RP Email Advice Comment: Safe Fiber

Discussion in 'Email Advice' started by raypeatclips, Sep 14, 2016.

  1. raypeatclips

    raypeatclips Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    2,556
    He mentions fiber, but mentions mushrooms, bamboo and carrots as antiseptic foods. Is his stance of fiber more open than before, or is he just meaning the 3 foods he mentioned?
     
  2. milk_lover

    milk_lover Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,750
    I asked him a following question right after I got that response from him: "I noticed you mentioned fiber separately from the antiseptic foods. From your writing, I thought they’re the same. What are some examples of good fiber? Green salad?"

    He hasn't replied. I think fiber in general should help that's what I gathered from his response.
     
  3. OP
    raypeatclips

    raypeatclips Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    2,556
    Yeah that does seem the obvious question. Off the top of my head I can remember him not being very positive about fiber in general and only mentioning the same 3 that everyone knows, bamboo, carrot and mushroom.

    Please let us know if he replies.
     
  4. milk_lover

    milk_lover Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,750
    Of course I will. He seems not so keen on answering follow-up questions because they are usually boring :)
     
  5. schultz

    schultz Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,917
    In podcasts he has mentioned cellulose as being pretty safe.
     
  6. milk_lover

    milk_lover Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,750
    Does he recommend to take cellulose for fiber? Maybe he thinks the amount found in some supplements is safe.
     
  7. Mittir

    Mittir Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,034
    He answered question on cellulose and Hydroxypropyl methylcellulose (hypromellose).
    You will need to do word search for his answer on cellulose. . I think all the email exchange
    from Peatarian exchange and Email Advice should be in one page so we can do
    word search on the page and find the answer quickly.


    Peatarian.com Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki
     
  8. schultz

    schultz Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,917
    I don't think I've heard him mention it as a supplement. The podcast I mentioned was in regards to cellulose obtained from foods I believe.
     
  9. tara

    tara Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    10,047
    Gender:
    Female
    Natural grown cellulose in plants may sometimes be useful for sweeping purposes, but I think he's expressed concern about crystaline cellulose in supplements from the PoV of adsorption.
     
  10. “The daily use of a few spoonfuls of bran in the breakfast cereal, or of a carrot as a snack (or grated, as a salad), can prevent practically all constipation. A high fiber diet also lowers the risk of bowel cancer, and is being used increasingly for preventing and treating conditions such as colitis and diverticulitis. It turns out that the popular old ” bland diet” without fiber was just about the worst possible thing for colitis."

    This from Functionalps
     
  11. encerent

    encerent Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Messages:
    575
    He's definitely pro-fiber from cooked veggies and (cooked) fruits. Then if you also eat mushrooms and carrots you'll have plenty of fiber.
     
  12. OP
    raypeatclips

    raypeatclips Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    2,556
    I've seen this quote before and have a feeling it is quite old. He may have changed his mind in this since then
     
  13. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    6,772
    he doesn't like raw veggies such as salad.

    Regarding one sided shaking:

     
  14. OP
    raypeatclips

    raypeatclips Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    2,556
    Yeah I have noticed him mention this a lot, strongly thinks that green salads are a negative.
     
  15. I suppose if you don't like mushrooms, and don't want to eat a raw carrot every day, and same with veggies, it might be appropriate to eat an oatcake or two a day (for example) if it helps with BM frequency.
     
  16. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2015
    Messages:
    2,492
    It is. The quote is from his book "Nutrition for Women", chapter "Laxatives".
     
  17. schultz

    schultz Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,917
    He has talked about fiber a bit on the podcasts. Here is one from Politics and Science (the best Peat podcast).

    JOHN BURKHAUSEN: I see. As long as we’re on the subject of digestion, how important is it that people have regular bowl movements?

    RAY PEAT: I think like the person who popularized fiber 40, 50 years ago in the US, was studying the African relative freedom from bowel problems, cancer, and he saw that they typically would have three bowel movements a day and that they ate lots of potatoes, that it was the fiber in the potato stimulating the intestine that seemed to protect their bowl. So he published these about the benefits of fiber and the cereal industry in the US started selling oat bran as the preventive of colon cancer, which caught on in the 70s, but then in the 80's some Australians tested oat bran diets on animals and found that it promoted – increased the incidence of bowel cancer apparently by the nature of the breakdown products.

    JOHN BURKHAUSEN: Yeah. I don’t think that knowledge has ever gotten around.

    RAY PEAT: Not very well. But, in general, fiber does clean the intestine and keeping it moving lowers the estrogen re-absorption. The bile puts out – tries to get rid of toxic materials, including the estrogen. And if you don’t have a regular movement through the intestine, a lot of that gets recycled, reabsorbed and raises your general exposure to toxins, including estrogen.


    Here is another quote from a different podcast:

    RAY PEAT: Calcium, if you have a high ratio of calcium to phosphate, calcium happens to suppress the fermentation of fiber and starch in the intestine, so high calcium intake will actually reduce the production of the endotoxin as well as reducing the consequences of your reaction to the endotoxin. The saturated fats – having some fat in your food does various things that can be helpful. There is a germicidal effect of the fatty acids that helps to keep the intestine sterile and you should be able to absorb your fat by roughly half to two-thirds of the way down your small intestine where it’s still sterile. But if you eat fat with a fiber, the fat helps to suppress the bacteria and it can help the fiber persist and go all the way through your intestine. So it can turn what would be a harmful fiber supporting endotoxin, it can turn it into a useful sort of a bowel stimulating bulk-former."

    And notice in this quote how he talks about fat:

    RAY PEAT: "Yes, there are some studies that show that the toxic effect of these fibers that can cause anxiety, aggression and bowel cancer, fats defend against those processes by probably suppressing bacterial growth, and the best fats at suppressing bacterial and fungal growth in the intestine are the saturated fats, so butter and coconut oil for example are protective against the fibers, so it's important to include some of those in your daily intake. And if you get enough protein 80 to 100 calories or more – 80 to 100 grams per day or more, and if you consider the importance of fat and the essentiality of protein, then that leaves you only a certain amount for carbohydrate and that I think is where the fruit sugar and other sugars are a safe bet even if all the rest of your calories are in the form of fruit and other sugars I think that's safe as long as you're getting your saturated fat and protein."

    And another...

    RAY PEAT:
    Starches and indigestible fibers have been tested on various animals, from horses to rats and practically all of the fibers that are used as food additives carrageenan and guar gum, various other gums, oat bran and even some of the semi-synthetic things, Metamucil, agar and psyllium, all have been identified as carcinogens for the intestine and possibly other organs and getting those out quickly before they support bacterial growth...

    SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: ... and ferment.

    RAY PEAT:
    Yeah. The fermentative bacteria are known to increase the serotonin and lactic acid production.

    SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And the endotoxin that we have mentioned.

    RAY PEAT: Yeah. There’s a back and forth increase of endotoxin by the serotonin and vice versa.

    Later in the same podcast:

    RAY PEAT: Denis Burkitt, who sort of started the fiber fad about 30 years ago when he discovered that Africans didn’t have a very high incidence of bowel and liver cancer and that they tended to have three bowel movements per day, where Americans are more likely to have one or fewer, and he said that he thought fiber prevented the retention of the carcinogenic toxins, but he was talking primarily about potatoes. And when he came to the US and saw that people were interpreting it as oat fiber, oat bran, and various other grain fibers, a few people outside of the US did research showing that, in fact, those increase cancer incidences.

    Last one (promise)

    CALLER: OK and so like the potato skin, obviously that is not digestible so that’s gonna probably sit in the intestine and feed bacteria or is that going to pass through too?

    RAY PEAT: No, cellulose is a very harmless fiber because bacteria generally can't break it down. Only a few types of bacteria can attack cellulose so it passes through just as bulky fiber. But the potato family, like the tomatoes, the whole family includes chemicals that are highly allergenic, so if you are allergic to tomatoes you are likely to have some reaction to chillies, eggplants and ray peat: potatoes too.

    CALLER: So are you saying the whole potato in general or the skin itself.

    RAY PEAT: The skin has the most allergens.

    CALLER: OK, so it is a good idea to peel that then, more than likely?

    RAY PEAT: Yeah.
     
  18. Ella

    Ella Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    641
    You could have said psyllium husks or oatbran but no you had to ask about green salads, which may have insulted his intelligence. How many times does he have to regurgitate that green salads are difficult for humans to digest but bacteria love to party on it. :) Peat boils leafy greens to extract magnesium and other minerals. He throws away the greens. However, if you have healthy thyroid function, quick transit time, then green salad maybe OK. You want to make sure you sterilise whatever is living on those greens. Peat considers greens superior to other vegetables but does not advocate eating them raw in salads or juicing them. You are forgiven, my son. Yes, there once was a time in a faraway land, long forgotten where people had no fear of iceberg lettuce, spinach, rocket, and other leafy greens. In these modern days when glyphosate rules our pastures, leafy greens even cooked is enough for mothers and fathers to despair and lose hope. There will be no more demented parents cajoling and bribing their children to eat their greens. They will feast on sweet, sweet fruits and milk on pastures that their grandparents and great-great parents fought hard to protect from the evil giants.
     
  19. Thanks @schultz
    That's very helpful.
    Sounds to me like fiber is really important, in Peat's view, especially if you have infrequent or irregular bowel movements.
    I've been infrequent for a while, and also low fiber, notwithstanding the occasional carrot. I'm going to add buttered oatcakes to see if that makes a difference.
     
  20. "And when he came to the US and saw that people were interpreting it as oat fiber, oat bran, and various other grain fibers, a few people outside of the US did research showing that, in fact, those increase cancer incidences."

    I wonder if that's raw or undercooked oat fiber, specifically, that has the correlation with increased cancer incidences. I suppose if you can find a way to have good, frequent bowel movements, that may be the priority over whether it's ideal fiber.
     
Loading...