Weight Gain On Low, Low Pufa

[irina tone]

Thanks, everyone, for all the advice.
@Terma @Liubo @Travis

It's true that experimentation is key and the all-or-nothing approach can be counterproductive.

I will keep experimenting to get this right and have some patience.

 

[shepherdgirl]

I was just reading Dr. Peat's article on coconut oil and heard one paragraph with new ears. He mentions studies of animals on diets that varied amounts and types of fats:

At the end of their lives, the animals' obesity increased directly in proportion to the ratio of unsaturated oil to coconut oil in their diet, and was not related to the total amount of fat they had consumed.

Many fruits and veggies and other foods with negligible fat have some pufa (cocoa for ex.). They may have way more pufa than sat fat, but they have such a small amount of fat that this fact goes unnoticed. Despite eating practically no fat, the unsat. fat/sat. fat ratio could actually be terrible because of these very low fat foods with terrible ratios! Could this be a reason for weight gain despite super low pufa? I don't know, but i certainly hope so, as it is an easy fix - hydrogenated co stat!

 

[shepherdgirl]

just calculated a few unsaturated fat/saturated fat ratios using usda food database:
carrots raw: 3.11
oranges: 1.67
russet potato, flesh and skin, raw: 1.65

 

[Luann]

That's good thinking shepherdgirl. Unfortunately for me the fat in skim milk is almost entirely saturated but still caused me to gain weight. But I wonder if that may help some of the other people reading this thread.

 

[shepherdgirl]

I've been eating very low pufa since February, like 1g a day,

Hi @Liubo - all I am saying is, if someone eats a gram of pufa per day it would require 50g of saturated fat to bring the pufa/sat fat ratio to 2%, which iirc is the pufa percentage in co and possibly in dairy (percentage may be different for low fat dairy). I am not saying that 2% is the goal - i don't know what the ideal ratio would be. (Also, Dr. Peat mentioned the ratio of unsaturated fat to co, not saturated fat.) Also- i looked up both skim milk and fat free milk in the usda database, and they list total lipids as zero. They only break lipids out by saturated fat and trans fat, which are both listed as 0.000. (I do not really trust their numbers - i mean, how precise is 0 total lipids? It could be rounded to zero, whereas the saturated fat is measured precisely. Pufa content is not shown, but if total fat was less then .5g it could have been rounded to zero.) But if it is true that there is zero fat in skim milk then it will not affect pufa/sat fat ratio. So there will not be any sat fat in skim milk to help lower the ratio.
Fifty grams of sat fat seems like kind of a lot, especially since i am trying to lose my belly fat, but I am wondering if this ratio is more important than total fat for body fat loss.

 

[shepherdgirl]

2%, which iirc is the pufa percentage in co

CORRECTION - i did not recall correctly- the ratio of pufa to sat fat in co is about 4.2%. So for each gram of pufa eaten, about 24 grams of sat fat would bring the ratio to 4.2%.

 

[shepherdgirl]

Thought this thread could be helpful:
For Fat Loss: Eat No Fat Or Eat Some Coconut Oil?

 

[fradon]

b vitamins

also milk is high in estrogens which makes you gain weight. Candy no minerals and they deplete mag and cal...and b vitamins.

sugar spikes insulin and raises cortisol so then the next time you eat bam right into fat storage. you need more protein. there is glycemic threshold if you go too high it will stop fat burning and you go into fuel storage and you gain weight.

even reading the ray peat areticle about starches and sugar...he says sweet fruit is best...not so mcu on candy because who knows where its made or if it has other chemicals in it.

Ray Peat, PhD – Concerns with Starches – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

 

[sladerunner69]

I said what I said based on personal experience. 650mg of aspirin and about 200-300mg of niacinamide per day, I lose about 1 lb or less on my diet at 2500kcals. When I discontinue them I lose at least 1.5lbs per week, but typically 2-3lbs. Not trying to argue, just my personal experience. Im very very strict, and calculated with my food, supplements, and lifestyle. Those were the only changing variables. I use both substances regularly, except when Im cutting.

What about caffiene? Have you tried that to help increase fatloss? Also I think aspirin maybe without the niacinimide would help boost the metabolic rate and burn more fat off...

 

[tca300]

What about caffiene? Have you tried that to help increase fatloss? Also I think aspirin maybe without the niacinimide would help boost the metabolic rate and burn more fat off...

Yes! Caffeine is helful. I dont like using aspirin and niacinamide during weight loss, slows my weight loss down.

 

[Lee Simeon]

Yes! Caffeine is helful. I dont like using aspirin and niacinamide during weight loss, slows my weight loss down.

Regardless of the weight effects of Niacinamide and Aspirin, what other effects have you noticed from supplementing with them?

 

[schultz]

Have you tried just consuming aspirin when cutting? since Ray suggests aspirin should help with fat loss and aspirin has the same capabilities/mechanisms like DNP so it should for sure help with fat loss.

Yes this is true. @haidut had a thread on this a while back, but I ran across a study from the 50's on this as well. Haidut had some recommendations on dosing the aspirin, which is important because if you go too high, well you can die, but even at the high dose where you don't die you can hyperventilate and CO2 production can't keep up, presumably from lack of energy IE. glucose, and the body resorts to using protein. Catabolism insues. The ECA stack with this kind of aspirin dose would be intense. Ain't no 325mg, that's for sure...

[Please don't abuse aspirin based of this post people!]

Below is from the paper.

"A considerable rise in both oxygen consumption and carbon dioxide production followed injection of sodium salicylate. The animal was quiet and at rest during the investigation, so that doubling of the rate of oxygen consumption immediately after injection of salicylate suggests that the drug is a powerful metabolic stimulant..."

"Indeed, salicylate has been found to be just as effective a metabolic stimulant as 2:4-dinitrophenol and the striking physiochemical property which they share, namely, the formation of a chelate ring between the hydroxy and carboxyl group in the one and the hydroxy and nitro group in the other, may be responsible for their common action."

"It is concluded that salicylate is a primary metabolic stimulant, and the suggestion is put forward that pulmonary ventilation increases to meet a peripheral demand for more oxygen. As this is associated with a relative fall in carbon dioxide production, in keeping with our finding of increased protein katabolism, a respiratory alkalosis results. It is the increased ventilation and the failure of carbon dioxide production to keep up with oxygen consumption which leads to a respiratory alkalosis of metabolic origin."

"Salicylate has been found to be a powerful metabolic stimulant in rabbits comparable in its general effects with 2:4-dinitrophenol and possessing as many qualifications to be classed with the metabolic stimulants as with the analgesic antipyretics. A close correlation exists between oxygen consumption and the serum salicylate level. At very high salicylate levels the metabolic stimulation is so intense that animals die in hyperthermia."

"Carbon dioxide production increases with oxygen consumption but tends to lag slightly behind the oxygen consumption. This relative fall in carbon dioxide production and the increased pulmonary ventilation to meet the greater oxygen requirement could lead in time to a respiratory alkalosis."

What about caffiene? Have you tried that to help increase fatloss? Also I think aspirin maybe without the niacinimide would help boost the metabolic rate and burn more fat off...

I think if the "sweet spot" dosage was found then it would be helpful. Not too low, not too high. I call it the Goldilocks zone.... .... (Okay I made that last part up)

 

[tca300]

Regardless of the weight effects of Niacinamide and Aspirin, what other effects have you noticed from supplementing with them?

I notice nothing from them within the last year or so, but before they were very helpful with sleep, energy, warmth, and estrogen.

 

[Travis]

.... (Okay I made that last part up)

Actually, the Goldilock's Zone is a mathematically-defined concept.
(click to embiggen)
(lol, not really. But it should be...)

 

[sladerunner69]

Actually, the Goldilock's Zone is a mathematically-defined concept.
View attachment 6828 (click to embiggen)
(lol, not really. But it should be...)

How would one dose x=-1 aspirin? By consuming a small stack of pringles?

I like the exponential line though, very interesting. What does the y axis represent?

 

[schultz]

Actually, the Goldilock's Zone is a mathematically-defined concept.
View attachment 6828 (click to embiggen)
(lol, not really. But it should be...)

lol!

It is kind of a catchy name.

 

[Travis]

Great name to a great concept.

. . ..(do you mind if I start using it?)

―But I just did a search and found that your not alone. Others have also used this entertaining and thoughtful analogy in the past:

Goldilocks principle - Wikipedia​

In cognitive science and developmental psychology, the Goldilocks effect or principle refers to an infant's preference to attend to events which are neither too simple nor too complex according to their current representation of the world.

In astrobiology, the Goldilocks zone refers to the habitable zone around a star.

In economics, a Goldilocks economy sustains moderate economic growth and low inflation, which allows a market-friendly monetary policy.​

But nothing mentioned about the middle section of the y=x³ curve.

. . ..(I think I might edit-in some bull**** about that on Wikipedia right now.)

 

[cyclops]

On 2500kcals skim milk, low fat high sugar fruits, lots of salt, gelatin, coffee, liver, ~ 20 or less grams of fat from stated foods and hydrogenated coconut oil, I lose between 2-3 lbs per week, its ridiculous. If your taking aspirin, niacinamide, and or glycine, those will affect fat loss etc, negatively, in my experience.
But I dont cheat, nor am I dishonest about what Im really eating, so maybe thats a factor too. ( not accusing anyone of lying, just saying )

Wonder why gelatin would help you lose body fat, but glycine hurts it.

 

[Luann]

Glycine causes me water retention, at a medium dose. I think the gelatin is just a much smaller dose of glycine that you can't really get a water weight issue with it. You'd have to take like tablespoons of gelatin to get a tsp of glycine out of it. Or maybe it is the other amino acids in gelatin that don't cause water weight.

 

[Luann]

So I guess I should update this thread.....

I lost the six or seven pounds I wanted to, & I'm actually looking to gain weight again.
The grass is always greener on the other side.
Anyway what probably helped me lose weight was switching from dry milk as a calorie source to liquid milk and consuming less of it altogether. I eat less gelatin now as well. The milk powder and gelatin were causing me serious headaches and I believe that was an endotoxin issue. Now, I have less headaches (still working on identifying other sources though) and lost the water weight that was probably making me weigh more.

Also I've kept peating since this thread and probably have less body PUFA. For sure my metabolism is higher, because A. now I can't seem to gain weight and B. I suffer much more now if i under-eat.

Also I wanna thank @Jon - certainly not the only one who helped me in this thread - but he informed me about complications with fructose and the importance of eating ENOUGH CALORIES.

TLDR less milk and less endotoxin helped me shed a few. thanks all