this process is butyrate-induced inhibition of intestinal stem cells. Yet, emerging research has illustrated that the evolution of the crypt, along with butyrate-producing bacteria in the intestine, serve to protect crypt base stem cells from butyrate’s anti-proliferative effects. Butyrate also regulates epithelial inflammation and tolerance to antigens, through production of anti-inflammatory cytokines and induction of tolerogenic dendritic cells. The role of butyrate in the pathogenesis and treatment of intestinal neoplasia, inflammatory bowel disease and malabsorptive states is evolving, and holds promise for the potential translation of butyrate’s cellular function into clinical therapies.
Source: 2021. doi: 10.3390/cells10071775
Note: See Dr MarK Pimentel for further information. (=> How to treat SIBO)

 

[Maty]

CIAO,
Dopo aver individuato il problema (SIBO / SI F O) - F sta per (fungus overgrowth) - con un test, dovrai informarti sul MMC (Migrating Motor Complex), per evitare di fare avanti e indietro con anti -sostanze fungine e antibiotici. La via d'uscita con le feci è problematica: stagnazione e proliferazione (crescita eccessiva).
E probabilmente avrai bisogno di un po' di butirrato per ottimizzare la comunicazione nelle giunzioni dello stomaco.
Butirrato ed epitelio intestinale: modulazione della proliferazione e dell'infiammazione nell'omeostasi e nella malattia .

Il metabolita microbico butirrato funge da collegamento tra il microbioma intestinale e l’epitelio.​

Estratto :
Esistono prove che l'accumulo di butirrato nelle cellule epiteliali provoca la modificazione degli istoni e un'alterata attivazione trascrizionale che arresta la progressione del ciclo cellulare. Ciò si manifesta nell’apparente effetto protettivo del butirrato contro la neoplasia del colon. Un corollario di questo processo è l’inibizione delle cellule staminali intestinali indotta dal butirrato. Tuttavia, ricerche emergenti hanno dimostrato che l’evoluzione della cripta, insieme ai batteri che producono butirrato nell’intestino, servono a proteggere le cellule staminali della base della cripta dagli effetti antiproliferativi del butirrato. Il butirrato regola anche l'infiammazione epiteliale e la tolleranza agli antigeni, attraverso la produzione di citochine antinfiammatorie e l'induzione di cellule dendritiche tollerogeniche. Il ruolo del butirrato nella patogenesi e nel trattamento della neoplasia intestinale, della malattia infiammatoria intestinale e degli stati di malassorbimento è in evoluzione e promette la potenziale traduzione della funzione cellulare del butirrato in terapie cliniche.
Fonte: 2021. doi: 10.3390/cells10071775 See More
Nota: consultare il dottor MarK Pimentel per ulteriori informazioni. (=> Come trattare la SIBO)

I already have been tested for sibo, and i don't have It. I'm negative for candida (tested on multiple samples), giardia, gut parasites and Helicobacter

 

[Peachy]

I’ve been loving oregano oil capsules lately for digestion. And I’m starting to give them to my son, to alternate away from doxycycline (for acne).

 

[LucH]

I already have been tested for sibo, and i don't have It. I'm negative for candida (tested on multiple samples), giardia, gut parasites and Helicobacter

Alright but it's not because you are'nt identified SIBO, your are not SIFO. F for fungus => bacteria overgrowth. If you are Improved with some antibiotics , less flatulences and gas, better digestion, there is unbalance, oçvergrowth of some "good" bacteria. Too much of a good thing is bad !
And some "good" bacteria have nothing to do in the second part of the colon.
The tests you've mentioned didn't prove the contrary.
I would get some more information on LPS endotoxemia too.
An Innate Immune Response
Metabolic endotoxemia (ME) is an innate immune response that results in sub-clinical, persistent, low-grade inflammation due to elevated circulating endotoxins. The primary endotoxin of concern is lipopolysaccharide (LPS), a major component of the outer cell membrane residing in the gut. In fact, the majority of the microbes in the digestive tract are gram-negative bacteria, including Clostridium sp., Enterococcus sp., Escherichia sp., and Bacteroides sp.

Trillions of commensal bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract contain LPS, and when these bacteria lyse, they release LPS into the intestinal lumen. This process happens quite frequently, as many bacteria die off during a meal, but LPS remains harmless inside the intestinal lumen. It is not until LPS reaches the brush border and enters circulation that it begins to trigger low- grade inflammation.

Once inside the circulatory system, LPS can trigger innate immune activation and subsequent inflammation anywhere in the body. LPS can delay gastric emptying, slow bowel motility, disrupt ghrelin function, inhibit testosterone production, reduce serotonin, and so much more.

Metabolic endotoxemia could very well be the primary driver of most chronic illnesses plaguing the Western world. The causes of ME do not appear to be genetic or congenital, but rather a result of lifestyle choices. (9)

digital Digital Edition Archives | Dynamic Chiropractic
Tom Bayne, DC (chiropractor)

 

[Elie]

Ray recommended low dose 50 mg for short periods (can repeat) of the types of antibiotics you took amoxi, tetra those sort of things.

Stress and low thyroid are often the cause of bacterial overgrowth.
TUDCA and organo caps are worth a try.

 

[LucH]

The advice with essential oil of oregano is good but if the subject does not follow a serious eradication protocol, it will strengthen the resistant bacteria and it will be more difficult afterwards (hidden behind a biofilm). In addition, oregano must be gastro-resistant so as not to irritate the stomach. Now Food oregano, with ginger and fenel is wel. I would also take mint, cloves with savory (LCA, here in France). But we don't cure the cause that way. Only the consequence.

 

[Peachy]

The advice with essential oil of oregano is good but if the subject does not follow a serious eradication protocol, it will strengthen the resistant bacteria and it will be more difficult afterwards (hidden behind a biofilm). In addition, oregano must be gastro-resistant so as not to irritate the stomach. Now Food oregano, with ginger and fenel is wel. I would also take mint, cloves with savory (LCA, here in France). But we don't cure the cause that way. Only the consequence.

There’s some evidence carcavol (in oregano oil) reduces resistant bacteria. I’m not sure if it depends on dosage.

“In this study, CR treatment did not reduce the bacterial diversity in the mouse gut. To date, a majority of the antimicrobial compounds, especially antibiotics, have significantly altered the microbial diversity, and cause dysbiosis by changing the abundance of bacterial communities (Semenyuk et al., 2015). Moreover, CR treatment significantly increased the abundance of beneficial bacterial populations such as Firmicutes, specifically the members of Lactobacillaceae and Lachnospiraceae. In addition, CR treatment alone did not increase the abundance of detrimental bacterial populations compared to untreated control animals. Strikingly, CR reduced antibiotic-induced increases in the abundance of unfavorable bacterial populations such as Proteobacteria, specifically pathogenic gamma proteobacteria, including Enterobacteriaceae and other bacterial populations such as Verrucobacteria (Figure (Figure5).5). Surprisingly, this beneficial shift brought about by CR treatment in the gut microbiome of antibiotic-treated and C. difficile infected animals is very much similar to that of human patients who have undergone fecal microbiome transplantation (Weingarden et al., 2014), which is documented as one of the most effective strategies against severe C. difficile infection (Schenck et al., 2015; Ofosu, 2016). These results suggest that reduced or delayed clinical infection rate and less severe clinical presentation of CR-treated animals could attributed in part to the beneficial shift in the gut microbiome.

To conclude, our results suggest CR supplementation to be protective against C. difficile infection in mice. Carvacrol supplementation significantly reduced the incidence of diarrhea and mitigated the severity of C. difficile induced clinical symptoms, inducing a favorable shift in the composition of the gut microbiota without detrimentally affecting the gut microbiome diversity in mice.”

 

[Peachy]

I’ve had to stop Oregaresp after a few weeks because it got to be too much on my gut. But Swanson (not perfect, but in olive oil) has been gentle and effective. I’m not dealing with anything major though.

Swanson Oregano Oil 10:1 Extract-Natural Supplement Promoting Digestive Health-Respiratory & Urinary Tract Health Support (120 Softgels, 150mg Each)
Amazon.com

 

[LucH]

after a few weeks because it got to be too much on my gut.

Yes, I know. Must be coated.
On my way I used a different use: EO softgels diluted in water. A drink every +/ 3 Hours (with other nutrients, among which Mg, K, collagen and glutamine). And 1/2 resolor 1 mg at bedtime in order to optimize MMC (no stagnation of faeces).
And of course enough fibbers from vegetables (3 colors): 30 gr.
I've written a diary to help / witness for other persons on my forum, to explain how and why.

 

[Elie]

I’ve been loving oregano oil capsules lately for digestion. And I’m starting to give them to my son, to alternate away from doxycycline (for acne).

what health issues have you addressed with oregano oil capsules. how long it took to kick in and how often do you use them?

 

[Peachy]

what health issues have you addressed with oregano oil capsules. how long it took to kick in and how often do you use them?

For myself, I’ve mostly used it to prevent respiratory infections. I used Oregaresp a couple years back and remember it working well at first, but it threw off my digestion. It’s a mix of multiple herbs so it may not have been the oregano.

This time I tried Swanson brand and it staved off a cold (I could feel it coming on but it didn’t get me). I used it about a week or two and noticed how much it improved some mild digestive issues I’d been having. Once I realized I wasn’t going to get sick, I stopped the oregano but the digestive improvements have remained. I’ll probably take it on an as-needed basis.

Another thing I’ve used it for is my dad’s immunity against C. diff, Candida, etc. He’s susceptible due to late stage cancer and aggressive treatments. He was recently in a vulnerable spot after having multiple infections, antibiotics/antifungals, and radiation. We included oregano oil as part of his gut regimen and I really feel it has helped.

Just started using it in my son’s acne regimen (internally).

 

[Peachy]

how long it took to kick in and how often do you use them?

So for these issues I noticed it working right away (not sure yet on son’s acne). I plan to take it as needed. But I’ll include oregano oil in my dad’s cancer supplement plan indefinitely.

 

[Elie]

So for these issues I noticed it working right away (not sure yet on son’s acne). I plan to take it as needed. But I’ll include oregano oil in my dad’s cancer supplement plan indefinitely.

Brilliant. I used it recently for 2-3 days without notable improvements (my discomfort is mostly at night). I may try it longer.
Thanks for tye detailed explanation

 

[Peachy]

Brilliant. I used it recently for 2-3 days without notable improvements (my discomfort is mostly at night). I may try it longer.
Thanks for tye detailed explanation

Thats what I noticed the most benefit with - night discomfort. I took 4-6 of these as I thought of it throughout the day, definitely 2 after dinner. I dosed intuitively for it to be effective but not overdo it.

 

[aliml]

Low doses of some antibiotics act as motilin receptor agonists and prokinetic digestive agents. Motilin activation accelerates gastric emptying, stimulates hunger and food intake, and helps treat constipation and SIBO.

Cephalosporin antibiotics accelerate gastric emptying in mice - PubMed

Gastroparesis is a common debilitating complication in many diabetic patients. While several drugs are available for gastroparesis, many patients are not adequately treated. Many patients do not respond to available drugs or appear to develop tachyphylaxis after an initial response. New agents...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Erythromycin is also a potent activator of motilin receptors. Azithromycin can also activate motilin receptors in a similar way to erythromycin.