Are Fibrous Green Vegetables And Beans So Bad?

[welshwing]

Hello, I'm seeking the truth, not to argue. I just want tips on modifying my diet which I thought was perfect. Ray Peat's is so different that I can't ignore his research. To put things simply, he recommends a lot of sugar and not much fiber, my diet is high fiber low sugar. The staples of my diet are green vegetables, legumes and fortified cereal or oats with lean meat on occasion. Ray Peat's is pretty much the opposite cutting out green veggies, grains and beans - all fiber.

I can go without grains but to say that veggies and beans are bad is too extreme for me to take seriously, and that I should eat ice cream and cola instead is weird but It's not unbelievable. This is why I can't dismiss Ray Peat, I need to know if I can still at least eat veggies and legumes (maybe even grains). Maybe Peat says they're "bad" but are they so bad I can't eat them or just "okay" to eat?

My problems with his diet:

First problem, I'm allergic to most shellfish. If I eat them my throat swells up and I go to the hospital. beans-veggies-grains don't make me feel worse after eating them. I think Peat said not to eat leafy greens because they have some poison in them that's bad for the hormones and metabolism. He also says that cooking them well makes them okay. The problem with that is he's saying the staple to my diet is bad because it has 1 poison in it that's bad for people with hyperthyroidism, but some of his staples are bad for me and I'm an athletic young male. Many people can't eat dairy, others who are diabetic can't even eat sugar - in my diet I restrict dairy and sugar because I think they do nothing but bad.

Second problem, I'm concerned with aging well and health but Ray Peat seems to be very viscerally fat and using a lot of supplements, like pregnenolone which made him look much younger than he really is, so who's to say It's his diet that makes Peat look so young and not the pregnenolone? If you need supplements then is it really a good diet?

Third, eating so much sugar must be bad for your oral health.

4th, Omega-6 and polyunsaturated fat is unavoidable, even in green vegetables and carrots. Not sure you can detoxify from it, but you can stop eating oils and junk food that everyone agrees is bad.

And though not so important, a lot of the foods on the food chart like carrots, ice cream, cola... had to be made by humans, they weren't available to primitive humans.

Ray Peat's advice seems sound, he's got a lot of credentials and isn't selling anything, he's trustworthy. I just don't want to eat Ray Peat diet yet because of the reasons I stated, but I'll definitely cut down on PUFA's, Omega 6 and oils completely.

 

[welshwing]

I think being leanish, not too viscerally fat is the best thing regardless of diet. There's fat between the organs which bastardize hormones, Peat in this photo has a gut and androgynous breasts. He seems skinny but men tend to store fat in their torso, he's fat.

 

[Brian]

In my experience there is nothing significantly harmful from reasonable amounts of well cooked cooked vegetables and beans. Intuitively they don't make a big part of my food intake, but I don't avoid them at all.

The most important tip I've applied from Peat is some kind of daily technique to reduce endotoxin. The carrot/vinegar/mct oil salad works very well for me even if I'm eating plenty of fibrous foods. From what I can tell it negates most of the negative effects that fermentable fibres might otherwise cause.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Ray Peat seems to me pretty old enough...

 

[narouz]

How old is Peat supposed to be in that photo?
I forget.
his mid-late '70's...?

He's looking pretty good, imo.
It is mostly about mental/imaginative longevity to me.
A photo won't show that.

Have you hung out with a lot of 76 year-olds or whatever he is?
He's looking good!

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Welshwing,

Green vegetables such as spinach and chard are loaded with oxalates, eating those daily while restricting dairy because you think "it does nothing but bad" is a recipe for kidney stones. How will you get enough calcium?

http://www.townsendletter.com/Jan2015/green0115.html

 

[welshwing]

Welshwing,

Green vegetables such as spinach and chard are loaded with oxalates, eating those daily while restricting dairy because you think "it does nothing but bad" is a recipe for kidney stones. How will you get enough calcium?

http://www.townsendletter.com/Jan2015/green0115.html

For calcium I figured yogurt would be okay. It also has selenium which Peat says is necessary for a healthy thyroid. I don't completely restrict dairy, I eat cheese occasionally too. Veggies have iodine, that combo should promote thyroid health.

I will read that article now, but if oxalates only cause kidney stones and nothing worse, then maybe yogurt balances it out and I'm okay to eat green veggies.

 

[Brian]

I just wouldn't recommend going crazy on the greens. As a small side dish they are probably inert.

I'm pretty sure I can trace the beginning of a huge slow down in my metabolism to a time when I was eating large amounts of broccoli or spinach every day. Often raw. Big mistake. There is no biologic use for all that from what I can tell.

 

[welshwing]

How old is Peat supposed to be in that photo?
I forget.
his mid-late '70's...?

He's looking pretty good, imo.
It is mostly about mental/imaginative longevity to me.
A photo won't show that.

Have you hung out with a lot of 76 year-olds or whatever he is?
He's looking good!

I can't lie, he looks pretty good and seems healthy but his visceral fat worries me, I expected him to have a flat stomach. Being fat and having breasts usually means high estrogen and DHT, an endomorphic somatype.

 

[welshwing]

I just wouldn't recommend going crazy on the greens. As a small side dish they are probably inert.

I'm pretty sure I can trace the beginning of a huge slow down in my metabolism to a time when I was eating large amounts of broccoli or spinach every day. Often raw. Big mistake. There is no biologic use for all that from what I can tell.

This is my main concern. I can't stop eating veggies without changing my diet, I can cook them to reduce the poison that slows metabolism and I hope that's okay but I eat them in large quantities.

 

[charlie]

fat.

 

[Brian]

This is my main concern. I can't stop eating veggies without changing my diet, I can cook them to reduce the poison that slows metabolism and I hope that's okay but I eat them in large quantities.

Why do you feel you need to them in such high quantities? The carotenes are really the only semi-useful thing in them. And you can get all you could possibly use in a small serving. Even then make sure you are taking in plenty of B12, to help your liver convert them into active Retinol. An excess of carotenes are another thing that can slow metabolism and cooking won't change that.

But if you really want to consume greens in some way, even Peat said that drinking the broth of boiled kale leaves (not the leaves themselves) can be a good source of minerals.

 

[welshwing]

The reasons I think veggies in high quantities are important is because it
A) Prevents me from getting fat
B) Has lots of fiber
C) Nutrient dense

That combo seems healthy to me. High fiber raises SHBG which Peat never talked about. It binds free androgens like testosterone and estrogen, so as a male even though my serum testosterone is high, I have low free androgens. Similar to vegan diet, but I eat lean meat and yogurt to make it healthier.


I hope I can eat veggies and beans without them being bad. With regular exercise, carrot/vinegar/mct oil salad and yogurt I think I eliminate the dangers of vegetables. So far I haven't felt any damage from eating like this for over 6 months.

 

[welshwing]

Before I didn't have a diet, I felt a lot more energetic after adopting a high vegetable diet, became leaner and no longer produce acne meaning my hormones are in check. I'm not 20 yet, before dieting I had visceral fat and mild acne despite exercising daily.

 

[Brian]

Before I didn't have a diet, I felt a lot more energetic after adopting a high vegetable diet, became leaner and no longer produce acne meaning my hormones are in check. I'm not 20 yet, before dieting I had visceral fat and mild acne despite exercising daily.

How much is a "high vegetable diet" on average for you?

You're very young, so consider that feeling "energetic" can simply be your body increasing stress hormones very effectively which will give you a euphoric feeling maybe even for a year or more despite a very stressful diet. But it won't last forever.

I did all sorts of crazy diets and little sleep for years in my teens and early 20's and I still felt fantastic. Whenever I have eaten a high bean and vegetable diet, it's quite clear that a large portion of it isn't even being digested. So despite feeling full I was probably starving. I could do that at 20. Absolutely not anymore without feeling very cold and overall unwell.

There's quite a few well known studies that clearly show very high fiber diets are horrible for testosterone. Standard bodybuilding diets are based on low fiber starches. Don't expect a carrot salad to compensate for a fiber overload.

 

[welshwing]

Brian, are they really that bad? Veggies are very nutritious according to "nutrition data" site. I can't believe they're so bad, but do old people not eat veggies and turn out okay? I eat at least 30 grams of fiber per day from mostly vegetables, beans and fortified cereal. That's about the recommended DV of fiber that most Americans don't get in their diet.

Seeing the common problems people post about here like poor oral health and balding, these are both avoided from eating a low fructose diet with high fiber. Buddhist monks eat veggies all their lives and truly starve themselves, restrict meat and dairy completely, yet still survive happily.

 

[Brian]

No, a small amount per day is not a problem at all for most people especially when very well cooked. How much do you think you eat per day?

 

[Waremu]

I think being leanish, not too viscerally fat is the best thing regardless of diet. There's fat between the organs which bastardize hormones, Peat in this photo has a gut and androgynous breasts. He seems skinny but men tend to store fat in their torso, he's fat.

I honestly don't know if you were being serious or not. I tend to believe you were not because then that would be just an outright silly judgment....but then again, some people have posted some silly things here too, so it's hard to tell for me. But if you were being serious, I will say that I have been deeply into fitness professionally for quite some time now and I usually can tell right off the bat if someone is fat or not just by looking at them, and even guess their BF % and be almost on point. I will say that his figure is very good, especially for his age. Those "androgynous breasts" you refer to are not "man boobs", or anything to do with body fat. They are simply his "pec" chest muscles poking through the shirt. In fact, just by looking at this pic I can tell that his chest is pretty lean. He has a very lean build. And if you look closely at the way he is standing, his spine is curved, meaning he is not standing straight and that will tend to push your belly out a little. He is slouching in the picture. I see people with six packs and if they do not stand straight and kind of slouch over their stomach will tend to stick out a bit and with some shirts that will make a imprint if they are somewhat tight, like the one peat is wearing in that picture.

 

[welshwing]

No, a small amount per day is not a problem at all for most people especially when very well cooked. How much do you think you eat per day?

Buddhist monks eat veggies raw.

This is weird because I've never heard of them being bad anywhere but in the Ray Peat community. I don't always measure how much I eat but a lot, today I had an entire stock of broccoli, 350 grams of spinach, a big bowl of black beans, baby carrots and squash. I ate a yam too based on Ray Peats suggestions. Oh, and 2 boiled eggs, only because I remembered Peat and got scared I hadn't eaten enough of his recommended foods.

Even if you say veggies are bad I can't easily be persuaded to stop eating them... It's only Ray Peat saying they're bad, the rest of the world is against Peat.

 

[welshwing]

I think being leanish, not too viscerally fat is the best thing regardless of diet. There's fat between the organs which bastardize hormones, Peat in this photo has a gut and androgynous breasts. He seems skinny but men tend to store fat in their torso, he's fat.

I honestly don't know if you were being serious or not. I tend to believe you were not because then that would be just an outright silly judgment....but then again, some people have posted some silly things here too, so it's hard to tell for me. But if you were being serious, I will say that I have been deeply into fitness professionally for quite some time now and I usually can tell right off the bat if someone is fat or not just by looking at them, and even guess their BF % and be almost on point. I will say that his figure is very good, especially for his age. Those "androgynous breasts" you refer to are not "man boobs", or anything to do with body fat. They are simply his "pec" chest muscles poking through the shirt. In fact, just by looking at this pic I can tell that his chest is pretty lean. He has a very lean build. And if you look closely at the way he is standing, his spine is curved, meaning he is not standing straight and that will tend to push your belly out a little. He is slouching in the picture. I see people with six packs and if they do not stand straight and kind of slouch over their stomach will tend to stick out a bit and with some shirts that will make a imprint if they are somewhat tight, like the one peat is wearing in that picture.

If that's true then Peat is incredibly fit! I never thought he aged poorly. when I get serious about following his diet I'll read his entire site someday, I only want the truth.