A Truly Fiber Free Diet, Sustainable?

[Jayfish]

I want to get opinions on if a fiber free diet is possible long term and even healthy when it comes to transit through the digestive tract without fiber to bulk it up.

I asked Ray Peat this question in an email and his response was "I have been on a fiber free diet for years". This was surprising to hear because I think a lot of us think that RP eats some fiber. Carrots, mushrooms, turnips, etc are all things we've heard Peat mention in his diet. I asked him to elaborate but he did not respond back, in classic Peat fashion.

Right now my diet is very sugar, protein and saturated fat based. Mainly beef and lamb, seafood, dairy, orange juice, coconut water, soda, sugar. Some eggs and chocolate. Even with these foods I am getting a bit of fiber from chocolate and maybe OJ even though it's pulp free.

I do believe milk has a form of soluble fiber in it as well?

I rrally enjoy this way of eating and seem to need a lot of protein so this works well. I'm just concerned about long term effects. For TMI, I only poop once a day and it is small but very easy to pass, I'm guessing from the fat. It's also very pale which I'm guessing must be the dairy fiber.

Does anything have any insight? Does anyone eat similar to this?

 

[YuraCZ]

You can't detox without fiber. Liver needs some fiber. Without fiber you will reabsorb toxins, estrogens etc.. How much fiber. Is highly individual.

 

[Jayfish]

You can't detox without fiber. Liver needs some fiber. Without fiber you will reabsorb toxins, estrogens etc.. How much fiber. Is highly individual.

Well the digestive tract isn't the only way the body eliminates toxins.

What about the Masaai, only drinking milk and blood for their young adult life?

 

[jyb]

Well the digestive tract isn't the only way the body eliminates toxins.

What about the Masaai, only drinking milk and blood for their young adult life?

Meat contains some kind of fibre. Also, I read Ray writes milk is "bulking" in the digestive tract. So I have no idea the extent to which vegetable fibres are necessary to eliminate toxins. I personally find carrots helpful, though.

 

[Peater Piper]

I doubt you need much fiber for detox purposes, but some bile turnover is probably a good thing. I haven't read extensively about the Maasai, but it sounds like they've typically eaten more fruits and vegetables than was originally reported, and the Inuits were consuming something like fiber by eating uncooked animal products. Honey contains oligosaccharides that some people suspect is the reason for many of its benefits. There's also bacteria that will consume mucus in the intestines when no other food source is available. I don't know whether going fiber free long-term would be unhealthy or not, but you're basically making yourself a test subject since there's so few people that have undertaken that type of diet.

 

[mt_dreams]

Unless ray is not drinking orange juice anymore, there's soluble fiber in the juice. Even 3 or 4 grams of fiber will do the trick, you don't need much. As long as you don't ingest estrogen, you could probably get away with very little to no fiber.

 

[John Frusciante]

he filters the fibers

 

[XPlus]

I think that depends on the health of your GI and the quality of the food.
There were times when I had good digestion with little starch in my diet and times when I felt good without any starch and fiber - especially after using antibiotics for few days.
When I started making cottage cheese, I used to over boil and over acidify the milk. So that kind of left a lot of undigestability traces behind.
Also, the fat-free milk isn't very digestible in my experience.
I find food that is not tasty difficult to digest, even if it's supposedly "Peaty".

 

[mt_dreams]

he filters the fibers

How so? I assumed from the 'soluble' wording that's it has been dissolved into the water.

 

[lindsay]

Last time I emailed RP he mentioned eating candied peel - I was asking him about well cooked marmalade. I don't know how often he eats the stuff, but it certainly is fibrous. Personally, I cannot function without some fiber in my diet. I just try to stick with things RP generally recommends, like carrots & oranges.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I find it really odd that he said that to you in an email. He doesn’t eat raw carrot every day but he does recommend it to everyone who calls in. Besides carrot, he’s mentioned all of the following as good foods: tropical fruits (of which the majority of your calories should come, 1996 Null interview) bamboo shoots, small turnips, leafy greens, mushrooms, all pure fiber foods. He does eat fiber from raw carrot, bamboo shoots, whole fruits, small turnips and mushrooms. Less than two years ago: 20 Questions With Ray Peat

and the mushrooms as of late from the DR interviews.

He doesn’t consume the leaves, just the boiled extract, but he has recommended the whole leaves to others:

“Foods with a higher, safer ratio of calcium to phosphate are leaves, such as kale, turnip greens, and beet greens, and many fruits, milk, and cheese."

Plants' "protective Mechanisms"

In my opinion, fiber deficiency is the biggest problem that people face with their diets. When you say the word "fiber" the first thing that comes to peoples mind is gross "Fiber One" cereal or something like it but that's because like most things in nutrition, the public has no clue about anything. Peat has said that ideally he would get most of his calories from whole fruits and he does eat tropical fruits. That is high fiber. Fruit fiber. For me, a combination of fruit and starch fiber works. I also consume the daily raw carrot which is fiber, and Peat once mentioned the fiber of bamboo shoots for the same effect. People don't understand fiber. Potatoes and other roots are fiber. Rice is fiber, even white rice that has had the brown shell removed is still fiber. Green leaves are fiber. Even fresh coconut meat which is high fat is fiber. People wonder why they are constipated.

More fiber and bigger poop decreases estrogen

People run to get prunes and prune juice when they can't take a poop because they don't eat enough fiber.

 

[Jayfish]

Westside, unfortunately I cannot get quality fruits at all and I believe unripe fruit to be very bad for digestion.

I'm certainly not constipated eating a fiber free diet, and I actually must be getting 5-10g fiber through all my sources so I don't know how possible a fiber free diet even really is. I have read of a man who ate only steak for 30 some years and he was fine. I think that's an anomaly but still it shows that it's possible.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Well anyone who can't get fruits should still find a decent OJ for some fructose/simple sugars. To answer your original question, no, I don't think it is healthy long term because I think you increase the chance of diverticulitis and colon cancer.

 

[Jayfish]

Well anyone who can't get fruits should still find a decent OJ for some fructose/simple sugars. To answer your original question, no, I don't think it is healthy long term because I think you increase the chance of diverticulitis and colon cancer.

I drink a good amount of organic oj, Uncle Matts brand. Also a good amount of coconut water which may have some fiber but it doesn't say.

Colon cancer would maybe be a concern although I believe cancer to be a manifestion of subpar metabolism and/or pufa, heavy metals and toxins. I don't think I buy into red meat causing cancer, certainly not the stuff I eat. Diverticulitis is caused by excessive exertion when trying to push, yea? Only if I started to be constipated will I worry about that.

I guess there are not very many instances of a fiber free diet out there.

 

[Ewelina]

Westside, unfortunately I cannot get quality fruits at all and I believe unripe fruit to be very bad for digestion.

I'm certainly not constipated eating a fiber free diet, and I actually must be getting 5-10g fiber through all my sources so I don't know how possible a fiber free diet even really is. I have read of a man who ate only steak for 30 some years and he was fine. I think that's an anomaly but still it shows that it's possible.

I agree 100%. Unripe fruit and coconut flour ruined my gut. I used to be on a very low fiber diet for over 10 years and I had perfect digestion and transit. As for colon cancer, there are many studies pointing towards positive correlation between higher fiber consumption and colon cancer (and I don't mean oat bran and other floor swipes).

 

[Richiebogie]

Kent Rieske has some interesting thoughts against fibre:

"The reason most doctors, nutritionists, the USDA Food Guide Pyramid, and the official USFDA Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) recommend a high-fiber diet is based on the faulty logic of Dr. Dennis Burkitt, a British surgeon working in Africa more than half a century ago. Dr. Burkitt's theory that barley bread prevented inflammatory bowel diseases has led to the current dietary fiber theory. Dr. Burkitt's fiber theory was developed in the late 1960's and was based on a impromptu hunch that fiber in the diet accounted for the difference in digestion system health between his African patients and white Englishmen living in Africa and England. His opinion was not based on any scientific studies. He did not perform controlled tests. He did not isolate the groups with only fiber as the variable. His assumption that fiber in the diet made his African patients healthier was wrong."

Dietary Fiber Theory. Scientific Proof Fiber in the Diet is Unhealthy.

 

[nomoreketones]

From a gut bacteria lens:

Most of the "health experts" out there recommend fiber to feed the gut biome.
For example, Fiber-Famished Gut Microbes Linked to Poor Health

But Ray Peat advocates a sterile gut. I cannot find a link for this so if I am wrong please correct me. Also, carrots supposedly don't feed gut bacteria and that is one reason Ray Peat likes carrots.

My thinking on this is people who have a good mix of bacteria will do well with fiber to feed the bacteria. People with a undesirable gut bacteria ecosystem might do better with a Ray Peat approach. This last paragraph is purely speculation and I do not have anything to back it up.

 

[Peater Piper]

Carrots do feed gut bacteria though, to a significant degree. When you add vinegar and coconut oil to it, it may change things, but people get really mixed results from the carrot salad. The ones that notice improvement may be positively feeding their gut biome, while those that don't may be struggling with dysbiosis that the carrots are making worse.

 

[Vita3]

My bowel movement was great on a higher fiber diet, very regular.

Ray eats fiber, otherwise he wouldn't advice carrot salad, he eats whole fruits as well and lots mushrooms.

 

[lvysaur]

More fiber and bigger poop decreases estrogen

People run to get prunes and prune juice when they can't take a poop because they don't eat enough fiber.

A vegetarian diet would increase estrogen through bacterial fermentation, so it only makes sense that there's increased excretion of it.

The only fiber in my diet is from occasional raw carrots and fresh squeezed OJ. The rest of my diet is milk, cheese, sugar, coffee, and gelatin. My poop is more regular and awesome than it's ever been.

When I start eating leaves/lentils, I get strong symptoms of endotoxin/estrogen, including gas and anxiety, fatigue, and compensatory virilization of the masculine traits. **** fiber.