Endotoxin and Back Pain, Arthritis pain

[valzim]

Lots of great information on this site. Thank you all. This is really helping people including me. I have question about starches, endotoxins, pain, etc.

Short history. I'm 55, mostly healthy throughout my life however I'm now realizing I have lower than normal temps and lower thyroid function. I was on a keto type diet but not too strict for 3 years. I'm very lean and was getting leaner. Not good. So now, I'm following a RP diet and feeling better overall, gained 10 pounds, mood improved. My pain issues: A couple of years ago I injured my hands with small hilti chipper taking up floor tile. It's the common area for arthritis between thumb and wrist. That's the only arthritis pain I have. And I, like most people, have dealt with minor back pain in the past too. In addition to that I have a small area of eczema that comes and goes. I thought the cause was wheat. I thought it was dairy. But could never pinpoint the real cause. It's been coming and going for easy 8-10 years.

Was still eating starch but decided to see how I feel if I eliminate it. Been starch free for about a week. I bought some CamphoSal as well. Started about 10 days ago with a few drops but quickly went to 15-20 every morning on empty stomach. For the most part, that's been event free. No loud gurgling sounds, no cramps, no diarrhea or change in that regards. Biggest problem is pain in hands and now back. I have noticed that my hands that were pretty pain free have been hurting and now I have back pain for going on 4 days and not getting better. I exercise 5 days a week and have been back pain free for a long time. So this is new. The eczema seems to be ok. Not flaring up.

So between CamphoSal and no starch, is the bad gut bacteria dying? Does it release more endotoxin when it dies? Should I slow down on the CamphoSal and take some Activated Charcoal or Diatomaceous Earth? Would like to hear other people's experiences with this.

 

[LucH]

Hi,
eczema is often a sign of an overloaded liver (+ stress). The kidneys no longer evacuate properly. Pay attention to intestinal permeability (leaky gut). I'm not going to develop here, but you have to dig that way, instead of focusing on one type of diet. Understand: listen to your feelings and adapt the diet. Not everyone tolerates the same foods and / or assimilates at the same rate. I would inquire about the assistance for a LPS overload. We accompany and we delay if necessary.
For back pain, I would dig the facias trail. Arthritis is an immune reaction. For osteoarthrosis, I would bet again on low grade inflammation and functional overload. I would do a small cure of white willow extract (milder than aspirin for stomach walls) and I would use the essential oil wintergreen but that will not be enough.
Interesting links (in French, but with English sources):
- LPS endotoxins:
Effets protecteurs du cholesterol sur les endotoxines
- Undestanding the fascias:

Comprendre les fascias

Comprendre les fasciasUn réseau élastique innervé servant damortisseur pour soulager les tensions;Entretenir la mobilité des fascias pour prévenir les tensions

mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org

 

[cjm]

Lots of great information on this site. Thank you all. This is really helping people including me. I have question about starches, endotoxins, pain, etc.

Short history. I'm 55, mostly healthy throughout my life however I'm now realizing I have lower than normal temps and lower thyroid function. I was on a keto type diet but not too strict for 3 years. I'm very lean and was getting leaner. Not good. So now, I'm following a RP diet and feeling better overall, gained 10 pounds, mood improved. My pain issues: A couple of years ago I injured my hands with small hilti chipper taking up floor tile. It's the common area for arthritis between thumb and wrist. That's the only arthritis pain I have. And I, like most people, have dealt with minor back pain in the past too. In addition to that I have a small area of eczema that comes and goes. I thought the cause was wheat. I thought it was dairy. But could never pinpoint the real cause. It's been coming and going for easy 8-10 years.

Was still eating starch but decided to see how I feel if I eliminate it. Been starch free for about a week. I bought some CamphoSal as well. Started about 10 days ago with a few drops but quickly went to 15-20 every morning on empty stomach. For the most part, that's been event free. No loud gurgling sounds, no cramps, no diarrhea or change in that regards. Biggest problem is pain in hands and now back. I have noticed that my hands that were pretty pain free have been hurting and now I have back pain for going on 4 days and not getting better. I exercise 5 days a week and have been back pain free for a long time. So this is new. The eczema seems to be ok. Not flaring up.

So between CamphoSal and no starch, is the bad gut bacteria dying? Does it release more endotoxin when it dies? Should I slow down on the CamphoSal and take some Activated Charcoal or Diatomaceous Earth? Would like to hear other people's experiences with this.

I had a weird experience with Camphosal. I wrote about it on the IdeaLabs thread while it was happening. I think you are experiencing what low(er) cortisol feels like. You're still cruising along but not as "cushioned" as before. I had the most severe mental irritability when I was taking it but it didn't feel like (endotoxin) poisoning. More like a veil had been lifted and I was operating at an emotional half capacity. Cortisol angle makes sense to me. The body is wise to draw you to those spots that are nagging you again, the increased awareness is an opportunity to work new energy into them. I'm jealous your list is so short! I'd say the eczema staying away is the premier sign things are working in a good direction, and hopefully these effects of Camphosal persist for a while as advertised. How's your tongue looking, nice and clear?

 

[valzim]

cjm, Great point about the tongue. I did forget to mention that. I do have geographical tongue for the past couple years I guess. Can't really remember when it started. The severity has fluctuated I guess with my diet. And tongue has not been pink and fleshy. Does have a bit of white tint. Although that too been better lately. I did take 2 Activated Charcoal pills and my back has been much better today. It's so crazy how this is all ties in together. I told my wife that my back hurts because I was killing the bad gut bacteria and they were releasing endotoxin. Yes, she thinks I'm crazy. So thank you all for this forum to discuss these "nutty" ideas.

I will slow down on the CamphoSal as I don't want to rely too much on the Activated Charcoal. Didn't RP say something about not using AC long-term?

 

[cjm]

thank you all for this forum to discuss these "nutty" ideas.

+1000

I did take 2 Activated Charcoal pills and my back has been much better today

That would support the endotoxin theory. I love this Ray line about the runt pigs on charcoal:

“I have previously discussed the use of antibiotics (and/or carrot fiber and/or charcoal) to relieve the premenstrual syndrome, and have mentioned the study in which the lifespan was extended by occasionally adding charcoal to the diet. A few years ago, I heard about a Mexican farmer who collected his neighbors’ runt pigs, and got them to grow normally by adding charcoal to their diet. This probably achieves the same thing as adding antibiotics to their food, which is practiced by pig farmers in the US to promote growth and efficient use of food.

Even if it isn't endotoxin per se that's the issue, you might have some kind of toxic load that charcoal is helping with:

"Charcoal, besides binding and removing toxins, is also a powerful catalyst for the oxidative destruction of many toxic chemicals. In a sense, it anticipates the action of the protective enzymes of the intestinal wall and the liver.”

Food-junk and some mystery ailments: Fatigue, Alzheimer's, Colitis, Immunodeficiency (both quotes)

Per long-term usage, this is Peat oft-quoted:

“I’m not confident of the purity and proper particle size of the charcoal products that are available, so I think bamboo shoot and carrots, along with cascara sagrada as needed, are the safest way to keep endotoxin and estrogen under control.”

 

[Hgreen56]

Lots of great information on this site. Thank you all. This is really helping people including me. I have question about starches, endotoxins, pain, etc.

Short history. I'm 55, mostly healthy throughout my life however I'm now realizing I have lower than normal temps and lower thyroid function. I was on a keto type diet but not too strict for 3 years. I'm very lean and was getting leaner. Not good. So now, I'm following a RP diet and feeling better overall, gained 10 pounds, mood improved. My pain issues: A couple of years ago I injured my hands with small hilti chipper taking up floor tile. It's the common area for arthritis between thumb and wrist. That's the only arthritis pain I have. And I, like most people, have dealt with minor back pain in the past too. In addition to that I have a small area of eczema that comes and goes. I thought the cause was wheat. I thought it was dairy. But could never pinpoint the real cause. It's been coming and going for easy 8-10 years.

Was still eating starch but decided to see how I feel if I eliminate it. Been starch free for about a week. I bought some CamphoSal as well. Started about 10 days ago with a few drops but quickly went to 15-20 every morning on empty stomach. For the most part, that's been event free. No loud gurgling sounds, no cramps, no diarrhea or change in that regards. Biggest problem is pain in hands and now back. I have noticed that my hands that were pretty pain free have been hurting and now I have back pain for going on 4 days and not getting better. I exercise 5 days a week and have been back pain free for a long time. So this is new. The eczema seems to be ok. Not flaring up.

So between CamphoSal and no starch, is the bad gut bacteria dying? Does it release more endotoxin when it dies? Should I slow down on the CamphoSal and take some Activated Charcoal or Diatomaceous Earth? Would like to hear other people's experiences with this.

so what you are saying is that when you have eliminate starch, your arthritis symptoms are coming back?
so what do you eat now instead of starch? more sugar?

what do you mean exactly with back pain?
Just joint or muscle pain?
Or more kidney pain?

 

[valzim]

so what you are saying is that when you have eliminate starch, your arthritis symptoms are coming back?
so what do you eat now instead of starch? more sugar?

what do you mean exactly with back pain?
Just joint or muscle pain?
Or more kidney pain?

Cause of my symptoms are so hard to determine. When I went more sugar over starch and added CamphoSal, yes my back hurt for a few days. Not kidneys. Just like a back pain/pinched nerve that most of us have probably experienced . Was it related to reducing starch? Who knows. Pain is gone now though. I am feeling pretty darn good both physically and mentally. Gym workouts are great. I feel like I'm getting stronger. One issue is the arthritis pain in both hands around base of each thumb. I'm very busy, always using hands and going to gym too. So hard to tell what foods or what activity is causing some inflammation there. I'm still experimenting. The starch I have not given up is rice. Will have that a couple times a week. I'll made pancakes recently (1/4 cup oat, flour, 1/4 cup green banana flour, and 1/4 cup dried milk powder). Seems that my hands hurt a bit more with the pancakes. Rice seems ok.

The other issue I'm trying to solve is my tongue. I didn't realize this until a new dentist recently told me, but I have geographical tongue. Probably had this for 2-3 years. I can't really remember when it started. Certain foods aggravate it more than others. For example, cayenne pepper or vinegars will cause slightly raw patches. I have been drinking goat milk because someone on this board said homogenized milk might be an issue. Goat milk is not homogenized. But after favoring sugar over starch and using CamphoSal, I noticed my tongue get whiter, especially toward the back. I was thinking candida but have no diarrhea, no constipation, no gas, no pain in stomach region, poop is normal looking. I've tried mct oil and oil of oregeno in morning on empty stomach. Or diatomaceous earth in morning on empty stomach. And added pro-biotics. I do wear a mouth guard at night and have read that these maybe cause yeast and bacteria in mouth. I've been cleaning that thing more, brushing teeth more and scrapping tongue, and using bee propolis spray on tongue. Whitish really on back of tongue, nothing on inside of cheeks or back of throat. So, is this candida, is it geographical tongue related This is my latest dilemma.

 

[cjm]

Cause of my symptoms are so hard to determine. When I went more sugar over starch and added CamphoSal, yes my back hurt for a few days. Not kidneys. Just like a back pain/pinched nerve that most of us have probably experienced . Was it related to reducing starch? Who knows. Pain is gone now though. I am feeling pretty darn good both physically and mentally. Gym workouts are great. I feel like I'm getting stronger. One issue is the arthritis pain in both hands around base of each thumb. I'm very busy, always using hands and going to gym too. So hard to tell what foods or what activity is causing some inflammation there. I'm still experimenting. The starch I have not given up is rice. Will have that a couple times a week. I'll made pancakes recently (1/4 cup oat, flour, 1/4 cup green banana flour, and 1/4 cup dried milk powder). Seems that my hands hurt a bit more with the pancakes. Rice seems ok.

The other issue I'm trying to solve is my tongue. I didn't realize this until a new dentist recently told me, but I have geographical tongue. Probably had this for 2-3 years. I can't really remember when it started. Certain foods aggravate it more than others. For example, cayenne pepper or vinegars will cause slightly raw patches. I have been drinking goat milk because someone on this board said homogenized milk might be an issue. Goat milk is not homogenized. But after favoring sugar over starch and using CamphoSal, I noticed my tongue get whiter, especially toward the back. I was thinking candida but have no diarrhea, no constipation, no gas, no pain in stomach region, poop is normal looking. I've tried mct oil and oil of oregeno in morning on empty stomach. Or diatomaceous earth in morning on empty stomach. And added pro-biotics. I do wear a mouth guard at night and have read that these maybe cause yeast and bacteria in mouth. I've been cleaning that thing more, brushing teeth more and scrapping tongue, and using bee propolis spray on tongue. Whitish really on back of tongue, nothing on inside of cheeks or back of throat. So, is this candida, is it geographical tongue related This is my latest dilemma.

I'm glad you're getting good workouts in, that's a great sign, especially with your mental strength there as well.

I see the tongue as more of a systemic problem linked to the GI tract. Are you still taking charcoal?

How's your mineral intake in general, particularly magnesium? It could be a good experiment with the arthritis.

What kind of probiotics are you taking? It's possible they are contributing to the tongue problem but it sounds like this was a recent addition.

I know someone that swears by oregano oil for general health and has been taking a small amount daily for 12 years (!). He was talking at me from a close distance and I could not smell his breath. Take that for what it's worth.

Last thought, a little out there, have you experimented with eye drops? I notice a mind-body connection between my eyes and my hands. You could use a slightly hypertonic saline solution (seawater at 3.5% works) to start and see if it "loosens" anything up. Beyond that, there are some OTC anti-histamines that could be a good experiment, but this is a little speculative that it would do anything noticeable.

 

[valzim]

Interesting. I will try it.