Metabolic Advantage / Fat Free / Foods / Athlete

[tca300]

@tca300 no no dont go. That is lovely that you need all that liquid. Do you think i was a combination of the long time of low pufa and low fat that did it or did also thyroid supplement also play a big factor? i have never managed to be able to use thyroid to make a change. Used all the difference brands and protocols as well

I think keeping PUFA so low for so long without binging on it even once, as well as increasing protein, calcium, and switching from starch to fruit based sugars made me so warm. It didn't happen overnight, it took several years.
Do you need thyroid as indicated through temps, pulse, low testosterone, cold hands/feet, blood tests, etc?

 

[tca300]

Aren't you urinating all of the time? I never try and consume more than 4L of fluid for fear of needing the john all day long...

I'm so hot that I burn it off through evaporation I think. Even with all that liquid my urine is yellow and not very frequent.

 

[Braveheart]

Sorry, I was having a rough day when I said that. I've threatened to leave many times before, but am all talk . Many post life saving information here, and thats too valuable to disassociate myself from.

Personally, your feedback is always looked forward to...one needs a little thick skin to grapple w this forum sometimes...no need to argue your points...just state them, because you believe in them, and you think they will help, and you want to share...it's up to the reader to put all the different view points together for themselves.

 

[superhuman]

@tca300 Understand. What have you found now based on your latest research/testing that is the minimum amount of protein you need daily and what is an optimal range for you to aim for? and also do you have a preference in regards to the meal frequency of protein feedings and or amount of protein each meal?

 

[tca300]

@superhuman As far as protein needs, getting at least 1 gram per pound of fat free mass seems to be about right for weight training purposes ( not including gelatin, from highly digestible/bioavailable sources containing all amino acids, milk, fruit, mushrooms, liver etc.. ) total it ends up at aroud 180 grams including gelatin, glycine, and taurine. For me, protein intake up to 40 grams at a given time works well, as long as its matched with at least a 1:1 ratio with sugars ( lactose, sucrose, glucose, fructose ). I need to eat at least 4 times per day because of the sheer volume of food I eat, But back in my fasting days 1-2 big calorie dense meals seemed fine. I kinda have the opinion now that more sugar feedings is better that 1-2 large ones though.

 

[EIRE24]

@superhuman As far as protein needs, getting at least 1 gram per pound of fat free mass seems to be about right for weight training purposes ( not including gelatin, from highly digestible/bioavailable sources containing all amino acids, milk, fruit, mushrooms, liver etc.. ) total it ends up at aroud 180 grams including gelatin, glycine, and taurine. For me, protein intake up to 40 grams at a given time works well, as long as its matched with at least a 1:1 ratio with sugars ( lactose, sucrose ). I need to eat at least 4 times per day because of the sheer volume of food I eat, But back in my fasting days 1-2 big calorie dense meals seemed fine. I kinda have the opinion now that more sugar feedings is better that 1-2 large ones though.

How many times a week do you eat liver and exactly how much?

 

[tca300]

@EIRE24 Small amounts everyday. Raw weight of 15-30 grams.

 

[Braveheart]

@EIRE24 Small amounts everyday. Raw weight of 15-30 grams.

beef or chicken liver

 

[tca300]

@bzmazu I use beef.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I've been thinking about fat gain and macronutrients recently. In Do Carbohydrates Turn Into Fat? No the image posted indicated that 25% of the energy gained by carbohydrate in an energy excess is used to convert the carbohydrate into fat. In theory, that means you can eat more energy and not gain weight so long as you increase carbohydrates and decrease fat in a certain proportion.

So let's say you start with a diet of 600/60/140 grams of carbs/fat/protein respectively. That would represent a caloric intake of 3500kcal.

Let's say you reduced fat by 20g. That represents a 180kcal reduction, which we can get back by adding 45g of carbohydrate. But, if we consider the above effect, that 25% of carbohydrate energy at a surplus is used and not stored, then we could in theory add 56g of carbohydrate to make up for the loss of 20g fat.

Essentially, what I'm saying is:

600/60/140 (3500kcal) represents the same amount of fat storage (if that were a surplus) as:
656/40/140 (3544kcal).

In short the less fat you eat, the more carbohydrates you can eat (energetically speaking) without gaining weight. Is this conclusion correct? @haidut @Westside PUFAs

If a 600/60/140 (3500kcal) diet represented a calorie maintenance level for a person (no weight gained or lost), then on a fat free diet you could increase carbohydrates by 168g (so 768g total), which would increase total energy intake by 132 calories. So not a lot really, but it's something - certainly a 'metabolic advantage'.

I currently eat around 40g of fat a day, and about 650g of carbohydrate. I don't seem to be getting fatter, although my weight is increasing (which I'd presume to be lean mass).

I believe so.

 

[Wagner83]

@tca300 You do not get my point, I'm not pro starch or against it, that's the kind of debate or discussion that is irrelevant to me. The thing is people need to experiment and make their own decisions, I personnally think starch can be a good source of carbs depending on how we react to it, I experimented with no starch and full fruit juices and sucrose and ended up with a pretty serious issue. So being cautious is a good thing when it comes to diet, the OP did not mention having problems with starch other than saying it tastes like paper.

A quick update to say I seem to tolerate sucrose/fructose a lot better these days. I still eat a lot of starch (wacky potatoes and pasta/bread). One day after drinking a fair amount of apple juice with pressed strained lemon juice for a couple of days and drinking some coffee I felt weird muscles spasms in the back at chest level, it was weird but I felt like something was then freed in the stomach, I had to quickly go to the toilets , dark liquid color made me think the "reactivated gallbladder and restored bile flow" explanation may not be completely stupid after all. Since then (and ***t tons of potatoes , which are packed with nutrients ) things have been a lot better with fruit juices and even pepsi (coke not so much), at least I have not experienced the frightening issues .

 

[superhuman]

@superhuman As far as protein needs, getting at least 1 gram per pound of fat free mass seems to be about right for weight training purposes ( not including gelatin, from highly digestible/bioavailable sources containing all amino acids, milk, fruit, mushrooms, liver etc.. ) total it ends up at aroud 180 grams including gelatin, glycine, and taurine. For me, protein intake up to 40 grams at a given time works well, as long as its matched with at least a 1:1 ratio with sugars ( lactose, sucrose, glucose, fructose ). I need to eat at least 4 times per day because of the sheer volume of food I eat, But back in my fasting days 1-2 big calorie dense meals seemed fine. I kinda have the opinion now that more sugar feedings is better that 1-2 large ones though.

Lovely. Have you done the IF thing while peating? So say 1-2 meals or 3 in 8 hour period vs more frequent meals like 4+ like you said. And if so did you notice any difference in terms of fat loss, energy, NEAT, mental things, pulse/temp or other metabolic markers between the two?

 

[tca300]

Lovely. Have you done the IF thing while peating? So say 1-2 meals or 3 in 8 hour period vs more frequent meals like 4+ like you said. And if so did you notice any difference in terms of fat loss, energy, NEAT, mental things, pulse/temp or other metabolic markers between the two?

Not really lol. Maybe 12 hours without eating at most. I read a human study in regards to the 16/8 fasting and even though calories were the same in both groups it showed a drop in T3, testosterone, and co2 in the fasting group. I've been trying to dig it up, but am having trouble finding it. I can lose fat faster and be much warmer now than in my fasting days, plus with my high volume consumption, it would be very difficult, and unpleasant to try to consume all that in 8 hours.

 

[superhuman]

Not really lol. Maybe 12 hours without eating at most. I read a human study in regards to the 16/8 fasting and even though calories were the same in both groups it showed a drop in T3, testosterone, and co2 in the fasting group. I've been trying to dig it up, but am having trouble finding it. I can lose fat faster and be much warmer now than in my fasting days, plus with my high volume consumption, it would be very difficult, and unpleasant to try to consume all that in 8 hours.

Get you. Do you attribute that(lose fat faster and be much warmer) mostly to peating or also more frequent meals vs peating with fasting?

How much do you eat now a day when cutting and how much do you loose a week with that amount?

I have seen the study and read it. What also that did not got mention in the study was that the IF crew also lost more fat and stuff so they were basically calorie restricting meaning that will have an effect on the t3,testosterone etc compared to somebody eating at maintenance.

 

[raypeatclips]

@tca300 Are you eating just over 2000 calories a day?

 

[tca300]

Lowering PUFA in my tissues, eating more calcium, salt, protein, and fruit, are all probably behind the warmth and faster fat loss. Right now I'm at about 2500kcal and I lose on average 2 lbs per week, I made a high coconut oil eating mistake about 1 or so years ago, and am getting rid of that currently. Im thinking about upping my fruit a little more to slow the weight loss, but we will see. My kcals dont include 3-5 grams of taurine. I also only eat small amounts of liver 1-2 times per week.

@superhuman @raypeatclips

 

[raypeatclips]

@tca300 Thanks. I am surprised by you eating 2500 calories I expected a lot more. You weightlift, take T3, 500mg caffeine don't you? Do you know why you succeed without the high (3000 minimum) calorie intakes some people suggest?

Also how do you manage 25g beef liver a day? Freeze it in 25g portions and defrost one overnight?

 

[tca300]

@raypeatclips I do weight lift but not in the typical bodybuilder way. I lift very heavy, low volume, high rest periods, 3 days per week max.
I stopped taking T3 because it was driving my cholesterol levels too low. Caffeine just from coffee. I could eat up to about 3400kcals and still lose a little bit of fat each week, but Im impatient, and am doing just fine on a larger deficit. Yes, I buy fresh unfrozen, chop it up into specific sizes, freeze, etc...

 

[superhuman]

@tca300 That is great. Hmm interesting part about T3 driving down your cholesterol to low, what signs did you have when you noticed that? in terms of cholesterole beeing low?

Also how much salt do you consume a day now and previous? did you have a period where you consumed more? im asking because of my water retention problems and never really figured out salt thing

 

[tca300]

Libido went down, muscle fullness dropped, and minor depression were the main symptoms for me. When I donated blood ( they do a free total cholesterol test for you, I donate about every 2-3 months ) I saw that my total went from 165 to 135, and knew what was going on.
I use to just sprinkle small amounts on food, then I used it as a supplement, because salted fruit and milk aren't appetizing to me. Now I have 4-5 cups ( water with 1 Tbsp of gelatin ) dissolved warm gelatin and I put about 3/4 Tsp of salt in those, plus whatever I put on liver when I eat it. I think its about 7 grams per day. I consume more now, because Im experamenting with its fat loss effects. This is by far the most salt I have eaten regularly.