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Why Do I Find Dairy Fat To Be Particularly Fattening?

Discussion in 'Dairy' started by Dean, May 25, 2015.

  1. Dean

    Dean Member

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    edit: substituted "particularly" for "especially" fattening in subject line to actually say what I meant.


    Since my last question opened up a scintillating debate that was as far reaching as it was insightful, I thought I'd throw out another one.

    Why would dairy fat cause weight gain or prohibit weight loss?

    For years, I used low carb diets to quickly shed weight that I would always inevitably gain by just eating whatever. In my several forays into Atkins and the like, however, I could never lose weight until I dropped the dairy (butter, cheese). I remember Atkins accounted for this, saying some people would need to drop the dairy. I don't remember though what was the reasoning, if he even gave one. It certainly wouldn't have come from a Peat perspective.

    Anyway, fast forward to the present. About 4 or 5 days ago, I substituted the few fat grams (around 20g) I have been getting daily from coconut oil to 1% milk and cottage cheese and the part-skim reduced fat string cheese (2g. fat per piece). Still getting the same amount of total fat. Calories are also the same, just have substituted more protein for less carbs. In that short time, however, there has been a noticeable difference in the way my pants fit. Even had to suck in my gut this morning, when only a week ago I had to wear a belt with the same pants.

    I had been eating a little string cheese and 1% milk at the time I started peating again back in January and was gaining, or at least, not losing weight then as well. It's only been in the last few weeks, where I dropped all fat but a tablespoon of coconut oil, that I noticed some weight loss (hence the need for the belt). So yeah, I know coconut oil promotes weight loss, but why (at least in my case) does dairy fat now and in the past either cause weight gain or inhibit weight loss?
     
  2. Peata

    Peata Member

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    I'm interested in this too. Dairy/calcium is supposed to help people lose weight, but that's not been my experience. Even when I went on a very low fat diet like you, 20g. or less total per day - usually 5 - 10 g. per day, I still didn't lose weight. I was still eating dairy such as low fat string cheese, fat free yogurt, lowfat cottage cheese, skim milk.
     
  3. OP
    Dean

    Dean Member

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    Well, at least I'm not alone--though I don't wish this "hardship" on anyone else. Like I said, since this is something that Atkins acknowledged there must be a somewhat significant minority of people this is true for, whatever the reason.

    I do remember Peat talking about noticing how much thinner milk drinking populations were than those that were not milk drinkers. I almost have the notion that observation may have been the genesis of "peating." Obviously though, he was speaking in broad generalities and anomalies occur. Welcome to the anomaly, Peata.
     
  4. Peata

    Peata Member

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    Did you notice any resistance to weight loss while on full fat dairy?
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Low metabolism. Are you taking t3?
     
  6. OP
    Dean

    Dean Member

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    yeah, back in those days when I was using low carb diets, I was against no and low fat dairy. It was always full fat... cheese, butter, etc. Those were things allowed in Atkins, for example. In his book though, I remember him saying that if you don't lose weight on his plan, the first thing to try was to drop the dairy. So, obviously this is something he'd come across in his clinical practice before he wrote the book and went big time.
     
  7. OP
    Dean

    Dean Member

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    Well, yeah, my metabolism is low, but why would low metabolism be especially exasperated by dairy fat? I mean I've lost weight in the past and recently while consuming fat from meat and vegetable sources.

    Not on t3 now. I tried it in the past, but I am unsure of the quality as I was in Cambodia at the time. It was the first time I tried "peating" four or five years ago. I remember even then, I had lost a lot of weight during lengthy travels and started putting weight back on by eating imported block cheddar cheese. That was right at the time I was experimenting with t3, but as I said I have and had doubts about the quality. Didn't notice anything from it at the time, other than occasional profuse sweating. I was, however, in the tropics during the humid rainy season and staying in a place without a/c though, so...
     
  8. Gl;itch.e

    Gl;itch.e Member

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    Well dairy is insulinogenic I guess. So it's not necessarily just the fat, but also the protein and carbs that have to be accounted for. If such a small amount of food is causing such a noticeable effect in a short time I wouldn't believe its actual fat gain but perhaps a little edema, bloating, water shift (whatever you want to call it)
     
  9. OP
    Dean

    Dean Member

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    Yeah, I admit the recent sample size is very small, but put together with my life long trend, it seemed compelling enough.

    I was beginning to think it wasn't just dairy fat, but dairy in general; but like I mentioned before, I was starting to lose by removing all dairy, but non-fat milk powder and Fage 0%. You're still going to get a negligible amount of fat from those, but is the increase from 2g to 20g that much of a change to reverse weight loss/cause edema? Maybe if I just stick it out long enough the fattening or edema will work itself out, though I'd rather not gain weight. Perhaps I'll drop the string cheese for a bit (cheese constipates me anyway) and then, if necessary, the cottage and see if that might makes a difference.
     
  10. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    Because it is :lol:
     
  11. Zachs

    Zachs Member

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    The opposite for me, I replaced 200-300 starch with well over 100g fat from dairy and am noticeably leaner. going on three weeks now so not just initial water weight, for me dairy fat seems like a great fuel source.

    BUT, before my metabolism was fixed, any amount of fat in the diet would make me gain fat. Going VLF to rid pufa worked wonders for my metabolism.
     
  12. OP
    Dean

    Dean Member

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    Zachs, how long did you go VLF? I've been at 20g fat or less for about 4 months now, save maybe a week's worth of days strewn in there where I got more.
     
  13. Peata

    Peata Member

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    I went VLF for about 6 weeks without anything of interest happening. No weight loss. I felt like my skin got clearer, but since I went back to moderate fat it is the same, so I don't know. I also felt like I would get warmer temps here and there on VLF, but I have consistent warm temps now just from eating more frequently and getting those calories in.
     
  14. OP
    Dean

    Dean Member

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    I went with the VLF to deplete PUFA, but I did kind of hope/assume some weight loss would come along with it.
     
  15. Zachs

    Zachs Member

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    Dean, around 4 months of strict zero added fat. Besides occasional hard boiled eggs, I did not eat any fat.
     
  16. Peata

    Peata Member

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    Same here.
     
  17. Ella

    Ella Member

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    I have been trying to get my head around this question also and it is doing my head in. Is it because its insulemic, IGF-1 & GH. It does matter if it low fat or whole. From what I understand, is that in individuals that are insulin resistant, hepatocytes shut the door on insulin but gonads don't. Increase in insulin stimulate gonads to produce more hormones, estrogens and androgens. Insulin influences thyroid hormones in the liver. Insulin is required to convert T4 - T3. Without the active T3, metabolism stalls and therefore the extra calories are not burnt but stored as fat. Peat promotes milk knowing that it is insulemic. Everyone is screaming that insulin should be zero but not our Peat. He says to marry fruit with milk/cheese because of fructose, minerals, Vitamin C and other factors. Type 2 diabetics are not able to metabolise glucose but have no problems with fructose. What are the consequences for over production of estrogen and androgens (PCOS) and should we even worry if there is adequate progesterone and youth hormones considering we can't rely on testing. How do we know what is optimal and whether the ratios are correct given that testing is dubious. Is there anyone that has some insight on this?
     
  18. Ella

    Ella Member

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    Sorry, I meant to say It does not matter whether it is low-fat or whole-fat milk. Its not the fat.
     
  19. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    You know it could be the palmitic acid, it could be the myristic acid, lots of things.
     
  20. jyb

    jyb Member

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    It could also be neither of those things. Pass me the Jersey extra thick double cream please :cool:
     
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