Weight Gain On Low, Low Pufa

[irina tone]

Hi, good Peat people,

I have a similar concern with weight gain while trying to deplete PUFA on a very low fat diet. Thoughts for optimization?

History: I am hypothyroid (initial TSH level: 6.1) on 45 mg Armour currently. Been on it for 3 months. My TSH levels are now 2.6, way better than where I started. Also pre-diabetic.
I'm coming from 2 years of very low carb (almost no sugar, and only eating grapefruits every day), zero coffee and high PUFA intake (lots of walnuts, avocados, chicken every single day) plus intense exercise (cardio 1 h everyday and intense 1 hour cardio and strength workouts every day). Result: hypothyroid, with extremely low progesterone levels. I shot my metabolism big time.
I'm 33, 5' 5", I've always weighed 118lbs - 120 lbs. My weight these days is 132 lbs. Not totally worried by the weight gain, but it's annoying.

I have been peating for 2 months. Been feeling good. Now, I've decided to reduce my PUFA levels by going low fat for about 2 weeks now, but I keep putting on weight (3-4 lbs just in the past 2 weeks). I would love to lose the weight I've gained, not put on more.

My diet right now.
Around 1600 calories, 74% carbs/sugar, 25% protein (around 90-100 g), 1% fat.
OJ with collagen (2 cups)
Skim milk ( 1/2 quart /day)
0% fat strained yogurt with apple sauce (1:2 ratio of protein to sugar)
30 g protein from collagen powder
Egg whites for breakfast (3 egg whites)
coffee + honey (2 -3 times /day)
Raw carrots and fruit
Seafood (2-3 oz a day)
Liver 1x/week
Steamed vegetables (cauliflower, etc)
I was taking aspirin (1.2 g) + niacinamide (250 mg) daily for the past 2 weeks, until I read that it's hindering fat loss. Awesome. I could feel the weight pile on, I didn't know what it was.
Vit E: 200 ml/day (Tocovit), Vit K2 (Quinone), B1 300 mg with every meal, 45 mg Armour/daily Progesterone on days 14-28 of the cycle
Some light exercise: walking + strength 3 times/week.

I want to add some hydrogenated coconut oil and MCT oil. Would 25 g be enough to sustain a low fat diet and not to wreck my hormones more than I have in the past? That's around 15% fat in a 1600-calorie diet.

Are there any other things I could be doing to support my PUFA depletion and lose some weight, while healing my hypothyroidism?

add B2 or extra calcium?

How long would I need to try to avoid any other fats, besides hydrogenated oil?

How do you know that you've depleted the PUFA?

(my first post after I've spent 3 months reading a lot on this forum to educate myself)

 

[Luann]

An update here and I will reply to irina tone if i can help in any way, in a little bit. But had to get some thoughts on paper first.

I looked at cronometer and was getting under fifty percent of the daily value for copper, B6, and manganese. Started liver a few weeks ago, and haven't seen any big improvements, then started drinking prune juice for the B6 and using ginger and maple syrup for the manganese in them. My legs look a little less swollen in the calves and ankles and my back stopped hurting at night but besides for that still no big changes, like weight loss. Also my hair has been breaking and looking pale at the ends and coarse at the top. I think it is a thyroid thing. Will update again with any improvements or changes.

 

[Terma]

Yeah niacinamide is a potent fat loss blocker, looks like that's covered.

I've also never been able to lose weight while consuming milk (0%) or most casein products, only gain.

In contrast, I lost 50+lbs with 90g/day of whey powder.

I never researched this too deep but I figured the IGF-1 in milk might feedback and lower endogenous human growth hormone, together with the fact casein is digested slowly. Ray Peat would love this but as far as stress hormones go, HGH is much more preferable to cortisol for weight loss and sleep, and it interacts with thyroid and vitamin D. (so I never eat dairy late in the day anymore)

Alternatively problems digesting casein or anything in milk might lead to cytokines that increase fat deposition with or without cortisol and less brown adipose tissue. But you could posit that about any food you have problems digesting.

 

[Amazoniac]

Have you tried to add cocoa powder and (or) cinnamon to your milch? If not, it's something worth trying because they'll probably make the meals more balanced. Many members have the impression that occasional nutrient-dense foods can make up for all of the imbalanced meals of the week. Maybe, if you're energized, but not always the case. Coffee is just too stimulating for the magnesium it provides, chocolate seems more balanced in that regard, this is more relevant if you're already needing it; and if you add cinnamon to the combination with milk, they will provide you some copper, zinc and manganese.

Nutrition apps are more reliable for calories and to verify if you're not doing something extreme, but other than that, even if your input was only a single meal per day, it could look adequate by values.

Regarding white rice, it can be depleting in the same way as purified casein. Those pains can be caused by a sharp depletion of any or a combination of B vits. Back again on being energized, I already posted something about it and our grand lord mentioned many times that even if you eat an adequate diet and supplement in excess of needs, sometimes you can't retain or use some nutrients properly, it's likely that a few of them are discarted to conserve the scarce energy.

 

[Amazoniac]

What about boron? It's often recommended along with vit b6 for being involved in magnesium metabolism.

 

[Luann]

another update, I am still not losing any water weight but I've reduced a TON of back pain and knee aches by (I think) taking ginger as a tea, for the manganese it has. It also could have been a result of taking B6 or eating liver for the last two months, not sure. But something is (sort of) working as far as joint aches go. and my calves have lost most of the swelling.

the bad news is now the skin on my face looks...older. It has for a little while now. Kind of grainy and tired. I am hoping that manganese and better thyroid function will turn it back to its old happy state. Just ordered some Mn in pill form and am counting days for it to ship here; after all, "...the mean values of Mn in serum samples of females have hyperthyroidism was significantly higher than referent subjects (p < 0.01), while lower values of Mn was observed in serum samples of hypothyroid patients." from this study here

ETa, one odd effect since drinking the ginger tea, is that my evening cup of coffee seems to have more of a kick behind it now - like a magic that it lost for a while there. Good times!

 

[Luann]

@irina tone , I am eating pretty similar to you and can tell you that niacinamide, which I don't even take, is probably not causing your weight gain.Hope it gets better for you.

I have a sneaky feeling that my body has retained most of its PUFA despite my avoiding the stuff rigorously. Who knows, maybe body thinks it will need the calories from it, maybe it is afraid to go through detox process for some reason, like it doesn't have the energy. I just received the manganese I ordered, 10 mg pills, which is needed for the making of thyroid. My thinking is that this will help the body finally ready to "go through" some of its stored toxins, kind of like a hoarder who needs to be in the right place mentally to go through all his stuff and decide what to keep and what to toss. Lol. #Thoughts

 

[milk]

the bad news is now the skin on my face looks...older.

Are you doing intermittent fasting? This recently happened to me too.

 

[Luann]

Nope @milk actually I take care to eat when blood sugar feels the least bit low. Are you doing intermittent fasting? Sorry to hear that.

 

[Kate]

8 pounds only, lucky XD

I am way healthier than I was a few years ago, (aka i actually like eating now)
then I gained 20 pounds (but also got a foot taller) ;.;

 

[milk]

Are you doing intermittent fasting?

I was, a week ago, did it for about a week, then noticed effect on my skin. Am not doing it anymore.

 

[sladerunner69]

How to get your salt requirements? I mix mine with coffee and sugar, but recently I've been eating meat, cheese, and eggs for breakfast, so that's helped.

What kind of meat? Just peat standards like oysters and liver? Or muscle meats?

 

[DaveFoster]

What kind of meat? Just peat standards like oysters and liver? Or muscle meats?

Muscle meats, and I eat a can of oysters per week.

8 pounds only, lucky XD

I am way healthier than I was a few years ago, (aka i actually like eating now)
then I gained 20 pounds (but also got a foot taller) ;.;

Are you still growing? The foot taller sounds pretty interesting if not.

 

[sladerunner69]

On 2500kcals skim milk, low fat high sugar fruits, lots of salt, gelatin, coffee, liver, ~ 20 or less grams of fat from stated foods and hydrogenated coconut oil, I lose between 2-3 lbs per week, its ridiculous. If your taking aspirin, niacinamide, and or glycine, those will affect fat loss etc, negatively, in my experience.
But I dont cheat, nor am I dishonest about what Im really eating, so maybe thats a factor too. ( not accusing anyone of lying, just saying )

Why do you beleive aspirin and niacinimide would negatively affect your fat loss? Wouldn't promoting metabolism increase calories burned?

 

[Kate]

Muscle meats, and I eat a can of oysters per week.

Are you still growing? The foot taller sounds pretty interesting if not.

I am not growing very much any more, (the foot was around grd 10 to 12) which is a normal age to grow?
(happens to also be when I started a better diet, and drank milk for the first time in my life)
I doubt that my body would have been able to handle the growth spurt on my sad low cal diet & pufas
also noticed that my bones are less light then they have ever been.

 

[tca300]

Why do you beleive aspirin and niacinimide would negatively affect your fat loss? Wouldn't promoting metabolism increase calories burned?

Honestly I dont know, but they slow fat loss for me, maybe it has something to do with both of them lowering free fatty acids. Im not 100% sure it would necessarily effect everyone the same, but for me they have that effect.

 

[sladerunner69]

Honestly I dont know, but they slow fat loss for me, maybe it has something to do with both of them lowering free fatty acids. Im not 100% sure it would necessarily effect everyone the same, but for me they have that effect.

Well yeah they both inhibit lypolysis in the liver, but increase excretion of FFA according to Haiduit on a Generative Energy podcast. That's just strange to me and you're not the first person who has said it. And glycine too? Isn't glycine essentially the same thing as gelatin? How much glycine were you using?

 

[tca300]

Well yeah they both inhibit lypolysis in the liver, but increase excretion of FFA according to Haiduit on a Generative Energy podcast. That's just strange to me and you're not the first person who has said it. And glycine too? Isn't glycine essentially the same thing as gelatin? How much glycine were you using?

I was using about 6 grams of glycine along with 6 tablespoons of gelatin. Using more milk in its place resulted in more weight loss and less water retention for myself. But because of the significant importance of glycine I didn't take it out of my diet for more than a few week's.
Maybe others wont have my similar experience.

 

[Luann]

@milk, some pretty cool news. I have been taking 10 mg of manganese since Friday and my skin has tightened up a lot. So far this seems legit. And I lost two pounds. I've also been making sure to have a potato almost every day for the B vitamins.

Last night I put salt and sugar water on my face as an experiment, and by mistake left it on all night. This morning I had nice skin texture and tiny little pores.

ETA, manganese is supposed to be necessary for making collagen in body.

 

[tara]

My weights are consistent as well as food sources AND amounts of each to keep variables simple and trends linear and adding niacinamide (a large dose over a day @ 1g) to my maintenance calorie level (2900cals @ 13% bodyfat) caused a definite change. 0.5 pound doesn't seem like much but you must realize that that's the equivalent of eating a surplus of 437cals a day over maintenance.
Again much like aspirin, I don't think this affect was negative by any means, just indicative of my current state of metabolism. This should point out however, the power of the inhibiting capabilities of a Peat approach.

I think Peat recommends more like 50-100mg, maybe 3/day, not 1g/day, and maybe a smaller amount, eg 50mg x 3 may smaller amount may not have the same effects on inhibiting some fat burning?

I'm curious because my fiancé is also very fit, has experimented with diet BUT has a perfect metabolism in every sense and when she messes with fat anything under 50g a day it royally jacked her up! She's 5'7" 108lbs @ 9% bf and is very dead on regular with female monthlies lol and a low fat diet distorted everything. I have a hypothesis that because women in general run on more fat burning hormones in a healthy state, it seems that they need more fat in theiir diet in general, even during a phase of less than ideal metabolism.

For a woman with 9% body fat, it seems risky to lower fat intake.

Also I know fruit is integral in peat and I don't deny it's abundance of nutrients BUT I seem to do better (as well as my fiancé) on a 60:40 ratio of complex starch to simple/fruit sugars.

I'm not measuring, but I'd guess I'm around there too ATM, or maybe a little higher starch:sugar. I'm going by tastes and cravings, and more sugar makes me feel worse, less sugar and I start to crave it. (By sugar I mean mostly sweet foods like juice, fruit etc, not just refined sucrose, though I have little of that too).

Around 1600 calories, 74% carbs/sugar, 25% protein (around 90-100 g), 1% fat.

I'm not an expert, but this doesn't look to me like enough calories to recover a metabolism on, esp. if it goes on for more than a short time, and esp. given that you are also strength training regularly. One possible risk I see with it is that the message you give your body might be that you are still in a famine.
It's possible that you don't need much fat ATM, but this seems to vary. A healthy metabolism can apparently make fats from carbs. But not everyone does well on extremely low fat diets, and it may be that you could use some to help make hormones you need. Can also help with good digestion of the rest of the food. One to experiment with for yourself.

Steamed vegetables (cauliflower, etc)

Leaves particularly have some good calcium and magnesium etc in them, esp if you drink the broth it leaches into as well.

I was taking aspirin (1.2 g) + niacinamide (250 mg) daily for the past 2 weeks, until I read that it's hindering fat loss. Awesome. I could feel the weight pile on, I didn't know what it was.

I don't think it has to be all or nothing. You could consider experimenting with much smaller amounts. Eg. 20-50mg doses of niacinamide 2-3 times a day might be enough to be helpful in supporting metabolism without inhibiting all the fat burning. Aspirin maybe 50-100mg once or twice a day similar.

I want to add some hydrogenated coconut oil and MCT oil. Would 25 g be enough to sustain a low fat diet and not to wreck my hormones more than I have in the past? That's around 15% fat in a 1600-calorie diet.
Seems reasonable to me to add a bit of coconut oil. I wouldn't take away any of the other good food.

add B2 or extra calcium?

Maybe worth adding some more calcium from food (eg greens, cheese, more milk) or eggshells or sth. Don't know if extra B2 needed. You are getting liver, which is good for lots of things.

Are there any other things I could be doing to support my PUFA depletion and lose some weight, while healing my hypothyroidism?

I don't know whether it is possible for everyone to simultaneously lose weight and raise metabolism, especially coming from a history of severe carb or calorie restriction. Maybe you will be able to. If they conflict, I know which I'd prioritise.