Hair loss ThinkTank. Passionate and or Intellectual People

[GorillaHead]

Most people here don't believe there is a genetic component at all, which is just ridiculous.

There are simply way too many people with terrible lifestyles and great hair, for it all to come down to what you eat and how (where) you live. These people don't eat perfect food with optimal nutrient ratios, they are PUFA-laden, low thyroid, boozing pieces of ***t, overstressed and with poor sleep schedules, yet they still keep a NW1.

Why would hair be this ultra-sensitive organ which requires the stars to be perfectly aligned 24/7 in order to grow normally, lol, it just doesn't make any sense. It's only the people who have a HEREDITARY hormonal imbalance within the hair follicles, with a f'd up androgen cascade that results in too much androgenic activity (if blaming androgens is too un-Peat for you, just think of it as any other hormonal imbalance, i.e. excess cortisol, excess serotonin, etc.) and then that simply results in the hair ending up in a state that isn't conducive to growth, with proliferative genes being downregulated and apoptosis getting upregulated.

But since no one wants to inhibit androgens, we end up doing all this sort of mental gymnastics of trying to get around the problem and finding 'workarounds' in food and supplements which are limited in their efficacy because they don't address the ROOT CAUSE. That's why none of this ***t is particularly effective.

I beleive genetics has a huge part to play. Ultimately for those with susceptibility the goal is to identify the lifestyle factors that accelerate and slow down the progress.
This will ultimately not stop hairloss in fact if its in your genes as you age trying to fightback will almost be impossible WITHOUT some sort of topical augmentation.

 

[rr1]

Most people here don't believe there is a genetic component at all, which is just ridiculous.

There are simply way too many people with terrible lifestyles and great hair, for it all to come down to what you eat and how (where) you live. These people don't eat perfect food with optimal nutrient ratios, they are PUFA-laden, low thyroid, boozing pieces of ***t, overstressed and with poor sleep schedules, yet they still keep a NW1.

Why would hair be this ultra-sensitive organ which requires the stars to be perfectly aligned 24/7 in order to grow normally, lol, it just doesn't make any sense. It's only the people who have a HEREDITARY hormonal imbalance within the hair follicles, with a f'd up androgen cascade that results in too much androgenic activity (if blaming androgens is too un-Peat for you, just think of it as any other hormonal imbalance, i.e. excess cortisol, excess serotonin, etc.) and then that simply results in the hair ending up in a state that isn't conducive to growth, with proliferative genes being downregulated and apoptosis getting upregulated.

But since no one wants to inhibit androgens, we end up doing all this sort of mental gymnastics of trying to get around the problem and finding 'workarounds' in food and supplements which are limited in their efficacy because they don't address the ROOT CAUSE. That's why none of this ***t is particularly effective.

More and more guys are losing their hair these days, younger and younger. You think its because these guys all of a sudden are magically getting the gene that 'creates a hormonal imbalance within their hair follicles'?

Just as hypothyroidism, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, insulin resistance, all of these chronic diseases are on the rise, so is hair loss. Go and look at the statistics for yourself, they don't lie. People are simply under more stress these days, and living in an environment that is becoming increasingly more toxic every day, from PUFA in every food item, EMF's everywhere, mold, unescapable blue light, lack of sunshine, nutrient depleted foods, the list goes on. Not only environmental stress, but social stress, jobs that people hate, toxic boss/relationships, the need to conform to the impossible standards set by social media, I could list these all day. When your parents grew up in these conditions, and you living in these conditions, what do you think will happen. We are producing less energy, and dealing with more stress.

From my (limited) understanding, our body does not have enough energy to adapt to the stresses of modern life, your body then signals out that it needs energy which increases ACTH and cortisol to get past the temporary crisis. But in this case it's not a temporary crisis, but a permanent one. Your body eventually changes its physiology to fit into this environment, which is what causes this so called 'f'd up androgen cascade'. These adaptations will cause inflammation, and once there is inflammation in the scalp, it will lead to edema, then fibrosis, and finally calcification. This is why it is so hard to reverse baldness when people have a scalp full of calcification. If we can get into a better environment, we can turn off these bad adaptions, and the body can deal with the calcification. And of course there are things people can do to help this process.

 

[GorillaHead]

More and more guys are losing their hair these days, younger and younger. You think its because these guys all of a sudden are magically getting the gene that 'creates a hormonal imbalance within their hair follicles'?

Just as hypothyroidism, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, insulin resistance, all of these chronic diseases are on the rise, so is hair loss. Go and look at the statistics for yourself, they don't lie. People are simply under more stress these days, and living in an environment that is becoming increasingly more toxic every day, from PUFA in every food item, EMF's everywhere, mold, unescapable blue light, lack of sunshine, nutrient depleted foods, the list goes on. Not only environmental stress, but social stress, jobs that people hate, toxic boss/relationships, the need to conform to the impossible standards set by social media, I could list these all day. When your parents grew up in these conditions, and you living in these conditions, what do you think will happen. We are producing less energy, and dealing with more stress.

From my (limited) understanding, our body does not have enough energy to adapt to the stresses of modern life, your body then signals out that it needs energy which increases ACTH and cortisol to get past the temporary crisis. But in this case it's not a temporary crisis, but a permanent one. Your body eventually changes its physiology to fit into this environment, which is what causes this so called 'f'd up androgen cascade'. These adaptations will cause inflammation, and once there is inflammation in the scalp, it will lead to edema, then fibrosis, and finally calcification. This is why it is so hard to reverse baldness when people have a scalp full of calcification. If we can get into a better environment, we can turn off these bad adaptions, and the body can deal with the calcification. And of course there are things people can do to help this process.

These people were destined to lose their hair. All thats happening is the Hairloss has accelerated. The problem is men are losing their hair in their 20s when it shouldnt be happening until their 40s. Thats where lifestyle factors come into play. Hence why i posted that photo of the old twins.

hairloss is a visual symptom of a problem. Those who do not experience hairloss do not have this visual symptom. There are super unhealthy skinny people then there are those who are fat. Those being fat are getting a aesthetic sign there is an issue

 

[rr1]

These people were destined to lose their hair. All thats happening is the Hairloss has accelerated. The problem is men are losing their hair in their 20s when it shouldnt be happening until their 40s. Thats where lifestyle factors come into play. Hence why i posted that photo of the old twins.

hairloss is a visual symptom of a problem. Those who do not experience hairloss do not have this visual symptom. There are super unhealthy skinny people then there are those who are fat. Those being fat are getting a aesthetic sign there is an issue

Somehow I think you misunderstood everything that I said

 

[ChemHead]

Why would hair be this ultra-sensitive organ which requires the stars to be perfectly aligned 24/7 in order to grow normally, lol, it just doesn't make any sense.

It doesn't for people that aren't genetically susceptible to hair loss, but, for us it does require the stars to align. And even with those stars aligned, we'll still be working against the grain. Things like diet can help... a lot, but it doesn't mean diet is the cause or the cure. My guess is that it actually could be from diet... Just not your diet. It was the diet and habits of your ancestors going back generations. Think of those guys who eat ***t and drink and smoke and have perfect hair. Their habits have epigenetically altered them and when they procreate, a snapshot of their genome with that epigenetic filter will be passed on to their progeny. The progeny will be genetically inferior because of their parents' diet, lifestyle and environmental conditions. And if they continue the same type of habits as their parents, they will pass a snapshot of their genome in its most epigenetically inferior state onto their progeny and so on. Generations of poor dietary habits, lifestyle, and poor environmental conditions is likely what leads to a genome which malfunctions due to oxidative stresses that can't be properly managed and eventually manifests in the form of hair loss and other disorders.

So, is diet the cure? Maybe a few generations of better diet and lifestyle will prevent your progeny from losing hair, but it's not a cure for you. However, it is just one of the many ways you can give your body the best shot it can at preventing or reversing hair loss, but it's still going to be an uphill battle. You're going to have to work hard for something that many people work hard to screw up for themselves and, yet, still keep.

 

[GorillaHead]

It doesn't for people that aren't genetically susceptible to hair loss, but, for us it does require the stars to align. And even with those stars aligned, we'll still be working against the grain. Things like diet can help... a lot, but it doesn't mean diet is the cause or the cure. My guess is that it actually could be from diet... Just not your diet. It was the diet and habits of your ancestors going back generations. Think of those guys who eat ***t and drink and smoke and have perfect hair. Their habits have epigenetically altered them and when they procreate, a snapshot of their genome with that epigenetic filter will be passed on to their progeny. The progeny will be genetically inferior because of their parents' diet, lifestyle and environmental conditions. And if they continue the same type of habits as their parents, they will pass a snapshot of their genome in its most epigenetically inferior state onto their progeny and so on. Generations of poor dietary habits, lifestyle, and poor environmental conditions is likely what leads to a genome which malfunctions due to oxidative stresses that can't be properly managed and eventually manifests in the form of hair loss and other disorders.

So, is diet the cure? Maybe a few generations of better diet and lifestyle will prevent your progeny from losing hair, but it's not a cure for you. However, it is just one of the many ways you can give your body the best shot it can at preventing or reversing hair loss, but it's still going to be an uphill battle. You're going to have to work hard for something that many people work hard to screw up for themselves and, yet, still keep.

Very well said.

there are people who can eat like ***t and never get fat. Then are those who do. Its genetic susceptibility.

there are people who literally smoked for 40 years still to this day no lung cancer. Or those who get sun and get skin cancer and then those who are way less likely to get it.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

More and more guys are losing their hair these days, younger and younger. You think its because these guys all of a sudden are magically getting the gene that 'creates a hormonal imbalance within their hair follicles'?

I don't know. I am inclined to agree with you but it may be cognitive bias on my part, I'd have to look at the data.

One thing's for sure though, there were people losing hair 2000 years ago, and there are people keeping theirs even in 2021. It may be that the average starting age is lower and that more people are getting it, but there were always people more susceptible to it than others, regardless of the living conditions, and in my opinion that is the genetic part.

Just as hypothyroidism, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, insulin resistance, all of these chronic diseases are on the rise, so is hair loss. Go and look at the statistics for yourself, they don't lie. People are simply under more stress these days, and living in an environment that is becoming increasingly more toxic every day, from PUFA in every food item, EMF's everywhere, mold, unescapable blue light, lack of sunshine, nutrient depleted foods, the list goes on. Not only environmental stress, but social stress, jobs that people hate, toxic boss/relationships, the need to conform to the impossible standards set by social media, I could list these all day. When your parents grew up in these conditions, and you living in these conditions, what do you think will happen. We are producing less energy, and dealing with more stress.

While that all may be true, there are obviously still people who, despite all of these stresses and insults get to keep a perfect head of hair well into old age. By your reasoning these people are then simply a more resistant and versatile organism than the rest of us, since they can get away with utterly terrible lifestyle choices and keep their hair. They're doing everything wrong, yet we can do everything "perfect" and still not even stop our hair loss. So it seems to me that the biggest factor here is something that we have zero control over.

If people with hair loss are that sensitive, they can't handle living in modern society, and if they want to keep their hair they should move to the Andes and live 500 years backwards in time. All that screams inferior organism to me. Historically, humans have always been about adaptation, the best succeed and others fail. Maybe it's no coincidence that balding partners are discriminated against.

 

[GorillaHead]

It doesn't for people that aren't genetically susceptible to hair loss, but, for us it does require the stars to align. And even with those stars aligned, we'll still be working against the grain. Things like diet can help... a lot, but it doesn't mean diet is the cause or the cure. My guess is that it actually could be from diet... Just not your diet. It was the diet and habits of your ancestors going back generations. Think of those guys who eat ***t and drink and smoke and have perfect hair. Their habits have epigenetically altered them and when they procreate, a snapshot of their genome with that epigenetic filter will be passed on to their progeny. The progeny will be genetically inferior because of their parents' diet, lifestyle and environmental conditions. And if they continue the same type of habits as their parents, they will pass a snapshot of their genome in its most epigenetically inferior state onto their progeny and so on. Generations of poor dietary habits, lifestyle, and poor environmental conditions is likely what leads to a genome which malfunctions due to oxidative stresses that can't be properly managed and eventually manifests in the form of hair loss and other disorders.

So, is diet the cure? Maybe a few generations of better diet and lifestyle will prevent your progeny from losing hair, but it's not a cure for you. However, it is just one of the many ways you can give your body the best shot it can at preventing or reversing hair loss, but it's still going to be an uphill battle. You're going to have to work hard for something that many people work hard to screw up for themselves and, yet, still keep.

I don't know. I am inclined to agree with you but it may be cognitive bias on my part, I'd have to look at the data.

One thing's for sure though, there were people losing hair 2000 years ago, and there are people keeping theirs even in 2021. It may be that the average starting age is lower and that more people are getting it, but there were always people more susceptible to it than others, regardless of the living conditions, and in my opinion that is the genetic part.



While that all may be true, there are obviously still people who, despite all of these stresses and insults get to keep a perfect head of hair well into old age. By your reasoning these people are then simply a more resistant and versatile organism than the rest of us, since they can get away with utterly terrible lifestyle choices and keep their hair. They're doing everything wrong, yet we can do everything "perfect" and still not even stop our hair loss. So it seems to me that the biggest factor here is something that we have zero control over.

If people with hair loss are that sensitive, they can't handle living in modern society, and if they want to keep their hair they should move to the Andes and live 500 years backwards in time. All that screams inferior organism to me. Historically, humans have always been about adaptation, the best succeed and others fail. Maybe it's no coincidence that balding partners are discriminated against.

Hey @ChemHead remember when i spoke about skull volume and it was thickening. Check this out “Deficiency of retinol affects bone morphology by increasing bone thickness.”

Vitamin A influence on calcium metabolism and calcification - PubMed

Vitamin A deficiency has been shown to affect vision, reproduction, cellular differentiation, and maintenance of epithelial and skeletal tissues. Different vitamin A compounds, i.e., retinol and retinoic acid, vary in their ability to fulfill these biologic functions. Aside from vision, the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Do any of you beleive that topical retinoic acid actually regrows hair that one really old study said it did in men and women but especially women like full temple regrowth?

And in mice it showed veins expanded and got larger.

 

[Mufasa]

Most people here don't believe there is a genetic component at all, which is just ridiculous.

There are simply way too many people with terrible lifestyles and great hair, for it all to come down to what you eat and how (where) you live. These people don't eat perfect food with optimal nutrient ratios, they are PUFA-laden, low thyroid, boozing pieces of ***t, overstressed and with poor sleep schedules, yet they still keep a NW1.

Why would hair be this ultra-sensitive organ which requires the stars to be perfectly aligned 24/7 in order to grow normally, lol, it just doesn't make any sense. It's only the people who have a HEREDITARY hormonal imbalance within the hair follicles, with a f'd up androgen cascade that results in too much androgenic activity (if blaming androgens is too un-Peat for you, just think of it as any other hormonal imbalance, i.e. excess cortisol, excess serotonin, etc.) and then that simply results in the hair ending up in a state that isn't conducive to growth, with proliferative genes being downregulated and apoptosis getting upregulated.

But since no one wants to inhibit androgens, we end up doing all this sort of mental gymnastics of trying to get around the problem and finding 'workarounds' in food and supplements which are limited in their efficacy because they don't address the ROOT CAUSE. That's why none of this ***t is particularly effective.

What if your current lifestyle does not determine it, but the lifestyle of your parents, or your grandparents? Or the lifestyle of the first 10 years of your existence?

 

[GorillaHead]

Reversing wrinkled skin and hair loss in mice by restoring mitochondrial function - Cell Death & Disease

Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) depletion is involved in mtDNA depletion syndromes, mitochondrial diseases, aging and aging-associated chronic diseases, and other human pathologies. To evaluate the consequences of depletion of mtDNA in the whole animal, we created an inducible mtDNA-depleter mouse...

www.nature.com

Mitochondria plays a bigger role in skin and hair compared to other organs. If they fail. The hair and skin fail.

If we look at this study

Transplants from balding and hairy androgenetic alopecia scalp regrow hair comparably well on immunodeficient mice - PubMed

Human hair follicles were grafted onto 2 strains of immunodeficient mice to compare the regeneration potential of vellus (miniaturized, balding) and terminal (hairy, nonbalding) follicles from males and a female exhibiting pattern baldness. Each mouse had transplants of both types of follicles...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

it tells us the issue does not have anything to do with the our hair as an organ. Something about their environment is preventing the growth.
I will say that even tho there are studies that showed blood flow was reduced in early androgenic alopecia scalp. I cant say its a cause. In fact i cant even say minoxidil works because of increased blood flow.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

What if your current lifestyle does not determine it, but the lifestyle of your parents, or your grandparents? Or the lifestyle of the first 10 years of your existence?

Then that is even less within your realm of control. It is functionally no different than being doomed by 'genetics'.

it tells us the issue does not have anything to do with the our hair as an organ. Something about their environment is preventing the growth

"The MIcE siMPLY hAvE LeSS ANDroGEnS ThAN HuMAns" - the argument I was faced with on HLT

Even though it's consensus that castration and most anti-androgens typically don't regrow a lot of hair, but the doublethink escapes them.

 

[GorillaHead]

Then that is even less within your realm of control. It is functionally no different than being doomed by 'genetics'.



"The MIcE siMPLY hAvE LeSS ANDroGEnS ThAN HuMAns" - the argument I was faced with on HLT

Even though it's consensus that castration and most anti-androgens typically don't regrow a lot of hair, but the doublethink escapes them.

do u think blood flow being cut off is a cause?

i always said it cant be otherwise every potent vasodilator should regrow hair but only one is known to do it.

 

[GenericName86]

Reversing wrinkled skin and hair loss in mice by restoring mitochondrial function - Cell Death & Disease

Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) depletion is involved in mtDNA depletion syndromes, mitochondrial diseases, aging and aging-associated chronic diseases, and other human pathologies. To evaluate the consequences of depletion of mtDNA in the whole animal, we created an inducible mtDNA-depleter mouse...

www.nature.com

Mitochondria plays a bigger role in skin and hair compared to other organs. If they fail. The hair and skin fail.

If we look at this study

Transplants from balding and hairy androgenetic alopecia scalp regrow hair comparably well on immunodeficient mice - PubMed

Human hair follicles were grafted onto 2 strains of immunodeficient mice to compare the regeneration potential of vellus (miniaturized, balding) and terminal (hairy, nonbalding) follicles from males and a female exhibiting pattern baldness. Each mouse had transplants of both types of follicles...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

it tells us the issue does not have anything to do with the our hair as an organ. Something about their environment is preventing the growth

Nicotinamide Riboside did amazing things for my hair and scalp, as I've said it's been one of the few things that when taken I get quite a quick reaction in regards to my scalp/hair feeling great. That other study is interesting too with the transplanted hair regrowth, thanks for posting it.

"The MIcE siMPLY hAvE LeSS ANDroGEnS ThAN HuMAns" - the argument I was faced with on HLT

Even though it's consensus that castration and most anti-androgens typically don't regrow a lot of hair, but the doublethink escapes them.

Man I haven't been on HLT in so long lol. Last straw for me was when I was making a post about how concerned I was that Fin was making my scalp feel inflamed and causing more hair loss and they just said I was "shedding" and to ride it out.

 

[Mufasa]

Then that is even less within your realm of control. It is functionally no different than being doomed by 'genetics'.



"The MIcE siMPLY hAvE LeSS ANDroGEnS ThAN HuMAns" - the argument I was faced with on HLT

Even though it's consensus that castration and most anti-androgens typically don't regrow a lot of hair, but the doublethink escapes them.

It is completely different. With genetic reasoning, you can say, given two people with the same lifestyle, one loses hair and the other not, so it must be genes.

With the model of Ray Peat that it is an accumulation of adaptive changes that can be transgenerational, you can not make that conclusion. And your other conclusion that it is out of your control if it would be transgenerational, is also wrong, as you can reverse adaptive changes to some extend. You can heal the traumas you got from your parents.

Maybe start with reading some Ray Peat?

 

[rr1]

Then that is even less within your realm of control. It is functionally no different than being doomed by 'genetics'.

I don't believe that it isn't within your realm of control.

It's pretty obvious that those who inherit maladaptation's from their parents, which is what you agree could be happening, have the possibility to reverse these maladaptation's through positive changes, limiting stress, and doing all of the right things. This is completely different to what is argued that people have a gene that will make their hair fall out, and there is nothing that they can do about it.

I am quite curious, and I'm sorry to use you as an example, but as someone who has been here since 2012, you must have a bit of an idea of what you 'should' be doing. In regards to diet, lifestyle, thyroid health, weight training, limiting blue light, sunlight, red-light, massages, etc etc, would you say that you are a perfect example, and are confident that you are and have been doing exactly what you think you should be doing? Pulse in the 85-95bpm range, waking temp 36.6c, sense of wellbeing and euphoria, all of the signs of a healthy high metabolism? Stress free life, perfect digestions - I think you get the point. I am very curious about getting to know your case better.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

I don't believe that it isn't within your realm of control.

It's pretty obvious that those who inherit maladaptation's from their parents, which is what you agree could be happening, have the possibility to reverse these maladaptation's through positive changes, limiting stress, and doing all of the right things. This is completely different to what is argued that people have a gene that will make their hair fall out, and there is nothing that they can do about it.

I am quite curious, and I'm sorry to use you as an example, but as someone who has been here since 2012, you must have a bit of an idea of what you 'should' be doing. In regards to diet, lifestyle, thyroid health, weight training, limiting blue light, sunlight, red-light, massages, etc etc, would you say that you are a perfect example, and are confident that you are and have been doing exactly what you think you should be doing? Pulse in the 85-95bpm range, waking temp 36.6c, sense of wellbeing and euphoria, all of the signs of a healthy high metabolism? Stress free life, perfect digestions - I think you get the point. I am very curious about getting to know your case better.

I started here when I was 20 years old, and damaged by low calorie dieting. My thyroid was screwed and I had just started losing hair. For about 2 years I was very strict. Raw dairy, orange juice, carrot salad, liver, FLUX on my computer screen, nibbling on T3, supplements, this and that. The only time I felt euphoric was when I was on 3 grains of thyroid.

The whole time I did not see any permanent improvements in any aspect - when I'd get off the thyroid I'd feel tired and lifeless again. My hair kept falling out the whole time. I first shaved my head at 22, and at 23 I got on Finasteride because it had gotten really bad. Since I realised that nothing I was doing was helping, and the strict dietary & supplement approach and avoiding everything bad is a STRESS in itself, I got completely jaded with everything and just fallen out with the whole approach and ate intuitively and tried to relax.

Finasteride ****88 me, I have permanent side effects 5 years later, and my hair is only now returning to be as bad as it was back then (I'm 29 at the moment). And this time, there is nothing to take. I can't tolerate anti-androgens, and other things don't work for me.

I take issue with this notion that I have to be this super-human, who has to have every little aspect of his life be perfectly on point, just to have HAIR growing on the top of my head, which people who don't do any of the above and go about their life not giving a ****, take for granted. It just doesn't seem reasonable, or realistic.

 

[Mufasa]

I started here when I was 20 years old, and damaged by low calorie dieting. My thyroid was screwed and I had just started losing hair. For about 2 years I was very strict. Raw dairy, orange juice, carrot salad, liver, FLUX on my computer screen, nibbling on T3, supplements, this and that. The only time I felt euphoric was when I was on 3 grains of thyroid.

The whole time I did not see any permanent improvements in any aspect - when I'd get off the thyroid I'd feel tired and lifeless again. My hair kept falling out the whole time. I first shaved my head at 22, and at 23 I got on Finasteride because it had gotten really bad. Since I realised that nothing I was doing was helping, and the strict dietary & supplement approach and avoiding everything bad is a STRESS in itself, I got completely jaded with everything and just fallen out with the whole approach and ate intuitively and tried to relax.

Finasteride ****88 me, I have permanent side effects 5 years later, and my hair is only now returning to be as bad as it was back then (I'm 29 at the moment). And this time, there is nothing to take. I can't tolerate anti-androgens, and other things don't work for me.

I take issue with this notion that I have to be this super-human, who has to have every little aspect of his life be perfectly on point, just to have HAIR growing on the top of my head, which people who don't do any of the above and go about their life not giving a ****, take for granted. It just doesn't seem reasonable, or realistic.

What were your temps and pulse during those different periods?

 

[GorillaHead]

Nicotinamide Riboside did amazing things for my hair and scalp, as I've said it's been one of the few things that when taken I get quite a quick reaction in regards to my scalp/hair feeling great. That other study is interesting too with the transplanted hair regrowth, thanks for posting it.


Man I haven't been on HLT in so long lol. Last straw for me was when I was making a post about how concerned I was that Fin was making my scalp feel inflamed and causing more hair loss and they just said I was "shedding" and to ride it out.

They will descredit u so quick. One thing i realized about the human body is one should never discredit a claim even if it sounds absolutely impossible. Science is not absolute. Everyone is different.
For example All the empirical data in the world could show vaccines dont cause autism and by my perception they do not. But for a small .001%. For reasons unknown vaccines might cause autism for them

 

[rr1]

I started here when I was 20 years old, and damaged by low calorie dieting. My thyroid was screwed and I had just started losing hair. For about 2 years I was very strict. Raw dairy, orange juice, carrot salad, liver, FLUX on my computer screen, nibbling on T3, supplements, this and that. The only time I felt euphoric was when I was on 3 grains of thyroid.

The whole time I did not see any permanent improvements in any aspect - when I'd get off the thyroid I'd feel tired and lifeless again. My hair kept falling out the whole time. I first shaved my head at 22, and at 23 I got on Finasteride because it had gotten really bad. Since I realised that nothing I was doing was helping, and the strict dietary & supplement approach and avoiding everything bad is a STRESS in itself, I got completely jaded with everything and just fallen out with the whole approach and ate intuitively and tried to relax.

Finasteride ****88 me, I have permanent side effects 5 years later, and my hair is only now returning to be as bad as it was back then (I'm 29 at the moment). And this time, there is nothing to take. I can't tolerate anti-androgens, and other things don't work for me.

I take issue with this notion that I have to be this super-human, who has to have every little aspect of his life be perfectly on point, just to have HAIR growing on the top of my head, which people who don't do any of the above and go about their life not giving a ****, take for granted. It just doesn't seem reasonable, or realistic.

Low calorie dieting seems to be the trigger of a stress cascade and baldness for the majority of the people having problems with their hair. Of course it's unfair that some people can effortlessly maintain their hair, and we do have to become a 'super-human', but I don't think it's something to get jaded about. The lifestyles of these people, who you may have one time envied for their hair, will catch up to them in some way or another. Ideally we should be glad that we had a wake up call, are able to take our health into our own hands, know that we are doing the right things diet and lifestyle-wise, and that this will lead to a healthier next generation. For me its a gratifying feeling, and gives me immense hope for the future.

Back to your post, when you say you have to have every little aspect of your life be perfectly on point, I don't think this is as super-human-esque as you make out. All it takes is small changes, for example, less time behind the computer and more time in the sunshine moving your body (using flux is nice, but you're still behind a computer screen.) These changes should improve your quality of life, not make it worse. Also I wouldn't think that anyone should be able to tolerate anti-androgens. On the supplement side of things, some of the anti-stress substances such as progesterone, DHEA, T/DHT, vitamin D, T3, pregnenolone, aspirin, niacinamide, cyproheptadine may be better alternatives. Then you have things such as calcium carbonate, potassium, b vitamins, magnesium, taurine, which all have positive testimonials for helping people with their hair.

It's interesting that you stopped the 3 grains of thyroid when you were feeling well, is there a specific reason for this? I wonder had you have given your body some more time on thyroid, incorporated massaging, tried some micro needling/red light/lltt/topicals, if you would have had any luck. Anyway, it's important to remember that it's not just hair on the top of our head that is the goal, but to be able to live a healthy and fulfilling life and doing our best to avoid the degenerative diseases and sickness that so many face. The road can get bumpy along the way, and it may seem like an uphill battle at times, but it's not impossible, and always worth fighting for.

 

[GorillaHead]

not saying low calorie diets dont cause hairloss but in those who have some level of immunity damn. I wonder if being so deprived of nutrients the body cant manufacture steroids anymore.

manufacturing dht itself isnt that energy intensive?