I think I may have finally fixed my digestion

Mauritio

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I'm on day 2 of doing the MSM and slippery elm.
Just 400mg.
Yesterday I felt quite fine.
Today I started noticing some side effects: irritability (especially after food), restlessness, feeling insecure, food cravings, hypoglycemia,brain fog, tiredness,...

Those are the exact symptoms you'll read when researching candida "die-off". I already saw a few candida strains in my toilet. So it seems to be working.
I just wouldn't have thought that such a small dose would give me symptoms of this magnitude.

Yesterday I thought the slippery elm irritated my gut a little. So today I'll try it without the slippery elm.

I'm still taking butyrate with it, which seems to help a bit.
 

cs3000

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And for ppl wondering about the undecylenate Vs SF722 if unavailable . From what I read the undecylenate form sounds good but it needs to be paired with an acid increaser and a capsule that can bypass the stomach . Maybe the Swanson version wasn't effective for the person who posted because it only contains a small amount of betaine and the capsule tech might not be good enough. Thornes version has more betaine and "time sorb" capsules so maybe better

Something i wanna add to this - actually it's probably a ****88 up idea to formulate it this way so i don't recommend it.

if u can find their old SF722 formula it's different but i've noticed an increased level of burning in my gut lately and pretty sure it's this new formulation. looking into it betaine hcl is pretty strong at increasing acidity / lowering pH - well their capsules are made to bypass the stomach and usually the gut isn't exposed to high acidity after the stomach it turns a lot less acidic. so this way the betaine is increasing acid in the intestines & probably ******* up the already irritated lining from gut issues

-
Update is so far i've been on that (gonna get rid of it i think & replace with 2 days of fluconazole to see if anything noticeable after, if it works will get the old sf722 formula for maintenance), + ~3g-6g MSM daily so far, and marshmallow root liquid (good properties but does not form mucliage as well as slippery elm is supposed to it's more like a watery syrup). i also added artichoke extract today (looks good but does lower cholesterol a lot over time) https://naturalpharma.bio/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/kraft1997.pdf,

no changes so far (no appetite, have been constipated for the past 3 weeks with practically no natural bowel movements, gut burning etc), but it's early days still. 1 thing i will say is at the start of this when i was trying slippery elm too i did notice an unusual short spike in appetite after taking it. so i'd still bet on that as the appetite thing but was too short term to say -
so might look again for a product that does form the gel or maybe just try the non-gel forming brands until i find one (guess the harsh grains would probably be dealt with in the stomach?)

will update if i notice any significant improvements.
 
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Mauritio

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Something i wanna add to this - actually it's probably a ****88 up idea to formulate it this way so i don't recommend it.

if u can find their old SF722 formula it's different but i've noticed an increased level of burning in my gut lately and pretty sure it's this new formulation. looking into it betaine hcl is pretty strong at increasing acidity / lowering pH - well their capsules are made to bypass the stomach and usually the gut isn't exposed to high acidity after the stomach it turns a lot less acidic. so this way the betaine is increasing acid in the intestines & probably ******* up the already irritated lining from gut issues

-
Update is so far i've been on that (gonna get rid of it i think & replace with 2 days of fluconazole to see if anything noticeable after, if it works will get the old sf722 formula for maintenance), + ~3g-5g MSM daily so far, and marshmallow root liquid (good properties but does not form mucliage as well as slippery elm is supposed to it's more like a watery syrup). i also added artichoke extract today (looks good but does lower cholesterol a lot over time) https://naturalpharma.bio/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/kraft1997.pdf,

no changes so far (no appetite, have been constipated for the past 3 weeks with practically no natural bowel movements, gut burning etc), but it's early days still. 1 thing i will say is at the start of this when i was trying slippery elm too i did notice an unusual short spike in appetite after taking it. so i'd still bet on that as the appetite thing but was too short term to say - will look again for a product that does form the gel

will update if i notice any significant improvements.
Wow how can you handle 4g MSM without detox ??

I'm just at day3 of taking 400mg
Feeling a lot better today. Yesterday I was quite a mess. Left out the slippery elm yesterday which reduced the gut irritation a lot.

I noticed that the CO2 bath was the only thing that helped with the supposed die off symptoms, also took a bit molybdenum which might have helped .

My hairloss is reduced a lot . For me there is a strong correlation with gut health.
So I'm happy that I dont feel as bad as yesterday, although I slept very bad . I think it was the butyrate so I wont take it today.
 

cs3000

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Wow how can you handle 4g MSM without detox ??

I'm just at day3 of taking 400mg
Feeling a lot better today. Yesterday I was quite a mess. Left out the slippery elm yesterday which reduced the gut irritation a lot.

I noticed that the CO2 bath was the only thing that helped with the supposed die off symptoms, also took a bit molybdenum which might have helped .

My hairloss is reduced a lot . For me there is a strong correlation with gut health.
So I'm happy that I dont feel as bad as yesterday, although I slept very bad . I think it was the butyrate so I wont take it today.
my state of health is so whacked out rn i probably wouldnt be able to tell the difference between standard & a detox state lol. OP mentioned building up to a tablespoon but not sure on safety of that yet havent looked. who knows may turn out my issue isnt fungal but i'll find out soon enough.

were you mixing the slippery elm into a gel or just having it as powder?
mine's still shedding but i think the shedding has been a little less wild since starting yeah
 
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Mauritio

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my state of health is so whacked out rn i probably wouldnt be able to tell the difference between standard & a detox state lol. OP mentioned building up to a tablespoon but not sure on safety of that yet havent looked. who knows may turn out my issue isnt fungal but i'll find out soon enough.

were you mixing the slippery elm into a gel or just having it as powder?
mine's still shedding but i think the shedding has been a little less wild since starting yeah
Oh okay. Good luck to you.

Up to 4g per day per person , are generally regarded as safe.

Once I finished reading it ,i will soon post a good review on MSM that answers a lot of questions. As it turns out msm is actually quite well studied.

I was mixing it . But I was also using a fraudulent powder, so I guess it was more due to that . As you said it doesnt seem easy to get a good quality slippery elm powder. So I'll leave it out for now.
 

Mauritio

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Osukhan

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ive just started with PHGG, Thorne's sf722, and MSM yesterday. I believe i have had on off issues over the years with candida, i would get a lot of white patches / discoloration on my back. i also have had issues with things like jock itch in the past as well, and psoriasis. looking forward to trying this regime out.
ive used cell core foundations protocol but i dont really know if i saw any improvements. i did feel like continued use of the red light helped
 

cs3000

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Mauritio

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Update:
Felt worse again these last days, today is better again. I think CO2 baths and molybdenum helps.
My hair is a lot better and I often see candida strains in the toilet.
 

cs3000

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Oh okay. Good luck to you.

Up to 4g per day per person , are generally regarded as safe.

Once I finished reading it ,i will soon post a good review on MSM that answers a lot of questions. As it turns out msm is actually quite well studied.

I was mixing it . But I was also using a fraudulent powder, so I guess it was more due to that . As you said it doesnt seem easy to get a good quality slippery elm powder. So I'll leave it out for now.
some more info on the elm,
I messaged some brands, 1 said their slippery elm does not form a gel "due to containing maltodextrin polysaccharide" (even though it's not listed in ingredients on any of them so i guess it's naturally occurring in the way some of the brands get it?).

another said "we have been selling Slippery Elm Powder for over 30 years. The Slippery Elm Powder we supply is 100% powdered bark of the tree, we often receive queries about how the material mixes and complaints that it is not mixing in the way people think it should, batches may vary from time to time but this never affects the quality of the material it may affect the way it mixes e.g it could go lumpy but there is no right or wrong way for how it forms. Please do not judge on its visible state as this has no bearing on its efficacy." - So batches do affect the way it mixes, and they're not aware on the need for it to form mucilage. asked recent customers on amazon for some of the selling brands & the ones that responded said no gel.

Looking at videos the common brand i saw that made the gel is starwest botanicals, but it's an american brand. one formed the gel in hot water within minutes. another vid put 1 cup water to 1 tsp slippery elm, let it sit for a bit then brang the water to a boil while stirring continually. formed the gel within 15 minutes.

MSM alone has not given benefit for my gut during this time personally (marshmallow root isn't real mucilage to get it low though). maybe helped with focus and mood stability a little not sure. will drop for a bit as intent on starting chelation soon if cascara works for daily bowel movements and sulfur stuff is supposed to be dropped during this as it's a weaker binding of metals that doesn't bond them for as long as other stuff used.
maybe the elm mucilage is actually the real help for the gut (possibly even alone), or the sf722. back to back days of fluconazole has not helped either so it's either not fungal for me (tongue coating and especially in response to sugar is odd though), or is a resistant strain. Still want to try the elm in mucilage form.
 
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Vileplume

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back to back days of fluconazole has not helped either so it's either not fungal for me (tongue coating and especially in response to sugar is odd though), or is a resistant strain. Still want to try the elm in mucilage form.
Do you think the increased white coating on your tongue from the sugar could be from a bacterial issue, instead of fungal?

I think sugar increases the white tongue for me too, but I still need to test it more to verify.
 

LadyRae

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Do you think the increased white coating on your tongue from the sugar could be from a bacterial issue, instead of fungal?

I think sugar increases the white tongue for me too, but I still need to test it more to verify.
My naturopath always told me that a white coated tongue was from a sluggish liver.
 

cs3000

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Do you think the increased white coating on your tongue from the sugar could be from a bacterial issue, instead of fungal?

I think sugar increases the white tongue for me too, but I still need to test it more to verify.
yeah might be either, i noticed it more with sugar water especially. most commonly fungal i think not sure if bacteria gets to visible scale on tongue do you know? i've also noticed a sore looking round part on the side of it recently so some bull**** is going down on there something's having a party

there's copper tongue scrapers around so thats one option for management for people not high in copper levels , as copper is anti-bacterial
liver function came back good in a general blood test i just had , in my case anyway
 

Vileplume

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My naturopath always told me that a white coated tongue was from a sluggish liver.
The weird thing is that the white tongue comes and goes for 3-4 day chunks. I wouldn't think liver function would fluctuate so immediately like that? But maybe it does.

yeah might be either, i noticed it more with sugar water especially. most commonly fungal i think not sure if bacteria gets to visible scale on tongue do you know? i've also noticed a sore looking round part on the side of it recently so some bull**** is going down on there something's having a party

there's copper tongue scrapers around so thats one option for management for people not high in copper levels , as copper is anti-bacterial
liver function came back good in a general blood test i just had , in my case anyway
I think bacteria does cause a white coating. In fact, plaque (like all around our teeth and stuff) is mostly made of bacteria. I'm doing a 4-day no white sugar experiment to see if the coating goes away.
 

PeskyPeater

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white tongue is an effect from a mild to severe form of SIBO. Dr Peat said to keep your upper intestinal tract clean with antibiotics, not the colon, that is an misconception. This whit tongue can be from sluggish thyroid function suppressed by stress PUFA and estrogen. And related to a sub optimal working digestive system with reversed peristalsis from food congestion.
 

cs3000

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white tongue is an effect from a mild to severe form of SIBO. Dr Peat said to keep your upper intestinal tract clean with antibiotics, not the colon, that is an misconception. This whit tongue can be from sluggish thyroid function suppressed by stress PUFA and estrogen. And related to a sub optimal working digestive system with reversed peristalsis from food congestion.

How do you just target the small intestine without the colon? my thyroid/metabolism is ok. i just read up Hypothyroidism, Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth, & Lactose Intolerance – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

so ray says small intestine is supposed to be sterile. eating sugar ordinarily does not feed gut bacteria/fungus much as it's absorbed quick in the small intestine, where starches & fibers take longer so has longer to feed stuff there.
so if you get a negative gut response to high sugar intake it probably means you have significant bacteria or fungus in the small intestine as even quick exposure is enough to feed a decent amount of it, (or not fast enough sugar digestion there for some reason?)

Ray mentions increasing stomach acid & peristalsis. but stomach acid is neutralized by the time it gets to small intestine so how would that help?
 
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Mossy

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Today I started noticing some side effects: irritability (especially after food), restlessness, feeling insecure, food cravings, hypoglycemia,brain fog, tiredness,...
MSM can cause sleep trouble. It does with me.
 

PeskyPeater

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How do you just target the small intestine without the colon? my thyroid/metabolism is ok. i just read up Hypothyroidism, Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth, & Lactose Intolerance – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
Using emodin and tetracyclin and camphor in moderation. The colon has such high amounts of microbes it takes 3 different antibiotics to effectively reduce their count and endotoxin load, using those anti biotics moderately for the upper tract should not be detrimental to the colon microbiome.

The stomach acid is one of the barriers of protection, acting to kill microbes from the environment or food entering the mouth and stomach, certain kinds don't survive the low pH of the acid, but the further down the tract the less acidic it becomes .
 

cs3000

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Using emodin and tetracyclin and camphor in moderation. The colon has such high amounts of microbes it takes 3 different antibiotics to effectively reduce their count and endotoxin load, using those anti biotics moderately for the upper tract should not be detrimental to the colon microbiome.

The stomach acid is one of the barriers of protection, acting to kill microbes from the environment or food entering the mouth and stomach, certain kinds don't survive the low pH of the acid, but the further down the tract the less acidic it becomes .
thanks. annoyingly trying to kill bacteria often causes fungal overgrowth in its place (common with antibiotics). and on the other side fungus doesn't mind acidic environment & trying to kill it with sulfur stuff can help bacteria grow as it utilizes sulfur. might try the shredded carrots talked about here but not sure how big of an effect they can have
 

SamYo123

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How do you just target the small intestine without the colon? my thyroid/metabolism is ok. i just read up Hypothyroidism, Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth, & Lactose Intolerance – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

so ray says small intestine is supposed to be sterile. eating sugar ordinarily does not feed gut bacteria/fungus much as it's absorbed quick in the small intestine, where starches & fibers take longer so has longer to feed stuff there.
so if you get a negative gut response to high sugar intake it probably means you have significant bacteria or fungus in the small intestine as even quick exposure is enough to feed a decent amount of it, (or not fast enough sugar digestion there for some reason?)

Ray mentions increasing stomach acid & peristalsis. but stomach acid is neutralized by the time it gets to small intestine so how would that help?
And the only way to poop for some is feeding bacteria via fiber..
 

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