Are Fibrous Green Vegetables And Beans So Bad?

[tara]

brocolli. :)

broccoli.

My bad.
I wondered about that, and searched several spelling variants, and even thought I'd looked it up in a dictionary to check, and still got it wrong.

1 large stalk broccoli/280g: 0.5g PUFA

 

[narouz]

yea they are super nutritious and are dense enough to always be satisfying, but the problem is they have the skins that have tannins, saponins, and other irritants, and indigestible sugars, and have a lot of resistant starch. Humans are not supposed to be ruminaters, and things that produce gas are the equivalent and go hand in hand with endotoxin...it kind of ruins mood and hormones. Lil bit of beans at night might not be the worse thing but I don't know why you would unless you needed to. They are pretty solid nutritionally and have low methionine protein...I cant hate on them because truth is we live in a world that isn't quite ready for how many people there is for everyone to eat optimally yet, and I see beans as better than grains nutrition wise, they wont give diabetes and are nearly neutral in terms of acid balance and all that. I think mung dal in India are the only beans sold and eaten commonly that are shelled like a refined grain is, and potentially if people got smart and started refining other beans they would be much more tolerable and non mutagenic and less gassy, while still very nutritious.

So yea I cant recommend them, but...for a lot of people they are for sure better than freezing, starving, or eating incomplete food that leads to disease. Beans might not be fun, and be gassy, and even irritating or constipating in too high an amount, but at least they'll keep people alive, somewhat warm, and relatively healthy (not optimally).

I don't eat em, if you're smart, even on a budget you can eat complete without beans and do better but most people aren't as informed, savy, don't know how to...don't really know much or have nutrition tables and all that. It is what it is

I do agree with you, pboy.
Beans/legumes are not a good food in Peat World.

And I don't think they are appetizing to you personally...?

But the weird thing is
I would love nothing more than believing
beans were the most nutritious things around
and the more you eat the better.
(Well...gotta throw in some beef sometimes or chicken, and cheese too, but....)

Why would I want that!?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Green, leafy vegetables are really healthy...so long as a cow or a goat detoxifies them first!

I strongly disagree with the notion that PUFAs in whole foods are any better than PUFAs in refined oil. The gut breaks everything down to molecules and the small intestine has a specialized mechanism to transport fat into the body. It does it one PUFA molecule at a time no matter how you eat them.

And the negative health consequences of PUFAs are enormous. Just the chain reaction of oxidative damage from free radicals is probably the main factor in arterial plaques; they are full of oxidized low density lipoproteins, LDLs. The lipo part of a lipoprotein is a fatty acid. Since saturated fatty acids are not oxidized, it is chemically impossible for dietary saturated fats to cause coronary artery disease.

The OP certainly can read more, IMO.

The process in which oil is made is crazy. It takes so much to produce. Eating a handful of green olives, which are a fruit, ripe, salted, with no noxious additives, is different than eating a ton of olive oil. The second ingredient in one of the best selling tomato sauces right now, Raos Homemade (and all health food stores sauces) is olive oil:

"Ingredients:
Imported Italian Tomatoes, Imported Olive Oil, Fresh Onions, Salt, Fresh Garlic, Fresh Basil, Black Pepper, Oregano."

These things are loaded with olive oil. This is why those sauces sell so much, because you can't beat that olive oil taste. It's addicting. There is also a difference in the fat in whole form simply by way of how the fat is extracted from the source. This is especially true for oils like canola. Hexanes and solvents used to make some of these oils. Free unbound oils pass right through the small intestine and are directly stored on adipose tissue. (Peat said that). Is the very small amount of fat (oil) inside a few olives, also passed right though the small intestine and stored on adipose tissue? Maybe. The gut does not breakdown everything. Seeds pass right through (not the wall, the anus) without ever being broken down, as well as certain fibers like the skin of tomatoes, which is why people sell "peeled" canned tomatoes, and similar type fibers. The raw carrot, Peat style, is not broken down, which is exactly why he recommends it. It's the opposite, instead of being broken down, it takes up.

The main free oil foods are mayonaise, all salad dressings (the first ingredient in salad dressing and mayo is pure oil), all snack foods and potato chips, restaurant food, fried food, pizza dough is made with oil, soups from restaurants are made with lots of oil (and homemade soups too, by people who think oil is good for them), supplements like fish oil, evening primrose oil, flax oil etc. -

It's those foods that are the main problem. People aren't getting heart disease because everyone eats olives and avocados. Here is my list of plant fats: viewtopic.php?t=5723

The only fat that people who are getting heart disease eat from that list is oil, free oil used in cooking and poured on food, or already in a prepared food like ranch dressing or sauces.

But even if a handful of olives does act the same as the free oils, as you say, then it would fit well with this quote:

"A small amount of these oils won't kill you. It is the proportion of them in your diet that matters. A little extra vitamin E (such as 100 units per day) will take care of an occasional American restaurant meal. Based on animal studies, it would take a teaspoonful per day of corn or soy oil added to a fat-free diet to significantly increase our risk of cancer. Unfortunately, it is impossible to devise a fat-free diet outside of a laboratory. Vegetables, grains, nuts, fish and meats all naturally contain large amounts of these oils, and the extra oil used in cooking becomes a more serious problem." - Ray Peat

I'm not getting a teaspoonful per day of olive oil from a handful of olives because 1. I don't eat them everyday, and 2. the few that I eat yield a extremely tiny amount of oil, even if it is freed into my bloodstream from my super strong small intestine that has the same capabilities as an extra virgin cold press machine.

A human can juice an orange with their hand. Try doing the same with any original source from which oil came and see what happens.

Either way, it's best to keep fat intake low, regardless if its free oil or a whole food. Fatty foods should not be a main calorie source. So while SAFA may not clog arteries like free PUFA does, it absolutely causes fat gain, which is why Peat Said:

"I have heard from several people that they think I recommend drinking whole milk, which I don't, because the amount of fat in whole milk is very likely to be fattening when a person is using it to get the needed protein and calcium. When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories" - Ray Peat

In one of the Herb Doctor interviews, Sarah asked Peat what his number one health recommendation is and he said "Don't eat oils."

 

[mt_dreams]

Oxalate intake and kidney function. The example in the link seems like an excessive case, but it's another example that oxalates can become a problem.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/ ... FT20150401

 

[Nicholas]

what is with all this nonsense about discussing what you can and can't eat?? eat vegetables if you wish - don't eat shellfish, eat however makes you feel best AND actually healthy. If your pulse and temp are optimal and steady throughout the day then you are doing something right. But your body is not static, so you have to constantly evolve with it. Nobody is evolving with their bodies needs, they are mindlessly following protocol diets. Then they get confused when they start feeling badly. Feeling badly is a good thing because it wakes you up to there being something that needs fixing. If your body is using oxidative metabolism to function then there is nothing to change for the moment. But is it? I do eat veggies: onion, zucchini, garlic, parsnips, scallions, herbs, potatoes, carrots, turnips, raw spinach, arugula, and occasionally fennel. The above ground vegetables i eat sparingly. It is anti-Peat to say that he is against vegetables - he simply puts out the information and enlightens us overall that every food in nature is both negative and positive but nothing is evil.

Trust not in scientific studies or what people say in forums. Scientific studies are not the realm of the practitioner, which is what you have to be for your own body. Look into the Clara Davis study if you haven't already to get an idea of how we don't need scientific studies or even Ray Peat to be self-practitioners. The biggest challenge is not in not knowing enough about nutrition, etc. but in not knowing how to read your own body and interpret it and let it be the dictator.

 

[Nicholas]

Westside - dairy fat "absolutely" causing fat gain is not the same as what Peat says. I have been losing body fat while consuming whole milk, full fat cottage cheese, full fat cheeses, lots of butter, occasional ice cream, and 2% yogurt. This has been my experience, but of course does not mean that my experience is truth because everyone has their own set of variables.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Westside - dairy fat "absolutely" causing fat gain is not the same as what Peat says. I have been losing body fat while consuming whole milk, full fat cottage cheese, full fat cheeses, lots of butter, occasional ice cream, and 2% yogurt. This has been my experience, but of course does not mean that my experience is truth because everyone has their own set of variables.

Skype with me so I can see your fat loss.

 

[EnoreeG]

what is with all this nonsense about discussing what you can and can't eat?? eat vegetables if you wish - don't eat shellfish, eat however makes you feel best AND actually healthy. If your pulse and temp are optimal and steady throughout the day then you are doing something right. But your body is not static, so you have to constantly evolve with it. Nobody is evolving with their bodies needs, they are mindlessly following protocol diets. Then they get confused when they start feeling badly. Feeling badly is a good thing because it wakes you up to there being something that needs fixing. If your body is using oxidative metabolism to function then there is nothing to change for the moment. But is it? I do eat veggies: onion, zucchini, garlic, parsnips, scallions, herbs, potatoes, carrots, turnips, raw spinach, arugula, and occasionally fennel. The above ground vegetables i eat sparingly. It is anti-Peat to say that he is against vegetables - he simply puts out the information and enlightens us overall that every food in nature is both negative and positive but nothing is evil.

Trust not in scientific studies or what people say in forums. Scientific studies are not the realm of the practitioner, which is what you have to be for your own body. Look into the Clara Davis study if you haven't already to get an idea of how we don't need scientific studies or even Ray Peat to be self-practitioners. The biggest challenge is not in not knowing enough about nutrition, etc. but in not knowing how to read your own body and interpret it and let it be the dictator.

I like your advice. It's great for people who have been studying and testing diets and have gotten over some addictions and bad habits. I'd add that there are people who are just starting out on the road to better nutrition (Can't we all remember being there?) and who may have really poor eating habits. I think these people may profit and make some great strides toward health by following some guru's good advice based on some specifics. Yes, it's best if that particular guru shares the idea that the followers must eventually get sensitive to their own body's results and then learn to make changes in proportions of foods based on their resulting health.

Keep up the good work.

 

[jyb]

Westside - dairy fat "absolutely" causing fat gain is not the same as what Peat says. I have been losing body fat while consuming whole milk, full fat cottage cheese, full fat cheeses, lots of butter, occasional ice cream, and 2% yogurt. This has been my experience, but of course does not mean that my experience is truth because everyone has their own set of variables.

Well it works out okay on entire populations. There are many example of places in Europe where people eat *a lot* of the foods you mentioned. Whole dairy products and varied animal cuts can be pretty traditional. They are slim and no, they don't go to the gym or do take special measures to shed calories.

 

[Nicholas]

Westside - dairy fat "absolutely" causing fat gain is not the same as what Peat says. I have been losing body fat while consuming whole milk, full fat cottage cheese, full fat cheeses, lots of butter, occasional ice cream, and 2% yogurt. This has been my experience, but of course does not mean that my experience is truth because everyone has their own set of variables.

Skype with me so I can see your fat loss.

no, thanks.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Studies showing toxicity of compounds in beans is eliminated from cooking:

"The haemagglutinin (lectin), which occurs naturally in the red kidney bean, is inactivated by thorough cooking of well soaked beans. In many of the outbreaks reported the implicated beans were consumed raw or following an inadequate heat process."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7407532

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2271815/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11474896

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17497874

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3951542/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25328202

Many talk about raw or undercooked beans/vegetables, but I don't know anyone who eats beans/vegetables raw/undercooked. It's a weird thing to say. I cook beans in a crock pot for a long time, which is easy because you just throw some stuff together in a crock pot, turn it on and let it cook for hours while you're working or whatever, and you come back home to a safe calorie source that is low fat and satiating. I still prefer potatoes or rice as the main satiating part of a stew but I do throw some beans in there. Also, beans are high in protein and I'm experimenting with lower protein intake to take stress off my kidneys.

 

[gretchen]

In one of the Herb Doctor interviews, Sarah asked Peat what his number one health recommendation is and he said "Don't eat oils."

This is great advice. I ate a lot of olive oil in the 2000s, about a tablespoon a day. I didn't gain weight, but after about ten years started noticing blood sugar issues and even once had heart pain. I wouldn't touch a bottle of it if you paid me.

 

[ilovethesea]

This is great advice. I ate a lot of olive oil in the 2000s, about a tablespoon a day. I didn't gain weight, but after about ten years started noticing blood sugar issues and even once had heart pain. I wouldn't touch a bottle of it if you paid me.

Probably it wasn't even real olive oil.

"Of the five top-selling imported “extra virgin” olive oil brands in the United States, 73 percent of the samples
failed the IOC sensory standards for extra virgin olive oils analyzed by two IOC-accredited sensory panels. The
failure rate ranged from a high of 94 percent to a low of 56 percent depending on the brand and the panel.
None of the Australian and California samples failed both sensory panels, while 11 percent of the top-selling
premium Italian brand samples failed the two panels. Sensory defects are indicators that these samples are
oxidized, of poor quality, and/or adulterated with cheaper refined oils."

http://olivecenter.ucdavis.edu/research ... educed.pdf

 

[pboy]

most fiber sucks ****, literally

 

[Tom]

Westside - dairy fat "absolutely" causing fat gain is not the same as what Peat says. I have been losing body fat while consuming whole milk, full fat cottage cheese, full fat cheeses, lots of butter, occasional ice cream, and 2% yogurt. This has been my experience, but of course does not mean that my experience is truth because everyone has their own set of variables.

Well it works out okay on entire populations. There are many example of places in Europe where people eat *a lot* of the foods you mentioned. Whole dairy products and varied animal cuts can be pretty traditional. They are slim and no, they don't go to the gym or do take special measures to shed calories.

Data from a 100 years ago suggested that people had all sorts of different macronutrient balances, but overweight was relatively rare. I think one could make the case for high starch being very fattening if consumed in excess, in the sense that it will lead to high blood sugar followed by fat storage. The Japanese Sumo wrestlers are fed according to one estimate 5000 calories but only around 10% of energy as fats. But sure dairy fat can also be fattening in excess, but it may be related to lack of other nutrients needed to burn the fat. It seems like whole milk isn´t really fattening in itself because it provides those nutrients, while cheese could be another story. Full fat milk in conjunction with starch may be fattening, while low fat milk in conjunction with starch may not.

See:

 

[Nicholas]

Westside - dairy fat "absolutely" causing fat gain is not the same as what Peat says. I have been losing body fat while consuming whole milk, full fat cottage cheese, full fat cheeses, lots of butter, occasional ice cream, and 2% yogurt. This has been my experience, but of course does not mean that my experience is truth because everyone has their own set of variables.

Well it works out okay on entire populations. There are many example of places in Europe where people eat *a lot* of the foods you mentioned. Whole dairy products and varied animal cuts can be pretty traditional. They are slim and no, they don't go to the gym or do take special measures to shed calories.

Data from a 100 years ago suggested that people had all sorts of different macronutrient balances, but overweight was relatively rare. I think one could make the case for high starch being very fattening if consumed in excess, in the sense that it will lead to high blood sugar followed by fat storage. The Japanese Sumo wrestlers are fed according to one estimate 5000 calories but only around 10% of energy as fats. But sure dairy fat can also be fattening in excess, but it may be related to lack of other nutrients needed to burn the fat. It seems like whole milk isn´t really fattening in itself because it provides those nutrients, while cheese could be another story. Full fat milk in conjunction with starch may be fattening, while low fat milk in conjunction with starch may not.

See:

yes, it always comes back to balance, right? There are only six broad macronutrient ratios that can exist, but many shades in between. The chart you posted is very interesting and the only macro ratio that seems to be the trend is about 50C/15P/35F. Poor health can manifest in different ways for different people. Obesity is obviously not the only expression of dysfunction. "High" anything is always person specific. What may be high starch for someone may be low starch for me. If food frequency is off, then you can't accurately assess ratios or calories. If calories are off you can't accurately assess frequency or ratios. And if ratios are off you can't accurately assess frequency or calories. If you are nutrient deficient, you can't accurately assess any of the above, either. The beauty of all of this is that there is no rule that exists outside of the individual's body and there is nothing that is not in the realm of needing balancing. Nutritionists hate that, but practitioners and researchers would find it commonplace and great for research into what it means to perceive.

 

[Amazoniac]

@Westside PUFAs - What's your current opinion on beans?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

@Westside PUFAs - What's your current opinion on beans?

I like em.

 

[Amazoniac]

I like em.

Deep!

 

[Amazoniac]

How does adding baking soda to soaking beans/lentils reduce the gas they make you have?
@Westside PUFAs