Peat Is Right About Starch

Sobieski

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I've been applying Peat principles since June/July but the past four days have been the first time cutting out starch (white rice and potatoes have always remained in my diet). I've replaced the calories with more sugar and more saturated fat from cheese, chocolate, eggs, orange juice, milk, fruit and ice cream. Still eating around 300g carbs everyday.

I've noticed over the past couple of months that I've been slowly gaining weight on my belly despite leaning out everywhere else. Decided to cut starch out as an experiment; I can say over the past few days the fat around my belly has melted away, and I've leaned out everywhere else as well. I've had several comments just in the last two days how ripped I look (yes it's made a difference that quickly). My energy levels are also better. I shall continue to monitor my progress and see how this pans out but for those who have weight or energy issues I highly recommend cutting out starch and seeing how you get on.

I'd be very interested to hear of those who have had similar experiences as mine in this albeit short time frame.
 

jamies33

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I've been applying Peat principles since June/July but the past four days have been the first time cutting out starch (white rice and potatoes have always remained in my diet). I've replaced the calories with more sugar and more saturated fat from cheese, chocolate, eggs, orange juice, milk, fruit and ice cream. Still eating around 300g carbs everyday.

I've noticed over the past couple of months that I've been slowly gaining weight on my belly despite leaning out everywhere else. Decided to cut starch out as an experiment; I can say over the past few days the fat around my belly has melted away, and I've leaned out everywhere else as well. I've had several comments just in the last two days how ripped I look (yes it's made a difference that quickly). My energy levels are also better. I shall continue to monitor my progress and see how this pans out but for those who have weight or energy issues I highly recommend cutting out starch and seeing how you get on.

I'd be very interested to hear of those who have had similar experiences as mine in this albeit short time frame.
Do you exercise? People who lift weights report having starch cravings after workouts and I wonder if that impulse should be fought
 

theLaw

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Do you exercise? People who lift weights report having starch cravings after workouts and I wonder if that impulse should be fought

Pardon the interjection,

Starch is just condensed carbs, hence the "cravings". I assume it's the body's way of signaling that it needs caloric density fast.

I think most people here are underfed and practicing some level of caloric restriction, hence all difficulty in applying Peat's suggestions. Even his Milk + OJ is supposed to be added to the diet at the beginning, not in place of it, increasing calories significantly.

Also, interesting to note that the caloric breakdowns of Pizza, arguably the most popular food in the west, is 15%pro/30%fat/55%carbs, which is perfectly in line with Peat's suggestions (minus the Pufa and starch of course).

So those "cravings" might just be about caloric density more than anything else.
 

jamies33

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Pardon the interjection,

Starch is just condensed carbs, hence the "cravings". I assume it's the body's way of signaling that it needs caloric density fast.

I think most people here are underfed and practicing some level of caloric restriction, hence all difficulty in applying Peat's suggestions. Even his Milk + OJ is supposed to be added to the diet at the beginning, not in place of it, increasing calories significantly.

Also, interesting to note that the caloric breakdowns of Pizza, arguably the most popular food in the west, is 15%pro/30%fat/55%carbs, which is perfectly in line with Peat's suggestions (minus the Pufa and starch of course).

So those "cravings" might just be about caloric density more than anything else.
Why would you need a pardon for adding to a thread?

Some members here, Westside PUFA in particular, are pro starch, which is obviously anti peat to begin with, but so is exercise, generally speaking. Some members have also reported feeling a thirst for starch after exercise that is not quenched even with proportionally larger sugar/orange juice intake, that IS quenched with rice or potatoes. An anti-peat food for an anti-peat activity perhaps, I dont have all the answers, and no one here does despite some needing to sound like they do :D
 

raypeatclips

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Why would you need a pardon for adding to a thread?

Some members here, Westside PUFA in particular, are pro starch, which is obviously anti peat to begin with, but so is exercise, generally speaking. Some members have also reported feeling a thirst for starch after exercise that is not quenched even with proportionally larger sugar/orange juice intake, that IS quenched with rice or potatoes. An anti-peat food for an anti-peat activity perhaps, I dont have all the answers, and no one here does despite some needing to sound like they do :D

Have you actually read and listened to Peat, instead of just reading people's interpretations of him? He has said potato is an almost perfect food and has spoken positively about the potato many many times, said that masa Harina is good, said rice with butter would be okay for most people, said slow fermented sourdough bread was probably on par with rice and potatoes. The only people that say things like starch is "anti Peat" are new to Peating and are obsessively orthorexic. The only thing that is "anti Peat" If there was such a thing would be PUFA.

Also "exercise" isn't anti Peat at all... Seriously just read more of his things and listen to his interviews, hold off posting on here for a bit, it wouldn't surprise me if you had only just read thing on this forum and never read an article on his website or listened to an interview. He doesn't like the long distance jogging you see people do with their mouths hanging open gasping in air. Has said many positive things about lifting weights, sprints, a.k.a. building muscle
 

jamies33

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Have you actually read and listened to Peat, instead of just reading people's interpretations of him? He said said potato is an almost perfect food and has spoken positively about the potato many many times, said that masa Harina is good, said rice with butter would be okay for most people, said slow fermented sourdough bread was probably on par with rice and potatoes. The only people that say things like starch is "anti Peat" are new to Peating and are obsessively orthorexic.
Yes, I have listened to lots of your clips on peat and have read some articles, not all, which if I had read all I may not be here truth seeking to begin with. The condescending tone is noted.

Peat has said MULTIPLE times that starch feeds endotoxin, endotoxin increases serotonin and estrogen, thus starch bad, UNLESS it is well cooked and smeared with fat, then it is acceptable. Ok, fair. As I implied in my original question on this thread, I DONT believe starch to be bad; so much so, in fact, that practitioners of peat style eating actually see starch as a good and healthful food, AND people crave it after exercise, myself included. Labelling starch and exercise as "anti-peat" was meant to save time in explaining the nuances of various context; generally speaking, avoiding hard exertion and getting carbs from sucrose, fructose and lactose is best. I am attempting to understand the OPs situation and see if it may somehow then apply to my context.
 

jamies33

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Also "exercise" isn't anti Peat at all... Seriously just read more of his things and listen to his interviews, hold off posting on here for a bit, it wouldn't surprise me if you had only just read thing on this forum and never read an article on his website or listened to an interview. He doesn't like the long distance jogging you see people do with their mouths hanging open gasping in air. Has said many positive things about lifting weights, sprints, a.k.a. building muscle
Ah, I see an added edit. The tone is again noted. I'm not sure why this is turning into a "who has read more of Ray Peat" pissing contest all because I asked if the OP exercised. He has said numerous times that doing joint bending exercises with light dumbbells, and building muscle in doing so, is best. His description of exercise is nowhere near what Id describe as vigorous, coming from an athletic background myself, and I was investigating whether the OP was sedentary, into what I think of as Peat's style of low-intensity exercise, or what I would think of as high intensity.

Again, this is about asking if the OP exercised, because some people report starch cravings with exercise, and I was wondering if he had to fight those cravings.
 

Wagner83

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His post isn't condescending at all imo, I think he's mostly sharing his experience with the forums, ray peat's work and his own diet issues (like me and others, he tried to ditch starch and failed, only to recover by adding it back in).
 

jamies33

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His post isn't condescending at all imo, I think he's mostly sharing his experience with the forums, ray peat's work and his own diet issues (like me and others, he tried to ditch starch and failed, only to recover by adding it back in).
Ah, I see - I am also in the midst of "failing" to ditch starch completely, which makes me all the more curious to hear about OP story!
 

raypeatclips

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Ah, I see an added edit. The tone is again noted. I'm not sure why this is turning into a "who has read more of Ray Peat" pissing contest all because I asked if the OP exercised. He has said numerous times that doing joint bending exercises with light dumbbells, and building muscle in doing so, is best. His description of exercise is nowhere near what Id describe as vigorous, coming from an athletic background myself, and I was investigating whether the OP was sedentary, into what I think of as Peat's style of low-intensity exercise, or what I would think of as high intensity.

Again, this is about asking if the OP exercised, because some people report starch cravings with exercise, and I was wondering if he had to fight those cravings.

Sorry if I seemed condescending, I didn't mean to, and it is nothing to do with how much Peat you or I have read. This forum is just notorious for putting things into good or bad categories based on small excerpts Peat has said. When he has said many other things that would place the thing into the opposite category.

Well look at that. People arguing about Peats view on starch. :-o

 

jamies33

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Sorry if I seemed condescending, I didn't mean to, and it is nothing to do with how much Peat you or I have read. This forum is just notorious for putting things into good or bad categories based on what Peat has said.



Sir, I appear to have over-reacted - it is I who will apologize. I think this situation arises because I ask a lot of questions and probably add too much conjecture/hearsay that makes it appear as though Im purely gathering information through anecdotes, Id like to assure you that isnt the case. I see Peat's work and podcasts as the source of information, and this forum as how it applies to different people in different contexts
 

tca300

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Im thinking unless you got liposuction you didn't actually lose that much fat that quickly. Water retention would be much more plausible.

Me: If you don't mind me asking a question. A lot of people seem to be under the impression that you think starches are OK or even beneficial to eat, even when Fruit is available. Some are saying that super cooked starch to the point of it being wet and somewhat soggy, has beneficial effects that surpass sucrose. I was wondering if you think that stuff is accurate or is starch harmful and not ideal when compared to fruits and their sugars. Thank you!
Ray Peat: When a non-starchy fruit is available I think it’s always preferable to starch. Alkali-processed corn is the only kind that I’m willing to eat, and seldom that (e.g., corundas made with wood ashes).

Ray Peat: For people with really sensitive intestines or bad bacteria, starch should be zero.
Ray Peat: Starch-grain embolisms can cause brain damage..
Ray Peat: There isn't anything wrong with a high carbohydrate diet, and even a high starch diet isn't necessarily incompatible with good health, but when better foods are available they should be used instead of starches.

Ray Peat: In the winter in the US, I use a lot of frozen orange juice concentrate, because good fruit is scarce. When you use refined sugar it’s important to avoid the starchy foods, emphasizing milk, cheese, eggs, fruits, and occasional liver and seafood. Cooked leafy greens and mushrooms should substitute for starchy vegetables.

Ray Peat doesn't see starch as ideal at all, doesn't eat it himself, and makes it clear that people with gut problems ( bacteria overgrowth, etc ) shouldn't eat them, and healthy people with fruit access should choose fruits instead of starches. After reading Rays work for over a decade, and having many conversations with him, its obvious to me that he doesn't see starch as a good food choice in relation to other commonly available foods ( in the U.S )
Whether or not YOU PERSONALLY think starch is ok/healthy or not has nothing to do with Ray Peats opinion on it.
 

Sobieski

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OP here- I don't really do much formal exercise anymore but I work in construction in a very physically demanding area. Lots of heavy work. I don't feel the need for starch TBH, at this moment in time. I don't have cravings etc as orange juice, sugar and some fruit seem to be keeping me going pretty well so far.

When I say Peat is right about starch; I'm referring to Peat claiming it's more fattening than sugar, but I also believe the endo-toxin/hormonal element is also at play in the leaning out effect. Only time will tell. Ultimately everyone is different and some people might need starch others might not. A lot of people on this forum also advocate very low fat but I feel way better eating plenty of it (saturated of course) but maybe that's due to the nature of my work.
 

Sobieski

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Im thinking unless you got liposuction you didn't actually lose that much fat that quickly. Water retention would be much more plausible.
.


I have no doubt water retention has a role to play as well. For all I know it could be all water retention and no fat loss; either way it appears something positive is occurring in my body.
 

kreeese

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omg me 2!! awesome stuff been practicing lots of saturated fats 60 percent of cals and lots of sugar...raw white honey coke etc. some fruit 2 percent milk and oj losing a ton of weight at about 3100 calories a dayyy this is funnnnn
 

jamies33

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Im thinking unless you got liposuction you didn't actually lose that much fat that quickly. Water retention would be much more plausible.

Me: If you don't mind me asking a question. A lot of people seem to be under the impression that you think starches are OK or even beneficial to eat, even when Fruit is available. Some are saying that super cooked starch to the point of it being wet and somewhat soggy, has beneficial effects that surpass sucrose. I was wondering if you think that stuff is accurate or is starch harmful and not ideal when compared to fruits and their sugars. Thank you!
Ray Peat: When a non-starchy fruit is available I think it’s always preferable to starch. Alkali-processed corn is the only kind that I’m willing to eat, and seldom that (e.g., corundas made with wood ashes).

Ray Peat: For people with really sensitive intestines or bad bacteria, starch should be zero.
Ray Peat: Starch-grain embolisms can cause brain damage..
Ray Peat: There isn't anything wrong with a high carbohydrate diet, and even a high starch diet isn't necessarily incompatible with good health, but when better foods are available they should be used instead of starches.

Ray Peat: In the winter in the US, I use a lot of frozen orange juice concentrate, because good fruit is scarce. When you use refined sugar it’s important to avoid the starchy foods, emphasizing milk, cheese, eggs, fruits, and occasional liver and seafood. Cooked leafy greens and mushrooms should substitute for starchy vegetables.

Ray Peat doesn't see starch as ideal at all, doesn't eat it himself, and makes it clear that people with gut problems ( bacteria overgrowth, etc ) shouldn't eat them, and healthy people with fruit access should choose fruits instead of starches. After reading Rays work for over a decade, and having many conversations with him, its obvious to me that he doesn't see starch as a good food choice in relation to other commonly available foods ( in the U.S )
Whether or not YOU PERSONALLY think starch is ok/healthy or not has nothing to do with Ray Peats opinion on it.
thanks for that, it verified my thoughts regarding Peat's stance on sugar/starch
 

Sobieski

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omg me 2!! awesome stuff been practicing lots of saturated fats 60 percent of cals and lots of sugar...raw white honey coke etc. some fruit 2 percent milk and oj losing a ton of weight at about 3100 calories a dayyy this is funnnnn
Glad to hear you're finding success; This is how I instinctively ate as a teenager and I was a muscular single digit body fat despite no exercise. Feel like I'm slowly undoing years of damage bit by bit but it's a slow process. Who knew the secret to good health is coke and ice cream? Lol.
 

theLaw

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Why would you need a pardon for adding to a thread?

Some members here, Westside PUFA in particular, are pro starch, which is obviously anti peat to begin with, but so is exercise, generally speaking. Some members have also reported feeling a thirst for starch after exercise that is not quenched even with proportionally larger sugar/orange juice intake, that IS quenched with rice or potatoes. An anti-peat food for an anti-peat activity perhaps, I dont have all the answers, and no one here does despite some needing to sound like they do :D

I was just referring to the fact that I was responding to a question aimed at another member, so I didn't want to interrupt.

I think that the proportion is the problem as starch is a very dense carb source, so replacing it with sugar or OJ might be a tall order if someone is stressed.

Starch is also a lower-liquid/higher-salt deliver tool, which mimics many of the traditional meals that people are familiar with.
 
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