Stopping Or Reducing Dietary Fiber Intake Reduces Constipation And Its Associated Symptoms

Zpol

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Stopping or reducing dietary fiber intake reduces constipation and its associated symptoms

I can't figure out why this study has not gotten more publicity. All (yes 100%) of the participants who did the no-fiber protocol nearly eliminated their idiopathic constipation (started having one bm per day with no issues!) and reported zero, yes zero!, bloating. They did not include people that have thyroid issues though or have had prior bowel surgeries.
In relation to other diets for gut healing (low FODMAP, Fast-tract, etc) which are basically low in fiber but not no-fiber, this diet protocol specified the participants maintain normal amount of carbs which they were instructed to get from sieved juice and clear soup. Those other diets are so low carb that they are very detrimental to health. With the exception of SCD which includes grape juice and apple cider in the stage one.

Anyone know if this study has been repeated or written about in any journals?

Anyone tried this or have more information about this study?

As we know, Mr. Peat is not a lover of fiber, and his dietary suggestions are foods low in fiber but this study shows that NO-fiber is better yet. According to the data, the no-fiber group improved to 1 bm per day and the low-fiber group had improvement to 1 bm every 2 to 6 days, which I would still consider this to be constipation.

For me, I have been following Mr. Peat's suggestions as much as possible, minus the dairy and liver as they don't agree with me. But I have been eating well cooked potatoes and tropical fruits as carb sources.
I'm thinking I'll eliminate these and do the potato water and strained juices only for carbs.

Again, mind blown that this isn't a well known study as all 41 of the no-fiber group improved so drastically. Usually it takes around 80% of participants to show improvement for a study to be considered statistically significant, but this is 100%!
Maybe because it was such a small group. I don't know but I'd really be interested to learn more about it and find out if it has been replicated.
 
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one motion in 1.0 d (± 0.0 d) (P < 0.001)

Atomic clocks lol? I had no problem going to the bathroom once a day on no fiber diet. There are obviously other things in milk that stay there until the end, or maybe it's just the bacteria forming bulk.
 

tara

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Zpol

Zpol

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The participants were all people who weren't responding to high fiber diets but unfortunately the study doesn't indicate any further specifics of their prior diets. So presumably they all had slow motility type constipation not the more typical kind due poor diet.

The first time I did low carb it was low fiber coincidentally, my constipation did improve, the second time it did not and I became extremely sick due to protein dumping.

I'm going to give it a whirl. Just hope it doesn't make anything worse. My body is a magical freak of nature so it will be interesting to see what happens.
 

EIRE24

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Stopping or reducing dietary fiber intake reduces constipation and its associated symptoms

I can't figure out why this study has not gotten more publicity. All (yes 100%) of the participants who did the no-fiber protocol nearly eliminated their idiopathic constipation (started having one bm per day with no issues!) and reported zero, yes zero!, bloating. They did not include people that have thyroid issues though or have had prior bowel surgeries.
In relation to other diets for gut healing (low FODMAP, Fast-tract, etc) which are basically low in fiber but not no-fiber, this diet protocol specified the participants maintain normal amount of carbs which they were instructed to get from sieved juice and clear soup. Those other diets are so low carb that they are very detrimental to health. With the exception of SCD which includes grape juice and apple cider in the stage one.

Anyone know if this study has been repeated or written about in any journals?

Anyone tried this or have more information about this study?

As we know, Mr. Peat is not a lover of fiber, and his dietary suggestions are foods low in fiber but this study shows that NO-fiber is better yet. According to the data, the no-fiber group improved to 1 bm per day and the low-fiber group had improvement to 1 bm every 2 to 6 days, which I would still consider this to be constipation.

For me, I have been following Mr. Peat's suggestions as much as possible, minus the dairy and liver as they don't agree with me. But I have been eating well cooked potatoes and tropical fruits as carb sources.
I'm thinking I'll eliminate these and do the potato water and strained juices only for carbs.

Again, mind blown that this isn't a well known study as all 41 of the no-fiber group improved so drastically. Usually it takes around 80% of participants to show improvement for a study to be considered statistically significant, but this is 100%!
Maybe because it was such a small group. I don't know but I'd really be interested to learn more about it and find out if it has been replicated.
You say liver does not agree with you? In what way?
 
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Zpol

Zpol

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say liver does not agree with you? In what way?

Extreme heartburn to the point my voice become hoarse. I have LPR.
But I think my stomach just can't handle foods that are high in iron and minerals, even green veg water gives me heartburn.
 
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Zpol

Zpol

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What I make of this study is that ...

A. The participants were people who had slow motility, not the more typical constipation type where fiber increases regularity. These people likely have severe inflammation and possibly autoimmune diseases and/or diseases affecting the motilin hormone, or the nerves and smooth muscle surrounding the digestive tract, and of course they likely have more NO pathways innervating their colons. So basically people who very sick.

B. The distinction between low and no fiber is important. Fiber hides in many foods that some people may not realize.

C. Typically people who do no-fiber might not be getting enough carbs. I fortunately (lol) get severe heartburn if I don't eat enough carbs so I'll know if i dip too low within and hour after a meal.

On a side note, it may be wishful thinking for me so I guess it's best to just try it. Everyone one has different guts so even though this may not work for everyone I do hope I am one that it works for.

One thing also that I think is important is electrolytes balance. I'm going get some quality coconut water and check toxinless to see if I can find some clean vit. C... Hope I can find some somewhere, of the quality Ray peat used to cure his poison ivy.

Also I'll be doing nettle root, niacinamide and benfothiamine, and some other b vitamins, supps.
 
D

danishispsychic

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Oh the fiber paradox. I think that it depend on how you do with gluten/ grain and that most fiber is seed and plant related. ( like the powder stuff ) for me, after several things damaging my gut, I try to stick to the fiber in fruit and since I really cant tolerate much muscle meat, sushi gave me parasites, Im allergic to shrimp, eggs, and hate root veggies sometimes I will eat a potato..... I try to have like soaked super cooked oats, will add in slippery elm sometimes, and try to just see how it goes in terms of what fiber I end up getting. If you are like me and basically live on Coffee/Milk/Sugar / OJ / Lemonade/ Green Tea Mochi and sometimes buffalo wings or pizza because I gave up on food and fiber after most of it just ripped up my gut lining that was already damaged.... I think that fiber should be something that you intuitively eat - I think Citrucel and Psyllium super messed me up when I was trying to get all fiber-y and healthy. Oh brother.
 

Amazoniac

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I think the best way to optimize digestion and elimination is to eat close to zero fiber. My digestion has been perfect since cutting out all fiber (also the raw carrot). I can even eat lots of wheat and maintain good digestion, but once I eat too much fiber, I will get constipated. I'll quote my favorite study ever again:

World J Gastroenterol. 2012 Sep 7; 18(33): 4593–4596.
Published online 2012 Sep 7. doi: 10.3748/wjg.v18.i33.4593
Stopping or reducing dietary fiber intake reduces constipation and its associated symptoms
Kok-Sun Ho, Charmaine You Mei Tan, Muhd Ashik Mohd Daud, and Francis Seow-Choen

AIM: To investigate the effect of reducing dietary fiber on patients with idiopathic constipation.

METHODS: Sixty-three cases of idiopathic constipation presenting between May 2008 and May 2010 were enrolled into the study after colonoscopy excluded an organic cause of the constipation. Patients with previous colon surgery or a medical cause of their constipation were excluded. All patients were given an explanation on the role of fiber in the gastrointestinal tract. They were then asked to go on a no fiber diet for 2 wk. Thereafter, they were asked to reduce the amount of dietary fiber intake to a level that they found acceptable. Dietary fiber intake, symptoms of constipation, difficulty in evacuation of stools, anal bleeding, abdominal bloating or abdominal pain were recorded at 1 and 6 mo.

RESULTS: The median age of the patients (16 male, 47 female) was 47 years (range, 20-80 years). At 6 mo, 41 patients remained on a no fiber diet, 16 on a reduced fiber diet, and 6 resumed their high fiber diet for religious or personal reasons. Patients who stopped or reduced dietary fiber had significant improvement in their symptoms while those who continued on a high fiber diet had no change. Of those who stopped fiber completely, the bowel frequency increased from one motion in 3.75 d (± 1.59 d) to one motion in 1.0 d (± 0.0 d) (P < 0.001); those with reduced fiber intake had increased bowel frequency from a mean of one motion per 4.19 d (± 2.09 d) to one motion per 1.9 d (± 1.21 d) on a reduced fiber diet (P < 0.001); those who remained on a high fiber diet continued to have a mean of one motion per 6.83 d (± 1.03 d) before and after consultation. For no fiber, reduced fiber and high fiber groups, respectively, symptoms of bloating were present in 0%, 31.3% and 100% (P < 0.001) and straining to pass stools occurred in 0%, 43.8% and 100% (P < 0.001).

CONCLUSION: Idiopathic constipation and its associated symptoms can be effectively reduced by stopping or even lowering the intake of dietary fiber.

"This study has confirmed that the previous strongly-held belief that the application of dietary fiber to help con stipation is but a myth. Our study shows a very strong correlation between improving constipation and its associated symptoms after stopping dietary fiber intake."

"Dietary fiber, therefore, cannot act as solid boluses for the initiation of peristalsis. In fact, dietary fiber had been shown to retard peristalsis and hold up gaseous expulsion in human experiments [22] .Dietary fiber is also associated with increased bloated ness and abdominal discomfort [22] . Insoluble fiber was re ported to worsen the clinical outcome of abdominal pain and constipation [18-20]"
Stopping or reducing dietary fiber intake reduces constipation and its associated symptoms

While eliminating fibers offers relief, over time it can make the situation worse. It's reliance on adequate mucus production (not only for protection but also to compensate for the lack of undigested carbs), food transiting fast and full evacuation. It's not uncommon for all them to be sub of the optimals in a lot of people.

It might not be a coincidence that on their reference above reduced fiber intake was not associated with constipation but was with obesity. It mimics some aspects of the pathogenic high-fat lab diets because there will be mostly proteids and fats (including bile compounds) without anything else to keep bacteria entertained.

Even though leaves are important, the carbs can be derived from whatever the person agrees the most. For example, they mentioned lactulose as being effective for desired purpose.

It's better to focus on optimizing fat-soluble vitamins and have some daily activity and let these problems be corrected without restrictions.
 

Kartoffel

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Stopping or reducing dietary fiber intake reduces constipation and its associated symptoms

While eliminating fibers offers relief, over time it can make the situation worse. It's reliance on adequate mucus production (not only for protection but also to compensate for the lack of undigested carbs), food transiting fast and full evacuation. It's not uncommon for all them to be sub of the optimals in a lot of people.

It might not be a coincidence that on their reference above reduced fiber intake was not associated with constipation but was with obesity. It mimics some aspects of the pathogenic high-fat lab diets because there will be mostly proteids and fats (including bile compounds) without anything else to keep bacteria entertained.

Even though leaves are important, the carbs can be derived from whatever the person agrees the most. For example, they mentioned lactulose as being effective for desired purpose.

It's better to focus on optimizing fat-soluble vitamins and have some daily activity and let these problems be corrected without restrictions.

I have seen the Sao Paulo study before. I stopped reading association studies long ago, especially if they are based on notoriously unreliable questionnaires. Controlled experiments are the only thing I am interested in.

"Intake of beans more than four times per week is associated with the appropriate level of fiber intake" - Yeah, make sure poor children eat their beans!
 

Amazoniac

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I have seen the Sao Paulo study before. I stopped reading association studies long ago, especially if they are based on notoriously unreliable questionnaires. Controlled experiments are the only thing I am interested in.

"Intake of beans more than four times per week is associated with the appropriate level of fiber intake" - Yeah, make sure poor children eat their beans!
From the original study:
"Each patient was to act as their own control."
"Patients were followed up at 1 mo and 6 mo intervals and final results were analyzed at 6 mo."

Part of the kids studied in private schools, they weren't poor.
 

Kartoffel

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From the original study:
"Each patient was to act as their own control."
"Patients were followed up at 1 mo and 6 mo intervals and final results were analyzed at 6 mo."

Yes, that's obviously a limitation of that study but it's still an experiment with one independent variable as opposed to a multivariate regression analysis. To be honest, I don't remember anything about socioeconomic information regarding these kids. It sure sounds like the conclusion of any of the other studies used to make poor people eat lots of healthy beans.
 

YourUniverse

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I have been having oat bran for dinner, 0.5cup dry, cooked in 1.5cup water. The thought was to increase fiber, but also some trace minerals like manganese and magnesium. My daily fiber intake was ~16g, under half the recommended daily amount, and with oat bran it increased to about 22g. Nothing else in my diet changed.

I became more constipated with the additional fiber. When I went a day without the bran, the constipation relieved. This is so weird, coming from the understanding that fiber = transit time factor #1.

I know vitamin C is extremely important for transit time, and I get ~800% of the RDA, daily. If increasing fiber worsens constipation, and vitamin C levels are solid, I'm a bit confused on what to do next.
 

Amazoniac

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I have been having oat bran for dinner, 0.5cup dry, cooked in 1.5cup water. The thought was to increase fiber, but also some trace minerals like manganese and magnesium. My daily fiber intake was ~16g, under half the recommended daily amount, and with oat bran it increased to about 22g. Nothing else in my diet changed.

I became more constipated with the additional fiber. When I went a day without the bran, the constipation relieved. This is so weird, coming from the understanding that fiber = transit time factor #1.

I know vitamin C is extremely important for transit time, and I get ~800% of the RDA, daily. If increasing fiber worsens constipation, and vitamin C levels are solid, I'm a bit confused on what to do next.
The fibers that speed up the most are fermentable. The bran is meant to protect the interior, the energy isn't as available.
images

What’s in a Grain?. - ppt download

There's more information about this on the 'Turk's consulting a physician' thread. If you don't mind details ,open anesthesiology book , all there
 
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