Do I Have To Go Low Fat To Deplete PUFA?

[paulwalkerrip]

Every time I've tried to go low fat in the past I've ended up feeling extremely hungry between meals.

First it was when I went low carb and was in the depths of "Restrict All Food At All Costs" in an effort to lose weight as fast as possible and that only ended up in a rebound where I binged my face off after losing my period. Was basically eating meat and greens and occasional spritzes of olive oil because I wasn't clued into the Keto ideology and didn't know I had to add fat where I removed carbs. Was more informed by a Whole30 approach and thought sugar and food sensitivities were what was making me fat.

Then I got really into a WFPB way of eating after watching Forks Over Knives and was swayed only by the testimonials on their website. Got really good at making vegan substitutions. Ate a lot of tahini and lentils and brown rice. Still had milk in my coffee though because anyone who is at least a little bit honest w themselves knows that none of the plant based milks come close.

Found 180 Degree Health through the website Eat Like A Normal Person and devoured it all. Bought butter. Lots of it. Gained about 20 pounds. Freaked out and started reading a lot of Ray Peat.

This all happened over the course of two years. Two years of learning just absolutely way more than any sane person needs to know about nutrition.

I'm trying to get to a better place now and I don't really follow any eating rules except trying to avoid PUFAs/seed oils at all costs. I try to find good fruit when I can but I don't quibble about it if I can. I've noticed that I feel better when I focus on getting a good amount of animal protein so I do that. I get a carrot salad in when I remember and take K2 MK4.

Back to my original question and my most pressing concern: what's the safest way to get rid of PUFA and do I have to wade into the waters of restriction again?

I believe that I have a not insignificant amount of PUFA stored in my tissues from growing up in North America in the 90s. Snacks were goldfish after school even though we ate fresh vegetables and meat for dinner. I picked up a container of baby formula the other day and it had soybean oil listed in the ingredients. PUFA happened.

Any advice you can give would be appreciated.

 

[olive]

PUFA gets preferentially burned for fuel. You could just do a water fast if you were worried and wanted to purge any stored PUFA as quickly as possible. Otherwise just a standard 300 caloric deficit will get you there eventually.

 

[RatRancher]

What?
PUFA is preferentially Stored,
SFA is preferentially burneď.

The problem with rapid weight loss is the toxic effects of stored PUFA being released. This is RP101.

Op, low fat helps, but the issue of pufa toxicity remains. Please research vitamin E , and a few other supplements like mitolipin and cardenosine.
Except for coconut oil, the fat increase in the bloodstream will slow down sugar metabolism via the Randle cycle, creating an increase in cortisol and epinephrine.......resulting in increased fat storage and blood triglycerides, resulting in lowered sugar metabolism. The effects can run a huge spectrum ,from hypoglycemia-anxiety,lethargy and fatigue.

I think a low fat diet (with very low pufa) with a few supplements to block pufa toxicity plus an increase in muscle mass is the best way to deplete pufa stores.

 

[milkboi]

What?
I think a low fat diet (with very low pufa) with a few supplements to block pufa toxicity plus an increase in muscle mass is the best way to deplete pufa stores.

Also uncoupling: "One effect of the high rate of oxidation of the uncoupled mitochondria is that they can eliminate polyunsaturated fatty acids that might otherwise be integrated into tissue structures, or function as inappropriate regulatory signals." - Ray Peat

 

[baccheion]

PUFA gets preferentially burned for fuel. You could just do a water fast if you were worried and wanted to purge any stored PUFA as quickly as possible. Otherwise just a standard 300 caloric deficit will get you there eventually.

I thought this was only when stressed? Under normal conditions, SFA are preferred.

 

[Aymen]

I thought this was only when stressed? Under normal conditions, SFA are preferred.

Body burns PUFA more quickly when fatty acids are released during stress, so SFA are preferably burned under normal conditions, right.

 

[paulwalkerrip]

@olive Thanks for the reply but I'm hoping not to do anything that involves getting neurotic about calories -

What?
PUFA is preferentially Stored,
SFA is preferentially burneď.

The problem with rapid weight loss is the toxic effects of stored PUFA being released. This is RP101.

Op, low fat helps, but the issue of pufa toxicity remains. Please research vitamin E , and a few other supplements like mitolipin and cardenosine.
Except for coconut oil, the fat increase in the bloodstream will slow down sugar metabolism via the Randle cycle, creating an increase in cortisol and epinephrine.......resulting in increased fat storage and blood triglycerides, resulting in lowered sugar metabolism. The effects can run a huge spectrum ,from hypoglycemia-anxiety,lethargy and fatigue.

I think a low fat diet (with very low pufa) with a few supplements to block pufa toxicity plus an increase in muscle mass is the best way to deplete pufa stores.

Have got a bottle of Vit E but will look into the other ones. Thanks for the advice. Still unsure if low fat is gonna work for me but I will work on increasing muscle mass.

 

[lisamarie1010]

Also uncoupling: "One effect of the high rate of oxidation of the uncoupled mitochondria is that they can eliminate polyunsaturated fatty acids that might otherwise be integrated into tissue structures, or function as inappropriate regulatory signals." - Ray Peat

What does this mean, exactly?
(As a way to eat.) Thank you.

 

[olive]

I thought this was only when stressed? Under normal conditions, SFA are preferred.

Not true. There’s a reason why the salespeople on this forum use obscure animal studies when taking about PUFA vs SFA. Studies in HUMANS show PUFA is preferentially burned and excess SFA intake is preferentially stored viscerally and ectopically - you know the places you don’t want fat stored?
It’s a topic been discussed to death a few years ago but the threads are always buried.

Overfeeding of Polyunsaturated Versus Saturated Fatty Acids Reduces Ectopic Fat

 

[milkboi]

What does this mean, exactly?
(As a way to eat.) Thank you.

Not sure if there are any significant foodstuffs that promote uncoupling significantly, other than a a really high caloric meal (which for PUFA depletion is counterproductive, because you will store more fat despite potentially burning some off with uncoupling). Supplements would be caffeine, aspirin, benzoic acid, thyroid, MB, DNP (seems risky, I will try it soon regardless), and more.

VoS Uncoupling Thread

 

[olive]

Not sure if there are any significant foodstuffs that promote uncoupling, other than a a really high caloric meal (which for PUFA depletion is counterproductive, because you will store more fat despite potentially burning some off with uncoupling). Supplements would be caffeine, aspirin, benzoic acid, thyroid, MB, DNP (seems risky, I will try it soon regardless), and more.

That uncoupling experiment was a massive fail, I think Haidian even publicly apologised for promoting it.
If you want to lose weight eat less, move more, sleep adequately. There’s no magic tricks.

 

[milkboi]

That uncoupling experiment was a massive fail, I think Haidian even publicly apologised for promoting it.
If you want to lose weight eat less, move more, sleep adequately. There’s no magic tricks.

Sure I wouldn't follow the advice in VoS Uncoupling Thread, but it's still a fine resource to get a grasp of uncoupling. Uncoupling will work for losing weight, you know that right?

 

[baccheion]

Not true. There’s a reason why the salespeople on this forum use obscure animal studies when taking about PUFA vs SFA. Studies in HUMANS show PUFA is preferentially burned and excess SFA intake is preferentially stored viscerally and ectopically - you know the places you don’t want fat stored?
It’s a topic been discussed to death a few years ago but the threads are always buried.

Overfeeding of Polyunsaturated Versus Saturated Fatty Acids Reduces Ectopic Fat

What about MUFA? Are you saying PUFAs aren't that bad? Are you also saying they increase testosterone? Or is it the cases with a desirable/higher omega-3 : omega-6 ratio? That is, are omega-6s primarily the problem? Further, isn't the oxidation/burning of PUFAs that's seen as bad (due to effects)?

Not sure if there are any significant foodstuffs that promote uncoupling significantly, other than a a really high caloric meal (which for PUFA depletion is counterproductive, because you will store more fat despite potentially burning some off with uncoupling). Supplements would be caffeine, aspirin, benzoic acid, thyroid, MB, DNP (seems risky, I will try it soon regardless), and more.

VoS Uncoupling Thread

Vitamin A, norepinephrine, and capsaicin increase UCP1. DIO1: zinc. DIO2: vitamin D, vitamin E, and selenium.

 

[cedric]

Perhaps phlebotomy is a good idea to get rid of PUFA together with an excess iron and oxysterols.

Plasma and erythrocyte fatty acids reflect intakes of saturated and n-6 PUFA within a similar time frame. - PubMed - NCBI

J Nutr. 2014 Jan;144(1):33-41. doi: 10.3945/jn.113.183749. Epub 2013 Nov 13.
Plasma and erythrocyte fatty acids reflect intakes of saturated and n-6 PUFA within a similar time frame.
Hodson L1, Eyles HC, McLachlan KJ, Bell ML, Green TJ, Skeaff CM.
Author information
1
Department of Human Nutrition, and.
Abstract
Erythrocytes, compared with plasma, are considered more robust markers of n-3 (ω-3) polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) intake, because dietary-induced change in fatty acid (FA) composition takes longer to complete. The extent to which this applies to intakes of saturated fatty acid (SFA) or n-6 PUFA is unclear. We compared the pattern of change over time in the fatty acid composition of plasma, erythrocyte, buccal cell, and adipose tissue lipids when changing between diets high in SFA or n-6 PUFA. Twenty-four (n = 7 male) healthy participants were instructed to consume either an SFA-rich (18% energy) or n-6 PUFA-rich (10% energy) diet for 8 wk before crossing over, without washout, to the alternate diet. The FA composition of plasma triacylglycerol (TG), nonesterified FAs, cholesterol ester, total phospholipids, erythrocyte total phospholipids, erythrocyte phosphatidylcholine, and buccal cell total phospholipids was measured every 2 wk and adipose tissue TG every 4 wk during the 16-wk intervention. Linoleic acid composition of plasma, erythrocyte, and buccal cell lipids increased (P < 0.01) during the first 2 wk of the n-6 PUFA diet and remained unchanged during the remaining 6 wk. During the 8-wk SFA diet, the same pattern of change over time occurred for the pentadecanoic acid composition of plasma and erythrocyte lipids; however, the pentadecanoic acid composition of buccal cell lipids did not differ between the diet periods. There were no differences in linoleic or pentadecanoic acid composition of adipose tissue TG. These results suggest plasma and erythrocyte FAs reflect intakes of SFA and n-6 PUFA over a similar period of time.
Red blood cell PUFAs reflect the phospholipid PUFA composition of major organs - ScienceDirect

Highlights


•
We compared phospholipid fatty acids (FAs) across tissues.

•
The amounts of n-3 and n-6 LCPUFAs varied across tissues.

•
n-3 and n-6 LCPUFA content of erythrocytes reflected that of major organs.

•
Tissue FA were altered by EPA+DHA supplementation, but to different extents.

•
Erythrocyte EPA+DHA (the omega-3 index) is a valid surrogate for tissue EPA+DHA.

PUFA's go mainstream
Erythrocyte Phospholipid and Polyunsaturated Fatty Acid Composition in Diabetic Retinopathy

Abstract
Background
Long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids (LCPUFAs) including docosahexaenoic acid and arachidonic acid are suspected to play a key role in the pathogenesis of diabetes. LCPUFAs are known to be preferentially concentrated in specific phospholipids termed as plasmalogens. This study was aimed to highlight potential changes in the metabolism of phospholipids, and particularly plasmalogens, and LCPUFAs at various stages of diabetic retinopathy in humans.

Oxysterols - WaiWiki

 

[lampofred]

I think you do have to eat low-fat to deplete PUFA. The amount of PUFA your mitochondria contain depends more on how much heat your cells are producing and less on how much absolute PUFA you are consuming (although it's still best to minimize PUFA consmption as much as you can). All fat, even saturated fat, reduces heat production.

 

[Ableton]

I started eating very low pufa maybe 3 months ago (before:low pufa for someone who has never heard from peat) and 2 month ago I fasted from 78kg to 73kg on white rice and some coco oil, as 1,81m 28y old male. Went from lean to almost anorexic which was bad in many ways. Wonder if I depleted tons of pufa there, though. Maybe not because of the coco oil...

 

[johnwester130]

I started eating very low pufa maybe 3 months ago (before:low pufa for someone who has never heard from peat) and 2 month ago I fasted from 78kg to 73kg on white rice and some coco oil, as 1,81m 28y old male. Went from lean to almost anorexic which was bad in many ways. Wonder if I depleted tons of pufa there, though. Maybe not because of the coco oil...

the coconut oil also depletes PUFA from the body

aspirin
niacinamide
vitamin E

also help to do this

 

[Ableton]

the coconut oil also depletes PUFA from the body

aspirin
niacinamide
vitamin E

also help to do this

then i should be good, took e and aspirin.
I need to look into niacinamide, everyone mentions it

 

[johnwester130]

then i should be good, took e and aspirin.
I need to look into niacinamide, everyone mentions it

just the coconut oil by itself can displaces the PUFA from the tissues

 

[Ableton]

does the pufa release contribute to hypothyroidism? (while releasing)
i was so ******* cold all the time