Hair loss ThinkTank. Passionate and or Intellectual People

[ChemHead]

The fact you were able to get out of a PFS state is comforting and hopefully you can get back out of this one. Do you feel confidant you'll recover again?

Yes. I'm very close right now.. Probably within a month of recovery. All of the same symptoms I experienced just before complete recovery have been occurring for the past couple months and they've intensified. So, I would be surprised if it's much longer than a month at this point. I plan on fasting between 2-4 weeks next month. So, if I'm not already fully recovered before then, I'd be very surprised if I'm not after the fast.

The last time I recovered, it took probably around 4 years. I've seemed to recover faster this time around and I would attribute this to diet and fasting, but it's still been over 2.5 years... a pretty long time. And I'd say that these past couple years have been mostly a complete waste of life for me. So, I have to live with the fact that I've just lost a couple years of my life from making a foolish decision.

 

[Jack Earth]

Yeah, it's always been my opinion that insufficient estrogenic activity is what's causing the itching and burning and scalp tenderness. What happened for me is that for the first few weeks of fin, that would all go away completely and hair loss completely ceased. Then HPTA dysregulation would occur and itching and hair loss would come back, but the hair would be dry and wispy (due to lowered overall steroid synthesis).

So, to give some background before I say this, I'm currently going through PFS. A few years back, I recovered from finasteride, but, years prior, I changed my diet in a pretty serious way. When I recovered from fin, I fully expected to go back pre-fin state where my scalp was itchy and inflamed and I was losing hair. And this is actually what happened as my 5AR expression returned... for like a month. However, a month after 5AR expression returned, my aromatase expression then began to increase in response. And not only did I fee incredible, but the itching tender/painful scalp completely stopped and my hair loss completely stopped. There's nothing other than my diet that can be attributed to this.

And if you're wondering why I'm currently in a PFS state, it's because I tried to topically micro dose fin and now here I am 2.5 years later. The worst part is that even if topical microdosing were a viable way to prevent systemic effects from finasteride, it wouldn't have given me the effects I was looking for (thickening of hair shaft).

Insufficient estrogen activity on the scalp? How did you increase it?

 

[ChemHead]

Insufficient estrogen activity on the scalp? How did you increase it?

By using finasteride.. But I used it in a very specific way. I would take between 5-10 mg daily and after about 3 weeks the concentration of testosterone, androstenedione, and other steroids would be very high, while aromatase expression was still normal. So, for another week afterward, my scalp would have elevated levels of estrogens until HPTA dysregulation occurred and my hair would be very thick and dark. After that week HPTA induced down regulation of steroid synthesis and aromatase expression would occur and then my hair would go back to being thin, wispy, and start falling out again.

 

[Jack Earth]

By using finasteride.. But I used it in a very specific way. I would take between 5-10 mg daily and after about 3 weeks the concentration of testosterone, androstenedione, and other steroids would be very high, while aromatase expression was still normal. So, for another week afterward, my scalp would have elevated levels of estrogens until HPTA dysregulation occurred and my hair would be very thick and dark. After that week HPTA induced down regulation of steroid synthesis and aromatase expression would occur and then my hair would go back to being thin, wispy, and start falling out again.

Sounds it's not really worth it to do that then

 

[ChemHead]

Sounds it's not really worth it to do that then

It was only worth it to figure out why it works and what causes it not to work. With that knowledge, I can move forward to figure out the best approach for treatment.

 

[Yucca]

Great article today on the Ben Greenfield blog about hairloss and DHT :

DHT Inhibition Theory: The Flaws, With Jay Campbell & Nick Andrews

Ben Greenfield talks to Jay Campbell and Nick Andrews about why the most popular current theory about hair loss, DHT Inhibition Theory, is flawed.

bengreenfieldfitness.com

 

[DhtAssassin]

Great article today on the Ben Greenfield blog about hairloss and DHT :

DHT Inhibition Theory: The Flaws, With Jay Campbell & Nick Andrews

Ben Greenfield talks to Jay Campbell and Nick Andrews about why the most popular current theory about hair loss, DHT Inhibition Theory, is flawed.

bengreenfieldfitness.com

As soon as he mentioned poor bloodflow I stopped reading. That theory has been debunked ages ago.

 

[GorillaHead]

“As soon as he mentioned poor bloodflow I stopped reading. That theory has been debunked ages ago.”

not exactly no. Blood flow is related but its not in the way people think. Like u can go take tons of vasodilators and only few are actually known to induce hair growth. The circulatory system is more complex than we think. I posted here studies of aga in a women scalp that showed diffuse loss of capillary density and thinning of capillaries. You could easily reference the chicken vs egg concept however it would seem very suspect for the body to take out capilaries just cause hairloss has occured unless they had a serious connection.

 

[DhtAssassin]

“As soon as he mentioned poor bloodflow I stopped reading. That theory has been debunked ages ago.”

not exactly no. Blood flow is related but its not in the way people think. Like u can go take tons of vasodilators and only few are actually known to induce hair growth. The circulatory system is more complex than we think. I posted here studies of aga in a women scalp that showed diffuse loss of capillary density and thinning of capillaries. You could easily reference the chicken vs egg concept however it would seem very suspect for the body to take out capilaries just cause hairloss has occured unless they had a serious connection.

Reducing bloodflow can even improve hairloss which goes along with the DHT in blood = Hairloss theory..

Posterior Auricular Artery Archives | Hair Loss Cure 2020

www.hairlosscure2020.com

 

[Sweet Meat]

Reducing bloodflow can even improve hairloss which goes along with the DHT in blood = Hairloss theory..

Posterior Auricular Artery Archives | Hair Loss Cure 2020

www.hairlosscure2020.com

surely reducing blood flow would improve lymphatic drainage (less blood = less pressure = less edema) if dht accumulates in edemic tissue, which we know is the case, then reducing edema and improving drainage will naturally improve the hair follicles, which would be otherwise get squeezed to death in a swollen, stagnant scalp.

my hair loss started when i was 18 and stopped when i was 24 - slowly regaining ground to my 30s...then during lockdown i lost a lot of ground because i lost access to my pool...i'm not saying swimming cures hair loss, but i am saying swimming cures edema and acts like a full body pressure bandage, making it arguably the single best activity for the lymph system, which seems to plays a huge role in hair loss via edema and subsequent fibrosis of the galea

 

[GorillaHead]

surely reducing blood flow would improve lymphatic drainage (less blood = less pressure = less edema) if dht accumulates in edemic tissue, which we know is the case, then reducing edema and improving drainage will naturally improve the hair follicles, which would be otherwise get squeezed to death in a swollen, stagnant scalp.

my hair loss started when i was 18 and stopped when i was 24 - slowly regaining ground to my 30s...then during lockdown i lost a lot of ground because i lost access to my pool...i'm not saying swimming cures hair loss, but i am saying swimming cures edema and acts like a full body pressure bandage, making it arguably the single best activity for the lymph system, which seems to plays a huge role in hair loss via edema and subsequent fibrosis of the galea

What research are u basing this off?

 

[Sweet Meat]

What research are u basing this off?

what do you mean?

it's common sense that water pressure helps edema, which is nothing but stagnant fluid....swimming is full body detumescence.

Swimming-induced pulmonary edema - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

here is a phenomena where swimming is so effective at moving blood and lymph that it actually causes edema of the lungs by forcing the fluids away from the extremities

not really my place to say, but i would put less faith in "research" and have more confidence in your own common sense, especially when 99% of the research around hair loss is (erronenously imo) based around the internal behavior of the hair, rather than the tissue's surrounding it

with the exception of auto immune diseases and some other things which cause the body to attack the hair directly, male pattern baldness has some fairly obvious characteristics - edema, fibrosis and calcification of the scalp, all of which result from the same thing - chronic tension of the galea, the only part of the entire upper body that has no muscle to alleviate it

it still baffles me that 100% of people to ever suffer mpb lose hair exclusively on the galea tissue, and still experts insist that it's a "hair" problem or a genetic issue, and not a tension problem. missing the forest for the trees, as it were.

ostensibly, it's obvious. any tension you experience in the body will be maximized in this region that has no way to handle it, in this case it's the galea - it's the furthest point from the kidneys and the apex of physical tension for anywhere else in the body (as your feet will ground much of the stress from the lower body) daily massages, exercise, diets that promote lymph drainage and keep your stress levels in order are the best solutions to hair and general health imo,

 

[Jack Earth]

what do you mean?

it's common sense that water pressure helps edema, which is nothing but stagnant fluid....swimming is full body detumescence.

Swimming-induced pulmonary edema - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

here is a phenomena where swimming is so effective at moving blood and lymph that it actually causes edema of the lungs by forcing the fluids away from the extremities

not really my place to say, but i would put less faith in "research" and have more confidence in your own common sense, especially when 99% of the research around hair loss is (erronenously imo) based around the internal behavior of the hair, rather than the tissue's surrounding it

with the exception of auto immune diseases and some other things which cause the body to attack the hair directly, male pattern baldness has some fairly obvious characteristics - edema, fibrosis and calcification of the scalp, all of which result from the same thing - chronic tension of the galea, the only part of the entire upper body that has no muscle to alleviate it

it still baffles me that 100% of people to ever suffer mpb lose hair exclusively on the galea tissue, and still experts insist that it's a "hair" problem or a genetic issue, and not a tension problem. missing the forest for the trees, as it were.

ostensibly, it's obvious. any tension you experience in the body will be maximized in this region that has no way to handle it, in this case it's the galea - it's the furthest point from the kidneys and the apex of physical tension for anywhere else in the body (as your feet will ground much of the stress from the lower body) daily massages, exercise, diets that promote lymph drainage and keep your stress levels in order are the best solutions to hair and general health imo,

You mean daily self massages? That can get pretty expensive otherwise

 

[Sweet Meat]

You mean daily self massages? That can get pretty expensive otherwise

i massage the back and sides of my head

when i go through a long stint of not looking after myself (lethargy, drug abuse, poor habits all around) i notice that i get painfully tight muscles around the back of my head (particularly the occipitalis). when i massage these until they don't hurt anymore (takes several days) my scalp is left loose and more than that, when i massage my scalp itself, it does not hurt, which suggests to me that it is considerably more oxygenated as a result

full body massage is probably great too, especially for dealing with tight muscles around the spine and neck, but in terms of self management i think massaging anything that feels tight or painful around your own head is the first issue to address

 

[Jonnie]

Here at 50:15
View: https://youtu.be/3fVx5yk73t4?t=3015
Georgi mentions how applying progesterone topically can help with fibrosis.
I ordered myself some Progesterone+DHEA (cortinon)… thinking of diluting it with something and rubbing it on my scalp at night.

Anyone any idea with what I could mix cortinon with to rub on my head? It’s already in SFA esthers but I want to be able to dilute it further and mix it with something that can be applied to larger parts of the scalp.

 

[GorillaHead]

Here at 50:15
View: https://youtu.be/3fVx5yk73t4?t=3015
Georgi mentions how applying progesterone topically can help with fibrosis.
I ordered myself some Progesterone+DHEA (cortinon)… thinking of diluting it with something and rubbing it on my scalp at night.

Anyone any idea with what I could mix cortinon with to rub on my head? It’s already in SFA esthers but I want to be able to dilute it further and mix it with something that can be applied to larger parts of the scalp.

Honestly man u are wasting ur time.

 

[Jonnie]

Honestly man u are wasting ur time.

Why is that?

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Honestly man u are wasting ur time.

Heh, aren't we all.

 

[FitnessMike]

I have a strange pattern of baldness as only my left temple is balding. You think its possible that its due to my shoulder impingment and tight neck? Why so?

this is what is happening to me too now while im still hypo, its also itching me, only left side, any idea why?

 

[GorillaHead]

Ischaemic scalp ulceration and hair loss

A 46-year-old woman presented to our outpatient clinic in June, 2013, with frequent collapse, ischaemic scalp ulcerations, and hair loss (figure). She had undergone carotid endarterectomy in 2005, after a small right hemispheric stroke, and had no other medical history apart from...

www.thelancet.com

Here a womens blood flow is actually compromised and as a result she loses hair and starts to get a level of necrosis.

now after the blood flow issue was fixed she got her hair back. The biggest miss in this study was was to see if there was hair miniaturization.
Still none the less very interesting