Gut Repair After Lots Of Antiobiotics

[walker_in_aus]

Due to some infection problems, in the last month I have had a large amount of antibiotics. Three days on IV broad spectrum amoxycillin and metronidazole, then two seperate 5 days courses of amoxyclav. Plus topical clyndamycin and antifungal cream for the, ahem, side effects of the antibiotics.

I have also had a seven day course of oral nystatin drops and two "single dose" flucanozole oral pills for further anti fungals.

My tummy and intestines copped a beating from it all and are really tender. I'm a bit exhausted and tired and wondering whether i need to do a serious gut repair diet or just give it more time to feel better. It hurts to poke my lower abdomen. The first few weeks I had loose BM but the last two weeks they are been solid, but like seven times a day... so much poop.

I haven't taken a lot of probiotics, just twice a week i take a primal flora, as I'm wary of them these days, especially since I'm hoping now my small intestine will be quite sterile... I tried to eat plenty of carrots and drank a lot of mineral water whilst i was on all these as well to clean it all out.

I think I should be eating slow cooked meats off the bone, warm milk and stewed fruit for a while? I'm tired and can't figure out a plan, so any advice would be great.

(ps tests show no infections left... yay)

 

[HDD]

@walker_in_aus Glad your infection cleared! @Kray posted this email response from Peat-
"Excessive use of any antibiotic can cause a vitamin K deficiency by killing intestinal bacteria. B12 might be affected too."

I just finished a short round of antibiotics and have been taking vitamin K. I think Peat has said milk has plenty of bacteria for the gut (not sure where he said this).

 

[theLaw]

Ray Peat Potato Protein Soup (RPPPS)

Just let starch settle from juice for 2-3hrs after juicing, then cook 45min.

Possibly best kept digestive secret in Peatland.

Also, activated charcoal in large doses (4T) really cleans out the gut like nothing else.

 

[walker_in_aus]

@walker_in_aus Glad your infection cleared! @Kray posted this email response from Peat-
"Excessive use of any antibiotic can cause a vitamin K deficiency by killing intestinal bacteria. B12 might be affected too."

I just finished a short round of antibiotics and have been taking vitamin K. I think Peat has said milk has plenty of bacteria for the gut (not sure where he said this).

Thanks! I've been having vitamin k, but maybe i'll bump it up a little, and add b12. good points. more milk. Not having as much as i used to, nausea and milk aren't the greatest combo.

 

[walker_in_aus]

Ray Peat Potato Protein Soup (RPPPS)

Just let starch settle from juice for 2-3hrs after juicing, then cook 45min.

Possibly best kept digestive secret in Peatland.

Also, activated charcoal in large doses (4T) really cleans out the gut like nothing else.

Ah yes but the juicer is the problem... Maybe i should find one and give this a go for a few weeks.

Charcoal really upsets my guts too. I do it a few times a year but it does tend to give me a sore belly!

 

[theLaw]

Ah yes but the juicer is the problem... Maybe i should find one and give this a go for a few weeks.

Charcoal really upsets my guts too. I do it a few times a year but it does tend to give me a sore belly!

Do you take the ac with plenty of liquid (16ounces juice for 4T of ac)?

 

[Kray]

@walker_in_aus Glad your infection cleared! @Kray posted this email response from Peat-
"Excessive use of any antibiotic can cause a vitamin K deficiency by killing intestinal bacteria. B12 might be affected too."

I just finished a short round of antibiotics and have been taking vitamin K. I think Peat has said milk has plenty of bacteria for the gut (not sure where he said this).

@HDD- Just caught your post, thanks for your input.

Like you, my husband is supplementing K2 and getting more B12 via supplement and diet, added carrot salad back into daily diet for gut health. We have access to good-quality milk, and he’s been drinking more of that, too.

Per Dr orders, he took 2- week course of a probiotic (BioK Plus capsules) during antibiotic use. Dr now suggests indefinite use of probiotic, VSL#3, apparently thinks E.coli infection puts him more at risk to getting the bug again—coincidentally the same probiotic @Dante on another thread posted as having good success with. Btw-we can only guess his exposure was to a Mexican restaurant meal, a real hole-in-the-wall, we ate at 3 days before he became acutely ill with a UTI/blood infection!

Curious if you considered probiotics in your case. If you have any information yea or nay I’d appreciate it. Not sure if continued use is a good thing, vs. more Peaty options above.

 

[HDD]

@Kray I'm not taking probiotics but am considering bacteriophages (have some on hand). Like @walker_in_aus , the antibiotics cleaned me out but then I swung back to being somewhat constipated. I'm taking Lapodin now but haven't figured out the right dose yet. I only had 6 days of Doxycycline and my symptoms weren't completely gone so I started Oxidal and Oil of Oregano. I also took higher doses of vitamin D for a few days. I did a search on Ray Peats interviews and found the following quote.

"And so it's good to check your prolactin and thyroid and it happens that those can often go with the other symptoms, the low thyroid that makes you susceptible to urinary tract infections. Broda Barnes’ books on the thyroid tell many stories about chronic urinary and oral infections that clear up as soon as they take thyroid and the..."
East West: Questions & Answers I

Since I read this, I've been paying closer attention to my temperature and dosing thyroid more consistently hoping this will alleviate lingering symptoms.

 

[Constatine]

You need to be really careful. I'm still struggling with gut issues due to large doses of antibiotics (got bit by a brown recluse...twice). Though my gut issues could be a direct result of the spider bite as well. Nevertheless I recommend you take this very seriously. I recommend high quality colostrum and bone broth to repair any damage to the gut mucosa and improve gut immune health. Probiotics are good in some cases but they do stress the immune system when you take it, can make the situation worse if your immune system is too damaged or the wrong strains are used. But they can also be very beneficial of course and are probably necessary for proper healing.

 

[walker_in_aus]

You need to be really careful. I'm still struggling with gut issues due to large doses of antibiotics (got bit by a brown recluse...twice). Though my gut issues could be a direct result of the spider bite as well. Nevertheless I recommend you take this very seriously. I recommend high quality colostrum and bone broth to repair any damage to the gut mucosa and improve gut immune health. Probiotics are good in some cases but they do stress the immune system when you take it, can make the situation worse if your immune system is too damaged or the wrong strains are used. But they can also be very beneficial of course and are probably necessary for proper healing.

I feel like probiotics could help but I don't know, and I don't know anyone who does know enough about which ones and how to obtain them and take them correctly without possibly making the situation worse...

I have colostrum arriving today, in the past it was the only thing that immediately made me feel better. I am making potato protein soup as well for the first time. Bone broth made at home never makes me feel good - I try to have slow cooked stocks from free range animals though only 3 hour simmered.

I'm also trying to stick to easy to digest things - warm milk, stewed fruit, slow cooked meat and root vegetables, very ripe tropical fruit.

Are you feeling better or still having problems?

 

[Kray]

@Kray I'm not taking probiotics but am considering bacteriophages (have some on hand). Like @walker_in_aus , the antibiotics cleaned me out but then I swung back to being somewhat constipated. I'm taking Lapodin now but haven't figured out the right dose yet. I only had 6 days of Doxycycline and my symptoms weren't completely gone so I started Oxidal and Oil of Oregano. I also took higher doses of vitamin D for a few days. I did a search on Ray Peats interviews and found the following quote.

"And so it's good to check your prolactin and thyroid and it happens that those can often go with the other symptoms, the low thyroid that makes you susceptible to urinary tract infections. Broda Barnes’ books on the thyroid tell many stories about chronic urinary and oral infections that clear up as soon as they take thyroid and the..."
East West: Questions & Answers I

Since I read this, I've been paying closer attention to my temperature and dosing thyroid more consistently hoping this will alleviate lingering symptoms.

@HDD, Thanks for the Peat interview link, which I read. Now, after reading these last few posts since mine, not sure about getting into probiotics, but maybe stick to Peat’s ideas, overall thyroid health, good metabolism. Being in a compromised state of health and having to deal with doctors today really makes you question their understanding now more than ever , sadly.

Can you link me to more information on “bacteriophages”? Wasn’t able to readily find anything about them.

I wish you improvement in your health issues, and thank you for your response.

 

[Constatine]

I feel like probiotics could help but I don't know, and I don't know anyone who does know enough about which ones and how to obtain them and take them correctly without possibly making the situation worse...

I have colostrum arriving today, in the past it was the only thing that immediately made me feel better. I am making potato protein soup as well for the first time. Bone broth made at home never makes me feel good - I try to have slow cooked stocks from free range animals though only 3 hour simmered.

I'm also trying to stick to easy to digest things - warm milk, stewed fruit, slow cooked meat and root vegetables, very ripe tropical fruit.

Are you feeling better or still having problems?

I'm feeling much better but still have flare ups once in a while. I've heard people have success with Align probiotic.

 

[Madato]

Due to some infection problems, in the last month I have had a large amount of antibiotics. Three days on IV broad spectrum amoxycillin and metronidazole, then two seperate 5 days courses of amoxyclav. Plus topical clyndamycin and antifungal cream for the, ahem, side effects of the antibiotics.

I have also had a seven day course of oral nystatin drops and two "single dose" flucanozole oral pills for further anti fungals.

My tummy and intestines copped a beating from it all and are really tender. I'm a bit exhausted and tired and wondering whether i need to do a serious gut repair diet or just give it more time to feel better. It hurts to poke my lower abdomen. The first few weeks I had loose BM but the last two weeks they are been solid, but like seven times a day... so much poop.

I haven't taken a lot of probiotics, just twice a week i take a primal flora, as I'm wary of them these days, especially since I'm hoping now my small intestine will be quite sterile... I tried to eat plenty of carrots and drank a lot of mineral water whilst i was on all these as well to clean it all out.

I think I should be eating slow cooked meats off the bone, warm milk and stewed fruit for a while? I'm tired and can't figure out a plan, so any advice would be great.

(ps tests show no infections left... yay)

I think you don’t quite realize what you’re in for if you want to completely heal from the damages you inflicted to your body with that amount of antibiotics. (I’ve been there for the past two years and will explain you what happened and how I cured myself)

What you did is:

- damage your gut lining
- threw out of whack the proper balance of your gut, your bad bacteria is a lot higher than the good ones

You still don’t feel the wrath of it yet as you just got « cured » from your infection, but what is slowly building up is way more devastating than your infection: the damaged gut lining will not allow good bacteria to settle, the growing bad bacteria will further damage the gut lining, and you see how that vicious circle works.

Step 1: eliminate (at least 2 months)

- avoid gluten, dairy, sugar
- take caprylic acid, berberine, gse extract and nystatin. Drop the nystatin after two months
- perform colonic hydrotherapy at least once a week to clean your colon from bad bacteria and candida

Step 2: replace

- take at least 150 billion units probiotics a day, comprised of at least 20 different strains (yes they are expensive)
- consume lots of fiber and psyllium to drain the dead bacteria down your gut

Step 3: repair

- consume whey protein, colostrum, collagen powder, and glutamine

You don’t have to perform these steps in a sequential order, you could group them together for best results.
But if you do split them, KEEP THEM IN THAT ORDER.


EXTRA:

I don’t necessarily recommend you do this, but I personnaly added 5iu growth hormone / day for 6 months to speed up the gut lining recovery process, and IT WORKED.


The whole process I’ve described will take anywhere from 8 months to 2 years before you can say you regained your pre-antibiotic health.

Don’t think you’re cured just yet with the little you’ve done

 

[Constatine]

I think you don’t quite realize what you’re in for if you want to completely heal from the damages you inflicted to your body with that amount of antibiotics. (I’ve been there for the past two years and will explain you what happened and how I cured myself)

What you did is:

- damage your gut lining
- threw out of whack the proper balance of your gut, your bad bacteria is a lot higher than the good ones

You still don’t feel the wrath of it yet as you just got « cured » from your infection, but what is slowly building up is way more devastating than your infection: the damaged gut lining will not allow good bacteria to settle, the growing bad bacteria will further damage the gut lining, and you see how that vicious circle works.

Step 1: eliminate (at least 2 months)

- avoid gluten, dairy, sugar
- take caprylic acid, berberine, gse extract and nystatin. Drop the nystatin after two months
- perform colonic hydrotherapy at least once a week to clean your colon from bad bacteria and candida

Step 2: replace

- take at least 150 billion units probiotics a day, comprised of at least 20 different strains (yes they are expensive)
- consume lots of fiber and psyllium to drain the dead bacteria down your gut

Step 3: repair

- consume whey protein, colostrum, collagen powder, and glutamine

You don’t have to perform these steps in a sequential order, you could group them together for best results.
But if you do split them, KEEP THEM IN THAT ORDER.


EXTRA:

I don’t necessarily recommend you do this, but I personnaly added 5iu growth hormone / day for 6 months to speed up the gut lining recovery process, and IT WORKED.


The whole process I’ve described will take anywhere from 8 months to 2 years before you can say you regained your pre-antibiotic health.

Don’t think you’re cured just yet with the little you’ve done

Good advice. I would add vitamin D (in reasonable amounts) with the other fat soluble vitamins.

 

[HDD]

@HDD, Thanks for the Peat interview link, which I read. Now, after reading these last few posts since mine, not sure about getting into probiotics, but maybe stick to Peat’s ideas, overall thyroid health, good metabolism. Being in a compromised state of health and having to deal with doctors today really makes you question their understanding now more than ever , sadly.

Can you link me to more information on “bacteriophages”? Wasn’t able to readily find anything about them.

I wish you improvement in your health issues, and thank you for your response.

Thank you. The bacteriophage products that Ray Peat has recommend are Florassist and Floraphage. Life Extension carries Florassist and I believe it is probiotics and bacteriophages. I purchased Floraphage at Vitamin Shoppe and it is only bacteriophages. I have not taken either one but @Peatful had good success with Florassist (IIRC).

 

[Kray]

Thank you. The bacteriophage products that Ray Peat has recommend are Florassist and Floraphage. Life Extension carries Florassist and I believe it is probiotics and bacteriophages. I purchased Floraphage at Vitamin Shoppe and it is only bacteriophages. I have not taken either one but @Peatful had good success with Florassist (IIRC).

@HDD, Great information, thank you, they look promising! Glad I hadn’t gone to pick up VSL#3 yet, will hold off. It’s also encouraging that Ray Peat recommends these products.

Can I ask- do you plan to do only the phage formula because you are opposed to probiotics, or more because that’s all you have on hand? Are phages alone sufficient to help the body bring itself back to balance without need to reintroduce particular strains? The Floraphage reads like it is meant to work with a probiotic formula alongside, so just curious about taking alone. I must admit, the combo seems to be a convenience, all-in-one product, and more than that might overwhelm my hubby since he’s already got a laundry list of things he takes.

I might give LEF a call to ask more about their formula, will let you know what I find out.

Thanks a bunch again.

 

[HDD]

@HDD, Great information, thank you, they look promising! Glad I hadn’t gone to pick up VSL#3 yet, will hold off. It’s also encouraging that Ray Peat recommends these products.

Can I ask- do you plan to do only the phage formula because you are opposed to probiotics, or more because that’s all you have on hand? Are phages alone sufficient to help the body bring itself back to balance without need to reintroduce particular strains? The Floraphage reads like it is meant to work with a probiotic formula alongside, so just curious about taking alone. I must admit, the combo seems to be a convenience, all-in-one product, and more than that might overwhelm my hubby since he’s already got a laundry list of things he takes.

I might give LEF a call to ask more about their formula, will let you know what I find out.

Thanks a bunch again.

I haven't done any probiotics or cultured foods since finding Peat. However, since he has recently been recommending the products with bacteriophages, I would use either product. I bought the Florassist first and my husband took the whole bottle ( I don't recall why he took them). I originally was going to take the Floraphage to combat the uti, but have now started them since I think I might have a yeast problem and also want to make sure the uti is gone. I don't know if they will work but I'm mainly using it because it's what I have in my pharmacy.

 

[Kray]

I haven't done any probiotics or cultured foods since finding Peat. However, since he has recently been recommending the products with bacteriophages, I would use either product. I bought the Florassist first and my husband took the whole bottle ( I don't recall why he took them). I originally was going to take the Floraphage to combat the uti, but have now started them since I think I might have a yeast problem and also want to make sure the uti is gone. I don't know if they will work but I'm mainly using it because it's what I have in my pharmacy.

Your husband sounds a lot like my husband lol! Anyway, I appreciate the clarification. I did just order the LEF product, and I hope the one you have will do the trick. Good to have around when those nasty utis come to roost. Btw, have you ever tried this supplement? I think it works well to ward off first signs if you keep it going long enough, and many use it as preventive Now Foods, D-Mannose Pure Powder, 3 oz (85 g)

Thanks again, hope you’re back to normal soon!

 

[peep]

Only Probiotics wont help you that long. You need them only as a "starter"
Good gut bacteria wants to be fed. Without food bacteria is back to old count in 2 weeks. With soluble fiber the good will increase on its own.

So you need to eat lots of soluble fiber that can be fermented like inulin, pectin, resistant starch.
Fiber like psyllium husks (insoluble fiber) is more to increase stool volume + clean out the gut of bad bacteria / endotoxin. (Ofc some good go with it) Ray Peat recommends Carrot salad for that.

Good bacteria (esp. bifido,prausnitzii and lactobacteria) will fight badbacteria / endotoxin if you got enough of it. + rebuilds your epithelial layer and intestinal barrier ! (by producing Butyrate)


I know lots of people on here do have the idea of having low as possible bacteria count in the gut. But thats just not right. Sure low endotoxin is good. But if you have enough "good" bacteria it will help you to stay in a good homeostasis to keep "bad" things (bacteria, pathogen) from increasing.

@Madato Very good tips! One thing I wanted to ad with my text is the difference between fermentable / unfermentable and soluble/ unsoluble.

 

[walker_in_aus]

I think you don’t quite realize what you’re in for if you want to completely heal from the damages you inflicted to your body with that amount of antibiotics. (I’ve been there for the past two years and will explain you what happened and how I cured myself)

What you did is:

- damage your gut lining
- threw out of whack the proper balance of your gut, your bad bacteria is a lot higher than the good ones

You still don’t feel the wrath of it yet as you just got « cured » from your infection, but what is slowly building up is way more devastating than your infection: the damaged gut lining will not allow good bacteria to settle, the growing bad bacteria will further damage the gut lining, and you see how that vicious circle works.

Step 1: eliminate (at least 2 months)

- avoid gluten, dairy, sugar
- take caprylic acid, berberine, gse extract and nystatin. Drop the nystatin after two months
- perform colonic hydrotherapy at least once a week to clean your colon from bad bacteria and candida

Step 2: replace

- take at least 150 billion units probiotics a day, comprised of at least 20 different strains (yes they are expensive)
- consume lots of fiber and psyllium to drain the dead bacteria down your gut

Step 3: repair

- consume whey protein, colostrum, collagen powder, and glutamine

You don’t have to perform these steps in a sequential order, you could group them together for best results.
But if you do split them, KEEP THEM IN THAT ORDER.


EXTRA:

I don’t necessarily recommend you do this, but I personnaly added 5iu growth hormone / day for 6 months to speed up the gut lining recovery process, and IT WORKED.


The whole process I’ve described will take anywhere from 8 months to 2 years before you can say you regained your pre-antibiotic health.

Don’t think you’re cured just yet with the little you’ve done

Thanks for all this information. I do understand where I'm at and I appreciate the tips! My pre antibiotic gut health was not great anyway but what you've recommended sounds good. The last few weeks I've been avoiding starch, don't eat gluten anyway. I can't agree with no sugar as it's what got me into trouble in the first place. I think honey and ripe fruit is safe enough and more easily absorbed by me rather than gut critters. I was taking NAC on and off (biofilm killer) so I think that combined with antifungals and the caprylic acid will have kept bad bacteria/yeast from really exploding. I also have some IR sauna sessions booked - really anti fungal! I did eat carrot a lot and charcoal once the last few weeks and I am certainly being cleaned out. Colonic irrigation i also don't agree with - I think it can damage your colon and upset the muscles that naturally do the elimination. I have two probiotics I took occasionally that add up to 18 strains with a focus on the butryrate producing strains. I will take more of them now, maybe try florassist again. Didn't do much last time! I just got colostrum so I'll be adding that in too.