Why Does Finasteride Work For Some People?

Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
63
Hi all,

I don't post here often but I lurk a few times a year to see where everything is at with the latest hair-loss theories and treatments. Recently I have been pondering Finasteride and why it seems to work very well for some people. Does anyone know of a theory that would explain this?

From what I've been able to gather the prevailing thought behind the Peat/Roddy "alternate" explanation for hair-loss is that reduced thyroid function kicks of a negative compensatory hormone cascade that eventually results in increased hair-loss. I keep coming back to DHT though.

Recently, I've been watching a lot of YouTube channels that defend Finasteride quite vehemently and it has caused me to consider it as an option. I think it's literally the only hair-loss cure that I haven't at-least tried. Finasteride is so easy to get online now that I've been thinking about giving it a shot. My hair-line has hung in there pretty good over the years but I still have diffuse thinning up-top over most of my head. If Finasteride is truly poison, why does it work so well for some people and why do many continue to defend it?

Let's discuss! ;)
Also, if there's a thread about this already that I missed please post a link.

(I'm including this vid for reference)
The Misunderstood Role of DHT in Male Pattern Baldness


Thanks,
H9
 

Ableton

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2019
Messages
1,272
Fin is at best a decision between your manliness and your hair. At best. So the first question is if you are willing to go for that tradeoff, assuming you are not hopping on trt as well.
If you are not willing to compromise your masculinity, fin is off the table. Simple as. There is no one with zero sides. Only people with sides not strong enough to cluster them around a specific symptom.
 

hominidnumber9

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
63
Fin is at best a decision between your manliness and your hair. At best. So the first question is if you are willing to go for that tradeoff, assuming you are not hopping on trt as well.
If you are not willing to compromise your masculinity, fin is off the table. Simple as. There is no one with zero sides. Only people with sides not strong enough to cluster them around a specific symptom.

That's an interesting perspective.

If I were to try Finasteride, my body would still be making testosterone, it just wouldn't be converting to DHT as readily. What constitutes "manliness" is largely subjective but I do hear echos of what you're saying there. One would essentially be choosing a somewhat neotenized hormone profile for aesthetic purposes. That's more of a philosophical answer though.

I'm trying to figure out why, mechanistically, some people can eat garbage and lead horrible lifestyles, but still never loose any hair on the top of their head. I know at least a few people like this and they all have similar external physiological profiles and habits.
 

Ableton

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2019
Messages
1,272
That's an interesting perspective.

If I were to try Finasteride, my body would still be making testosterone, it just wouldn't be converting to DHT as readily. What constitutes "manliness" is largely subjective but I do hear echos of what you're saying there. One would essentially be choosing a somewhat neotenized hormone profile for aesthetic purposes. That's more of a philosophical answer though.

I'm trying to figure out why, mechanistically, some people can eat garbage and lead horrible lifestyles, but still never loose any hair on the top of their head. I know at least a few people like this and they all have similar external physiological profiles and habits.

asians are the highest t, lowest dht race.

i have 3 friends on fin for years. Their body compositions got less manly, their jawlines too. All this tissue is dht receptive. One reported flaccid d size decrease. Hair good though. They probably have more stuff going on they don’t talk about.

brain connection is scary too. So is newer some research indicating fin might alter your dna (if you want kids)

it’s incredibly potent stuff

what are those characteristics in your eyes?
 

Jem Oz

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
405
Don't do it. I was on Fin for 8 years. Took me about 3 years to get over PFS when I quit. You can talk yourself into anything, and I know the desire to keep your hair is strong. But seriously, just don't do it.
 

hominidnumber9

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
63
asians are the highest t, lowest dht race.

Whoa, really? That's funny because I hold Asian cultures in very high regard to the point where I sometimes jokingly refer to myself as an Asian-Supremacist :D. Anecdotally I've recently read online that finasteride is very popular in the east. Personally, I have primarily Mediterranean genetic ancestry and baldness runs in my family. I have uncles with good heads of hair but there's no telling what they might be taking.

i have 3 friends on fin for years. Their body compositions got less manly, their jawlines too. All this tissue is dht receptive. One reported flaccid d size decrease. Hair good though. They probably have more stuff going on they don’t talk about.

brain connection is scary too. So is newer some research indicating fin might alter your dna (if you want kids)

The potential mental side effects are what scare me the most. I have a demanding job and I need my brain to be functioning at optimum levels on the reg. Messing up my neurosteroids is the last thing I want to do. Not too big on the idea of having children right now but who knows how I'll feel in the future.

The dosage guidelines I've come across recently only recommend 3mg of fin a week. That seems so low "and you can always stop taking it". I have excluded DHT from my picture of hair-loss for the last few years and haven't really gotten significantly better, or worse. I like having head hair though. it's fun.

it’s incredibly potent stuff

what are those characteristics in your eyes?

When I think manly, I think Kratos from God of War, lol.
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Messages
1,797
its going to severely drop your DHT which is a powerful anti estrogen in the body. i think people that aren't effected all ready have a large amount of testosterone in the body and probably aren't running on stress as bad as people with PFS. people with pfs tend to be skinny, lower sterid hormones, etc. the risk you have is that if you take it, your body is going to have increased estrogen that may not be opposed properly. a lot of people defending it will stay on finasteride, and then they will take testosterone while they are on finasteride and the extra testosterone is what allows them to maintain the balance and keep estrogen in check. however, this is risky because the problem with finasteride is when you get off it the problems can get really bad.

if u believe in peat's principles, which is estrogen is highly dangerous and should be kept under control, finasteride is a very risky pill to take for this reason.
 

hominidnumber9

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
63
Don't do it. I was on Fin for 8 years. Took me about 3 years to get over PFS when I quit. You can talk yourself into anything, and I know the desire to keep your hair is strong. But seriously, just don't do it.

Have you tried or heard any good things about more "natural" topical solutions to block DHT at the scalp? Pumpkin seed oil has been making some noise recently and I happen to have some sitting around.
 

hominidnumber9

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
63
its going to severely drop your DHT which is a powerful anti estrogen in the body. i think people that aren't effected all ready have a large amount of testosterone in the body and probably aren't running on stress as bad as people with PFS. people with pfs tend to be skinny, lower sterid hormones, etc. the risk you have is that if you take it, your body is going to have increased estrogen that may not be opposed properly. a lot of people defending it will stay on finasteride, and then they will take testosterone while they are on finasteride and the extra testosterone is what allows them to maintain the balance and keep estrogen in check. however, this is risky because the problem with finasteride is when you get off it the problems can get really bad.

if u believe in peat's principles, which is estrogen is highly dangerous and should be kept under control, finasteride is a very risky pill to take for this reason.

I think this is the puzzle piece I'm not taking into consideration.
Thank you.
 

Jem Oz

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
405
When I quit Fin cold turkey (foolish given I was on it for 8 years), I had 2 stress-induced hair sheds in the ensuing few years, but it's been 8 years since I was on it and I still have a full head of hair. Might be luck, might be 'genes', or it might be that I discovered Ray Peat about 5 years ago and drastically changed my diet and lifestyle.

Funny thing is, now that I'm older, the thought of losing my hair doesn't bother me so much. However I know when you're in your 20s in particular, it can be a bleak thought.
 

hominidnumber9

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
63
When I quit Fin cold turkey (foolish given I was on it for 8 years), I had 2 stress-induced hair sheds in the ensuing few years, but it's been 8 years since I was on it and I still have a full head of hair. Might be luck, might be 'genes', or it might be that I discovered Ray Peat about 5 years ago and drastically changed my diet and lifestyle.

Funny thing is, now that I'm older, the thought of losing my hair doesn't bother me so much. However I know when you're in your 20s in particular, it can be a bleak thought.

You know, I will be 35 next year and I'm growing more ambivalent about my hair by the month. Hair growth is more of a puzzle or a side hobby for me (to some extent) . But I'll defiantly have to grow some facial hair at some point to balance out this mediterranean schnoz if I lose more of my hair. :artist:
 

Jem Oz

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
405
You know, I will be 35 next year and I'm growing more ambivalent about my hair by the month. Hair growth is more of a puzzle or a side hobby for me (to some extent) . But I'll defiantly have to grow some facial hair at some point to balance out this mediterranean schnoz if I lose more of my hair. :artist:
Haha well you've got humour on your side. Plus, they say if your crown is getting wispy, forget about it, hit the gym, update the wardrobe and, as you say, grow facial hair. You'll be laughing.
 

hominidnumber9

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
63
Thinking about this whole Estrogen factor I'm reminded of the fact that all of my drinking water comes from store bought PLASTIC jugs. I should switch back to filters for a minute.
 

mrchibbs

Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2017
Messages
2,470
Location
Atlantis
Finasteride is basically a frankenstein'ed cousin of progesterone, just like cyproterone acetate or spironolactone. All three of these drugs have accounts of hair regrowth, at all ages, and all three are synthesized from progesterone as the starting molecule. So to some extent they retain the characteristics of progesterone, but with added downsides from the re-engineering. Progesterone probably stops the effects of chronic estrogen, prolactin, aldosterone elevation etc. which over time improves the scalp conditions and leads to renewed hair growth. Spironolactone seems the safest of the bunch. Cyproterone acetate is extremely powerful but is not readily available, and finasteride, to me at least, is the most dangerous of all three.

Why? It messes up countless enzymes, in a way which often feels near permanent. And DHT, if you only read the actual literature, is essential. For brain health, orgasm function you name it. And it's not the culprit in hair loss.

The literature on 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors is becoming very sizeable.

As others have said, in the end we can convince ourselves of anything. So good luck to you.
 

SonOfEurope

Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2016
Messages
342
Agree @mrchibbs

Like OP I'm also of "Mediterranean" ancestry... If you consider North-East Spain, North Italy and West France as such... But only one great-grandfather of mine went fully bald and another one partially at the crown... Father just the entrance.

I was shedding badly two years ago at 26/27 but progesterone with low dose DHEA (and many lifestyle changes) have returned full coverage the voluminosity I had at 20 years old.

No feminization otherwise.... Actually the opposite.

Progesterone in a low dose, especially cycled, puts the interaction of DHT and E2 back in order, raises potassium in the cell, purifies excess copper in tissues and doesn't mess with Testosterone metabolism or atrociously run the 5Ar pathways, it in fact enhances 5ar but while calming the adrenals, adrenal androgens are terrible for hair.

Systemic deficiency of Vit. D among many is a factor, it's an enabler for many of Dopamine, Testosterone and Progesterone's rejuvenating actions when the system working coherently.
 

lvysaur

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
1,938
That's funny because I hold Asian cultures in very high regard to the point where I sometimes jokingly refer to myself as an Asian-Supremacist :D. Anecdotally I've recently read online that finasteride is very popular in the east. Personally, I have primarily Mediterranean genetic ancestry and baldness runs in my family.
I've noticed that the most aggressive balding is often on people with a "Med" or "Middle Eastern" headshape, regardless of their ancestry. Long dolichocephalic head with a narrow jawline and a very prominent occipital bun. Seems like when somebody goes completely bald in their 20s, they usually have this headshape (converse isn't true, many people with this shape end up keeping great hair).

When wide-headed people go bald it seems like it usually happens over many decades, and they hit total baldness in their 40s or later.
 

hominidnumber9

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
63
Agree @mrchibbs

Like OP I'm also of "Mediterranean" ancestry... If you consider North-East Spain, North Italy and West France as such... But only one great-grandfather of mine went fully bald and another one partially at the crown... Father just the entrance.

I was shedding badly two years ago at 26/27 but progesterone with low dose DHEA (and many lifestyle changes) have returned full coverage the voluminosity I had at 20 years old.

No feminization otherwise.... Actually the opposite.

Progesterone in a low dose, especially cycled, puts the interaction of DHT and E2 back in order, raises potassium in the cell, purifies excess copper in tissues and doesn't mess with Testosterone metabolism or atrociously run the 5Ar pathways, it in fact enhances 5ar but while calming the adrenals, adrenal androgens are terrible for hair.

Systemic deficiency of Vit. D among many is a factor, it's an enabler for many of Dopamine, Testosterone and Progesterone's rejuvenating actions when the system working coherently.

Great post!

This is the exact type of information I was trying to gather. I don’t think I ever fully understood the progesterone therapy angle. I have some topical that I purchased but I never really leveraged it correctly. It was just something I used intermittently when I wanted to calm things down a bit. I have more experience using Tyromix.

What dosage/cycling did you use? What dosage DHEA did you take? I’m interested in giving this a proper shot. I have a healthy lifestyle pretty well dialed in at this point in my life, I just feel like I’m still missing a piece somewhere. I get my temp taken all of time now because of C19 and it has been hovering around the mid 98s for the most part, so that’s a good sign. Historically my body temps have always been low.

Regarding vitamin D, I became a stickler about getting enough in early 2019 after catching a cold for the first time since like 2015. The only thing I had changed in my protocol is that I stopped supplementing vitamin D. Now I’m super careful to get enough.
 

hominidnumber9

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
63
I've noticed that the most aggressive balding is often on people with a "Med" or "Middle Eastern" headshape, regardless of their ancestry. Long dolichocephalic head with a narrow jawline and a very prominent occipital bun. Seems like when somebody goes completely bald in their 20s, they usually have this headshape (converse isn't true, many people with this shape end up keeping great hair).

BRUH, have you been spying on me?? :mad::D

This description reminds me of James Nestor's work in the book Breath which I don't want to get into here because it will completely derail this thread. I need to start a different topic for that book and discussions about breathing. The information in that book has been a game changer for me lately and I think it's a big reason why my body temps have gone up. C02/O2 balance can be finely tuned via breathwork. Raising C02 raises body temps. Over-breathing is harmful.
 
Last edited:

hominidnumber9

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
63
does it "work"?

i would question that

You can't deny some people have great results with it. The reports are out there if you look for them, independent youtubers, forum posts, etc.

Every once in awhile though, that stuff lights a dumpster fire from the very first dose.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
R Learned helplessness is actually backwards, helplessness is innate in mammals and does not have to be learned, helpfulness is what is actually learned Scientific Studies 1
M Does a lot of copper increase the need of vitamin C? Ask For Help or Advice 10
Michael Mohn Does serotonin in fruit raise serotonin blood levels? Cortisol, Serotonin, Histamine 5
K How does Androsterone compare to Anastrozole as an AI? Thyroid and Hormones 11
E Does anyone know if glycine supplement raise hemoglobin? Ask For Help or Advice 0
M Crazy question, but does putting the finger in the throat to induce gagging , not vommitting, increase stomach acid? Ask For Help or Advice 1
yerrag When Inflammation Does Not Get Confirmed By Certain Markers of Inflammation Cancer, Degenerative Diseases 47
M Does taurine increase stomach acid or not? Ask For Help or Advice 3
K Why does vitamin K2 mk4 make my skin dry? K 4
S Why does Ask For Help or Advice 2
A Does vitamin K supplementation deplete vitamin E? Vitamins 25
bzmazu Vaccine: Twenty countries suspend injections; does that make you “hesitant?” Viruses, Parasites, Fungus, Vaccines 104
P Why does l dopa make me pee so much? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 4
ecstatichamster Aspirin increases cancer and mortality — or does it? Scientific Studies 9
ScurveDream Should friendship be forced? How exactly does "friendship" or "having friends" work across different parameters? Ask For Help or Advice 13
M Does cooking vegetables destroy their vitamin C? Ask For Help or Advice 11
V Does it have to be orange juice? Diet 36
F Why does Sildenafil and other PDE5 inhibitors help my sleep? Male Issues 0
D Does B-50 cause anhedonia? Water-Soluble Vitamins 29
yerrag Does Anyone Have References that Validate the Use of Urine pH as a Proxy for Blood/ECF pH? Acidity vs. Alkalinity 65
A Penis Does Not Get Quite As Hard As It Used To Ask For Help or Advice 35
Hgreen56 Does milk or calcium raise gaba? Milk 3
Sam321 Does speed of magnesium spray absorption correlate current levels of magnesium in system? Ask For Help or Advice 0
M Does magnesium glycinate increase dht? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 8
ScurveDream Leanness and physiology -- how does it all work (more of a rant)? Metabolism 1
lvysaur Does chicken digest faster than beef? Meat 4
deliciousfruit Does liver from grain-fed animals contain vitamin A? Meat, Organ Meat, Gelatin, Seafood 2
J How does Ray Peat make coffee? Ask For Help or Advice 8
U What does eggs offer to be important part of the diet? Diet 9
T Does adrenaline damage the nervous system? Ask For Help or Advice 3
L Does a Moderna vaccinated person cause harm to a non vaccinated person? Vaccines 15
BearWithMe Does NDT supplement, T3/T4 or iodine raise PTH? Natural Dessicated Thyroid 4
ddjd why does saturated fat + carbs make me fat?? Ask For Help or Advice 67
Hgreen56 Does Gaba decrease metabolic rate? Diet 0
P Why Does Lowering Estrogen Slow My Hair Loss? (Interesting experience) Hair & Nails 4
Lokzo Does Lion's Mane Destroy Your Libido/Sex Drive?! Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 9
Frankdee20 Does dietary cholesterol intake increase it ? Cholesterol 8
ursidae >70 g of PUFA a day | Does diet even matter? Diet 72
TypicalJock Does food in plastic packaging effect the food? Ask For Help or Advice 1
tankasnowgod Milk, OJ, Cottage Cheese, Yogurt..... Does Temperature of these foods matter? Digestion 36
C Does Flowers Of Sulphur Only Benefit The Gut? Ask For Help or Advice 14
T Klonopin? How Does This Drug Do Nothing For Me? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 2
T Why Does Drinking Cause Suicidal Thoughts Now? Mental Issues 23
P Anti-Peat What Does Peat Have To Say About Tribal/indigenous Peoples Eating Pufa? Debate - Anti-Peat 22
jamies33 Does Believing In The Concept Of Karma Negate Belief In The Multiverse Theory? Meditation, Mindfullness, Religion, Spirituality 2
J Does Anyone Know Anything About Selleckchem Dot Com? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 0
H Does Tropical Weather Inhibit Metabolism? Metabolism 12
lvysaur Why Does Aspirin Lower My Bilirubin? Blood Work, Labs 2
F Does Anyone Have A Backup Of Tyw's Blog? Ask For Help or Advice 13
GelatinGoblin Does Sunlight Lower Thyroid And Steroids? Ask For Help or Advice 1

Similar threads

Top