How Much Water Weight/glycogen Can You Store?

[kateb]

I was a 119 pound female 5'3 age 36 with two young children still nursing 3 year old (yes prolactin I know) who was eating moderate carbs before more peat style eating and began eating more carbs in the form of orange juice and sugar mostly and adding collagen and gelatin (great lakes) to this. I did not add much dairy as I avoid it for ethical reasons but did add some to coffee to avoid almond milk until I got some coconut milk. Main calorie sources: orange juice, sugar, shrimp, beef, gummy bears, 1 teaspoon coconut oil or less daily. I have eaten to satiety not to overly full. I find carbohydrates the most satiating. Before this I was mostly eating chicken breast, sugar candy, some vegetables and intermittent fasting. My 119 weight was with some carbohydrate stores as I could reduce it to 117 by reducing carbohydrates. To lose weight I usually need to eat 1500 calories or less or at least for it to be not painfully slow. I have been eating around 2000 calories and maintaining for a few months.I strength train and have been doing so for years about 5 days a week and do a couple recreational sports 1-2 times a week but not to excess and not to breathing heavily. I have a solid amount of muscle so look leaner than my weight (people usually think I weigh 110) but still some belly fat and upper thigh fat though have some minor abdominal definition. I am not sedentary and get outside.

I got my temp up quickly from 97.5-98 to 98.3-98.6 in a few days and pulse from 70 to 80+ from eating more but I also now weigh 125. It isn't intestinal contents as I am eating little solid food and no fiber. It has only been 1 week. I added aspirin, extra caffeine and vitamin e two days ago and went from 123 to 125 in two days. I am an inch thicker in waist, hips and upper thigh, from 25, 32, 21 to 26, 33, 22. My face lost definition too. I have not added much salt if any as I started retaining water so quickly with additional carbohydrates. I don't think I am eating more than 2200-2500 calories. Could this all be water or likely fat too? I don't feel comfortable, I went from feeling relatively lean to chubby. Can glycogen/water add inches like that? On the positive side my leg, glute and arm muscles look fuller but then so does my belly and I'd rather have a smaller belly and less full muscles as I live in Florida by beach....

I am thinking of returning to intermittent fasting with thyroid supportive nutrition when eating but here is my question: is this likely glycogen stores in liver and muscle and if so if I am eating less at what point will I affect t4 to t3 conversion due to reduced glycogen from reduced food? I guess if it is glycogen/water this is my "real" weight and I have a lot more fat to loose but I am unsure how to go about it. I was 135 a year ago and got down to 119 which is a huge change at my height and getting up to 125 is upsetting to me. I thought maybe I have thyroid issues with prolactin from breast feeding and cold feet and reduced cold tolerance and felt face was looking puffy (usually have strong facial definition) but seems odd since I have a pretty strong appetite and got my temp and pulse up so quickly. Any ideas? Allergy to something? So puffy so fast seems odd at my size when I wasn't very low carb before.

 

[kateb]

I forgot to add I was eating a fair amount of wheat and before in homemade bread and lighter cookies like pizelles and graham crackers the latter of which obviously have pufa. I have eliminated as much as possible pufa (part of why I expected weight loss or at least not gain). I also was and am eating grassfed eggs.

 

[kateb]

Sorry one more thing I was drinking lots of water before like maybe 1.5 gallons a day before but have been drinking only about 3 glasses per day

 

[cbar09]

Might be useful to see a breakdown of your nutrition via a tool like cronometer.com, but what jumps out at me is your low salt intake. If you can only lose weight going below 1500 kCal despite all your lean tissue, then it sounds like your metabolism is suboptimal.

I doubt you gained much fat in that time frame, but the extra inch(es) suggests some swelling/edema to me. Gelatin can sometimes be implicated in digestive/endotoxin issues which might influence swelling. Have you tried the raw carrot salad?

From Salt, energy, metabolic rate, and longevity

Despite numerous publications showing that diuretics could cause the edematous problems that they were supposed to remedy, they have been one of the most profitable types of drug. Dietary salt restriction has become a cultural cliché, largely as a consequence of the belief that sodium causes edema and hypertension.

A low salt diet is just one of the things that can reduce kidney circulation and stimulate renin production. Bacterial endotoxin, and other things that cause excessive capillary permeability, edema, or shock-like symptoms, will activate renin secretion.

One way of looking at those facts is to see that a lack of sodium slows metabolism, lowers carbon dioxide production, and creates inflammation, stress and degeneration. Rephrasing it, sodium stimulates energy metabolism, increases carbon dioxide production, and protects against inflammation and other maladaptive stress reactions.

 

[kateb]

Thank you. I thought it might be the gelatin and collagen as I suspected in the past that in much smaller amounts it might have stalled weight loss but was never sure. I have been having a lot lot more probably 6 tablespoons a day plus gummy bears. I do think I would benefit from more salt ( I get orthostatic hypotension that's dizzy when standing up sometimes) maybe I will try reducing carbohydrates some and increasing salt. I'd like to add more coconut oil but I am afraid of interfering with glucose metabolism. Has anyone had success with coconut oil and high carbohydrate consumption like a lots of orange juice? Presumably saturated fats also impair glucose metabolism?

 

[kateb]

Oh and yes one to two carrots a day with coconut oil and salt but not much of either of the latter two

 

[kateb]

What to do if it is a gelatin collagen reaction? My grocery stores have grass fed muscle meat but not bone in meat I would think conventional beef with bones would be highly estrogenic even worse to make a stew from than to just grill. Could I just eat pastured eggs and shellfish or still too much tryptophan?

 

[Peatful]

I was a 119 pound female 5'3 age 36 with two young children still nursing 3 year old (yes prolactin I know) who was eating moderate carbs before more peat style eating and began eating more carbs in the form of orange juice and sugar mostly and adding collagen and gelatin (great lakes) to this. I did not add much dairy as I avoid it for ethical reasons but did add some to coffee to avoid almond milk until I got some coconut milk. Main calorie sources: orange juice, sugar, shrimp, beef, gummy bears, 1 teaspoon coconut oil or less daily. I have eaten to satiety not to overly full. I find carbohydrates the most satiating. Before this I was mostly eating chicken breast, sugar candy, some vegetables and intermittent fasting. My 119 weight was with some carbohydrate stores as I could reduce it to 117 by reducing carbohydrates. To lose weight I usually need to eat 1500 calories or less or at least for it to be not painfully slow. I have been eating around 2000 calories and maintaining for a few months.I strength train and have been doing so for years about 5 days a week and do a couple recreational sports 1-2 times a week but not to excess and not to breathing heavily. I have a solid amount of muscle so look leaner than my weight (people usually think I weigh 110) but still some belly fat and upper thigh fat though have some minor abdominal definition. I am not sedentary and get outside.

I got my temp up quickly from 97.5-98 to 98.3-98.6 in a few days and pulse from 70 to 80+ from eating more but I also now weigh 125. It isn't intestinal contents as I am eating little solid food and no fiber. It has only been 1 week. I added aspirin, extra caffeine and vitamin e two days ago and went from 123 to 125 in two days. I am an inch thicker in waist, hips and upper thigh, from 25, 32, 21 to 26, 33, 22. My face lost definition too. I have not added much salt if any as I started retaining water so quickly with additional carbohydrates. I don't think I am eating more than 2200-2500 calories. Could this all be water or likely fat too? I don't feel comfortable, I went from feeling relatively lean to chubby. Can glycogen/water add inches like that? On the positive side my leg, glute and arm muscles look fuller but then so does my belly and I'd rather have a smaller belly and less full muscles as I live in Florida by beach....

I am thinking of returning to intermittent fasting with thyroid supportive nutrition when eating but here is my question: is this likely glycogen stores in liver and muscle and if so if I am eating less at what point will I affect t4 to t3 conversion due to reduced glycogen from reduced food? I guess if it is glycogen/water this is my "real" weight and I have a lot more fat to loose but I am unsure how to go about it. I was 135 a year ago and got down to 119 which is a huge change at my height and getting up to 125 is upsetting to me. I thought maybe I have thyroid issues with prolactin from breast feeding and cold feet and reduced cold tolerance and felt face was looking puffy (usually have strong facial definition) but seems odd since I have a pretty strong appetite and got my temp and pulse up so quickly. Any ideas? Allergy to something? So puffy so fast seems odd at my size when I wasn't very low carb before.

For ME...aspirin made me gain fast and furious. Like, it didn't even look or feel like my body anymore.
Everyone is different mind you.
My gain was muscle, fat and water.
As much as I love the medicinal property of aspirin, I stopped secondary to the weight gain.

 

[kateb]

For ME...aspirin made me gain fast and furious. Like, it didn't even look or feel like my body anymore.
Everyone is different mind you.
My gain was muscle, fat and water.
As much as I love the medicinal property of aspirin, I stopped secondary to the weight gain.

Thank you so much. I expected the first 2 or 3 pounds with increased orange juice and sugar but two more pounds in two days did correspond to the aspirin not an additional carbohydrate increase and it was these last 2 pounds that really started to worry me. So I'm not going to take aspirin anymore I'm also going to cut out gelatin and collagen for a little while I have increased my sea salt today by quite a bit which might confuse me but it's supposed to reduce edema so I'll see. Hard to control for variables with so many factors involved. My calories and macro nutrients haven't changed very much but the gelatin in high amounts and aspirin were the two very new things so I am suspicious of both. When the water weight subsides I'll try at least the gelatin again to test. Not so sure about the aspirin.

 

[tara]

If you can only lose weight going below 1500 kCal despite all your lean tissue, then it sounds like your metabolism is suboptimal.

+1

Chronic undereating, esp. given a pretty physically active habits and at least partially feeding an extra growing person, can have that effect, thought there could be other contributors too. One of the common consequences seems to be a tendency to gain some fat when returning to normal eating. I don't know that this tendency can be instantly remedied from one week to the next by switching diet.

I am thinking of returning to intermittent fasting with thyroid supportive nutrition when eating but here is my question: is this likely glycogen stores in liver and muscle and if so if I am eating less at what point will I affect t4 to t3 conversion due to reduced glycogen from reduced food?

My guess is these may not be compatible, and that you may already have negatively affected your thyroid function. It can take a while to reset.

( I get orthostatic hypotension that's dizzy when standing up sometimes)

I've experienced that in the past when in retrospect I think I was undereating. Salt may help too.

Presumably saturated fats also impair glucose metabolism?

My understanding is small amounts of saturated fat can help protect against unavoidable PUFAs, and that large amounts of long chain SFAs (and PUFAS, which also have other downsides) tend to reduce sugar oxidation via the Randle cycle (seesaw). Not sure that this applies to coconut oil, being more medium chain SFA.
I've seen Peat recommend something like 1 tsp coconut oil with meals.

I expected the first 2 or 3 pounds with increased orange juice and sugar but two more pounds in two days did correspond to the aspirin not an additional carbohydrate increase and it was these last 2 pounds that really started to worry me.

Personally, my weight can fluctuate by at least 2-3 kilos from day to day according to what I eat - weight trends over weeks or months seem more significant to me.

 

[cbar09]

What to do if it is a gelatin collagen reaction? My grocery stores have grass fed muscle meat but not bone in meat I would think conventional beef with bones would be highly estrogenic even worse to make a stew from than to just grill. Could I just eat pastured eggs and shellfish or still too much tryptophan?

Simply supplementing glycine could be something to try...

The main amino acids in gelatin are glycine and proline; alanine is also present in significant quantity. Glycine and proline are responsible for the unusual fibrous property of collagen. - Gelatin, stress, longevity

Sometimes changing the brand of gelatin can make the difference. Dan's toxinless site is a good resource for different food & supplement sources: Collagen supplements with the fewest additives - Toxinless

I think going the whole foods route of eggs and shellfish while avoiding excess muscle meat is also safe like you said.