Low/No Fat Diet Without Weight Loss

[cyclops]

I think one of the benefits of fructose (or fruit) over glucose (starch) is that fruits and sugars have sort of a built-in meter (liver) to stop you from over consuming.

Even though it is easier for the sugar to spill over into fat because the liver can only process so much, I think you will stop eating sweet things before that happens. Like its built in and your body knows when you had enough sugar and sweet things stop being appetizing.

If it wasn't for this, then you could make the argument that glucose (starch) is better because you can consume more before it spills over into fat. But I think you would eat more starch before it stops becoming appetizing because it bypasses the liver. It doesn't have that built in stop "I've had enough" mechanism like sugar. So you can more easily eat more starch, plus the whole insulin thing, so starch can make you fatter easier if you are not really controlling portions - which is no fun.

So maybe just eat as much sugar (fruits are better obviously then white sugar because nutrients) as you want and your body will know when it has enough carbs.

Then include minimal saturated fat, just enough to get all the benefits dietary fat has, but dont overdo it.

Do all the Ray stuff with protein.

So the diet is kind of just like what Ray Peat outlines.

Maybe try to eat a little less when you can but not too much less; just leave the meal slightly hungrier then you usually do.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Yeah I do still think more or less someone healthy can eat whatever and be OK. Maybe not every meal, but definitely a single meal eating junk, or going out for alcohol now and then, shouldn't be a problem for a healthy individual. For example I dunno if you know Zachs who used to post here but he found after he FULLY recovered from hypothyroid that his metabolism was so on fire he could eat anything and get away with it. I'm not saying we should do that lol, I'm just saying it's a good marker to know if you're truly healed or if just one single meal sets you down a negative spiral again, and my long term goal is to be able to indulge now and then so that I can actually have a social life. Of course, that's down the road, and I don't mind being orthorexic for now.

I'm not sure how much 1 gram of VE can buffer against PUFA wise. I just took a wild guess to be honest. If you're right and only 200 IU is needed for a whole meal, then maybe that's not too bad. I do know Haidut has quoted the Schute brothers before and they gave people dosages up to close to 10 grams of vitamin E in one sitting. I was virtually zero fat yes. I did find it boosted my waking body temperatures to 98.6F on a fairly regular basis. I actually got a 7 day streak of 98.6F waking body temp virtually every day. So, maybe I will just go back to that, as it did kind of work. Even if it didn't make me lose much weight, at least I had cognitive functionality on it lol. Potato and gelatin were my protein sources essentially. IMO these are the two lowest inflammation proteins you can possibly eat. Gelatin has zero tryptophan and potato is as high quality as egg protein (Ray's words not mine) and as an added bonus, potatoes don't cause ammonia generation. If I combine this with Energin (B vitamins), choline supplementation etc (which I was NOT doing while on that experiment) maybe I'll see some good results. Maybe it might have helped if I had been consuming VE as well. Another thing I was not doing at the time.

What were your strategies to get to where you're at now?

Okay, I see what you're saying. Indeed, if you're in good health, then doing less than ideal choices is much less harmful(a PUFA meal or missing a night of sleep may affect you to a much lesser extent than it would in the past),

Awesome that it increased your temperatures that reliably, I mean, it makes sense, considering things like estrogen and PUFA slow down the metabolism so much.

Gelatin has zero cystine as well, so yeah, potatoes+ gelatin is great. Potatoes even soak up existing ammonia. Seems like a solid plan.

My strategy started when I introduced carbs back into my diet. I was already aware of how bad PUFA were, so I made sure to keep my intake of these fats as low as I could. I initially was using beans and rice as well as potatoes as carb sources, but all that starch was giving me gut pain, and the energy density was too low, so I would most of the time end up eating less calories than I needed. Also, with all that starch, there wasn't much space for meat, which I consider important for muscle builing and overall anabolism. My goal was in a way opposite to yours, since I was very underweight. At that time, I thought fructose was the devil in disguise, thanks to people like Dr. Mercola and Mark Sisson, and, so, I was restricting fructose very hard, even avoiding fruits that were sweet. But the more I restricted fructose, the sicker and weaker I was getting. When I reintroduced white sugar into my diet, I could finally feel alive again, and I started gaining a lot of muscle, as well as some fat, and I could digest protein well again, so I started eating very often, probably every two hours. My meals initially included a lot of meat, rice, some beans, and some vegetables as well as juice. I eventually eliminated the vegetables and the rice and beans, and focused on meat, juice, sugar and potatoes. I used a bunch of supplements as well, especially vitamin D3, which I was using 10000 iu per day, and b vitamins. I used cyproheptadine too, which helped immensely with hunger and well-being, as well as with stress.
So basically:
- a lot of sugar;
- a lot of meat;
- a lot of nutrient supplementation;
- a lot of juice;
- some pharmaceutical products.

 

[methylenewhite]

I'm on pufa depletion skim milk + sugar syrup based diet since 1 of May. When I started I was about 96 kg. Today I have 92. So far I lost only 4 kg, but there is some serious body recomposition going on. I gained lots of muscles and lost lots of fat. I'm a skinny fat type since my childhood but honestly I don't think "skinny fat" term fits anymore. I became normal slightly overweight type, not obese anymore. Weight loss kicked in only in the end of July. By weight loss I mean I lose fat faster then grow muscles so it results in overall weight loss. But I have to mention that in the beginning of July I stopped to have any desire to eat after sunset so I'm having some kind of IF since.
Skim milk 3-5 litres a day, unlimited sugar, rapadura, sugarcane syrup, orange fresh about 1 liter. It's my base. Sometimes I crave liver so I do about 300-400 grams of it averaging once every 2 weeks with coconut oil. Sometimes beef BBQ. Beef+coconut oil+salt. Acerola too depending on my stress level, which is skyhigh due life circumstances. Honestly it's inspired by TCA300. I'm planning to add potatos in the end of September.

 

[RWilly]

In my research on this, the cause of weight gain is iron and bacteria.
Is Diabetes an Infection? A New Perspective on the Cause of Weight Gain and Type 2 Diabetes

 

[lisamarie1010]

I have lost 10 lbs in a week taking some Chinese herbal concoction and it was al water weight. When I feel my fat it’s hard and dense feeling not smushy

pinacolada, what was the concoction, perhaps it can help me and others too.

 

[LUH 3417]

pinacolada, what was the concoction, perhaps it can help me and others too.

I have no idea. I was going to this Taoist herbal medicine doctor who barely spoke any English and charged me $200 for a week of herbs.

 

[Zigzag]

I'm trying to implement a low fat diet. I eat at a deficit as I have quite a bit of BF to lose. For now it's basically starches in form of regular and sweet potatos, chicken breasts without fat, fruit, tomato sauce lots of coffee. I eat around 140-160g of protein just from meat and given breasts are very lean and I don't add any kind of SFA, it seems I don't even exceed 15g of fat daily .
My question is for how long eating that way is sustainable as I'm fairly certain I'll experience hormonal issues at some point, but it's been one week already and I feel... great.

 

[iPeat]

I'm trying to implement a low fat diet. I eat at a deficit as I have quite a bit of BF to lose. For now it's basically starches in form of regular and sweet potatos, chicken breasts without fat, fruit, tomato sauce lots of coffee. I eat around 140-160g of protein just from meat and given breasts are very lean and I don't add any kind of SFA, it seems I don't even exceed 15g of fat daily .
My question is for how long eating that way is sustainable as I'm fairly certain I'll experience hormonal issues at some point, but it's been one week already and I feel... great.

I think you'd just have to worry about the amino acid profile of chicken, and the lack of calcium.

 

[milkboi]

I think you'd just have to worry about the amino acid profile of chicken, and the lack of calcium.

I agree, use Skyr (makes for great smoothies) or other low fat cheese to switch out some of the chicken, use supplemental calcium and gelatine/glycine to balance out the remaining chicken @Zigzag. This will also result in lower PUFA content of your diet.

 

[Zigzag]

I completely forgot to add that I actually do supplement calcium, but cheese might be good idea.

 

[redsun]

I'm trying to implement a low fat diet. I eat at a deficit as I have quite a bit of BF to lose. For now it's basically starches in form of regular and sweet potatos, chicken breasts without fat, fruit, tomato sauce lots of coffee. I eat around 140-160g of protein just from meat and given breasts are very lean and I don't add any kind of SFA, it seems I don't even exceed 15g of fat daily .
My question is for how long eating that way is sustainable as I'm fairly certain I'll experience hormonal issues at some point, but it's been one week already and I feel... great.

For the sake of losing weight, eating like this is completely fine. When you lose the weight you can change it up. You shouldnt experience issues.

 

[tara]

I'm just curious if anyone knows what the implications are of the situation where someone eats almost no fat, yet doesn't lose weight while in an overweight condition.

My guess - it depends.
By what/whose standard overweight?

Could it be that the body is at the weight/fat-mass it wants to be at, either because that's it's natural healthy ratio, or because it is adapted for it's current state or conditions it has been exposed to? Eg famine adaptation can include becoming good at maintaining reserves, and recovering from famine-like conditions may require some additional fat gain as part of the process. Insulating the vital organs is seems to be a normal response to restriction and lowered metabolism.

Is nutrition adequate to support efficient use of food for energy and building/maintenance? Are all micros as well as macros there in the food - protein, minerals, vitamins as well as carbs? Empty calories?

How much protein are you getting in a day?

Are you pacing your meals in a way that keeps blood sugar reasonably stable without triggering too much hunger stress?

Supplementing thyroid with inadequate nutrition looks like it might add risk extra stress.

your diet is mostly empty calories from sugar. This is bad and unsustainable,

I agree that large proportion of empty sugar calories are not likely to be sustainable.

Your liver can only handle so much fructose, ...

Especially with IF advice. Some people seem to do OK with lots of fructose, but far from everyone. And even then, I think it probably only works with frequent feeding.

Dropping empty sugar and relying on nutritious fruits which are mostly tropical fruits like banana, orange, kiwi, etc for sugars would do you much good. Potatoes are much more nutritious then fruits, you may do better with more potatoes.

For me at least, potatoes are more satiating, too.

I wouldnt get scared of fat that much. Many lose weight with fat and fat helps satiation. Relying on empty sugar makes one eat much more then they would eat normally. Nutrient dense foods reduce calorie consumption because they properly feed the body.

+1.
Mainstream seems to view anything under 30% calories from fat as a 'low-fat diet'. A bit of fat as part of meals can help with absorbing nourishment from food. That doesn't mean you have to eat lots, but you don't have to strip all the fat from your meals to get a 'low-fat diet'.

Again, with less than 500 gram a day it's literally impossible to gain fat on high carb without dietary fat at least.

Is this your own statistic for yourself (anecdote) or your own general hypothesis, or have you seen it verified somewhere for a range of people? I'm skeptical about it applying generally.

 

[tara]

Research has clearly shown that the ideal Carb to protein ratio is roughly 4:1

I rather doubt that is guaranteed to be optimal for everyone all the time.

i think people report more fat gain when eating starch

The last time I had a significant loss of weight and fat, it was after I reduced sugar intake and increased starchy foods. There were other changes too, so I can't necessarily say that was the cause. But I can say eating more spuds and other starchy foods - probably 1/2 - 2/3 of my carbs were starch - was consistent with fat loss for me personally. I wasn't deliberately trying to lose fat or weight at the time - I was aiming to have enough energy to function.
I assume this too varies from person to person. I suggest observing yourself rather than assuming what worked for someone else will work the same for you.

i love starch more... i will try
3-6 eggs
600 gram of meat (chicken or beef)
sometimes a bit cottage chease (150 gram of protein)
500 gram carbs from rice or potatoes...

I'm not saying you shouldn't eat this when you are hungry, or that you don't need it - I don't know, you might. But I don't see the benefit in forcing more than 3000 cals if you are not hungry for it.

what about the fat when i eat carbs? should I add fat to the carbs or not...
eggs with yolk or without? or no eggs at all

There will be some fat in the meat and eggs. If you eat mixed meals, you'll get some.
Most of the nourishment in eggs is in the yolk.

What about eating a varied diet including potatoes, veges, fruit so you get a range of minerals, and a bit of rice now and then if you like it?
I wouldn't try to eat several hundred grams of carbs from white rice regularly - too much like empty calories.

I actually feel ok on the zero fat diet, with the exception that I constantly feel hungry and an occasionally low blood sugar "feeling."

I'd guess that means your system is experiencing stress.

 

[Zigzag]

For the sake of losing weight, eating like this is completely fine. When you lose the weight you can change it up. You shouldnt experience issues.

I'm going to add some butter and stick to eating like this for a while. I haven't felt this good in a long time. I think it's the potatos.

 

[FitnessMike]

ALL body fat is inflammation promoting, even MUFA and even SFA. Why? Because many toxins (pesticides, heavy metals, estrogens, and more) are lipophilic (aka, they are attracted to fat and end up being stored in your body fat

can anyone confirm the validity of this ?