LipOdd - Liquid Product With Odd-Chain Saturated Fats (SFA)

[BobbyJackson]

Awesome, have been waiting for this one for a few weeks. Can’t wait to get my hands on it. Thanks Haidut.

 

[Mossy]

The name is perfect.

Do people see this supplement as a more efficient means to do what full fat milk/dairy would do, but without the need to consume the liquid and extra calories? Or do people have more strategic purposes, aside from liquid, calorie reduction?

I know this excerpt alone, about using it for hair loss, will have people interested (it does me):

"Years later, while researching succinic acid as part of the development of our product SolBan, my attention was drawn to a pair of Japanese studies for treating hair loss by topical application of PA....The Japanese reseachers even filed a patent for treating hair-loss with PA and in that patent they opined that other odd-chain fatty acids with similar length, especially the C17:0 fat HA mentioned above, would have similarly beneficial effects on hair-growth through increasing mitochondrial function (OXPHOS)."

 

[cremes]

Do people see this supplement as a more efficient means to do what full fat milk/dairy would do, but without the need to consume the liquid and extra calories? Or do people have more strategic purposes, aside from liquid, calorie reduction?

I am interested in it for 3 reasons.

1. CVD
I survived a heart attack about 18 months ago. Anything that provides an edge in this area is welcome. The OP shows multiple studies where milk fat consumption is inversely correlated with CVD risk even after the first myocardial infarction.

2. Asprin + C15/C17 synergies
The OP also shows that those who take high-dose aspirin are at risk of anemia but consumption of C15 ameliorates that issue. As noted above, I had a heart attack so my doctor has me on 81mg of aspirin. I also take another 700mg 3x per week. I assume it is reducing my iron load (higher iron is positively correlated with CVD risk) so if C15 can avoid problems with low iron then I am happy to oblige.

3. Mitochondrial dysfunction
Many of the studies show it improves mitochondrial function. I have central obesity (as of last few years) which I am working on eliminating via diet (HCLF). As we all believe here at the RP forums, metabolism is key. If C15 and C17 can improve metabolism, I'm 100% in favor of it. One of the first paragraphs of OP describes how even-chain SFA can reduce glucose metabolism, but C15/C17 produce succinyl-CoA which does not have the same reduction impact.

How will I measure these improvements as I add LipOdd to my rat's stack? No idea.

 

[Mauritio]

I think its worth noting that some of these studies are conducted by the people that sell a C15 supplement. Does not mean that the results are useless, just to keep in mind.

"Conflicts of Interest​

S.V.-W. is a co-founder of and employed by Epitracker, Inc and Seraphina Therapeutics, Inc, which hold exclusive licensing rights from the U.S. Navy to commercialize odd-chain saturated fatty acids as human and animal health products. NJS is a co-founder of and consultant to Seraphina Therapeutics, Inc."

- Pentadecanoic Acid (C15:0), an Essential Fatty Acid, Shares Clinically Relevant Cell-Based Activities with Leading Longevity-Enhancing Compounds

 

[haidut]

Why didn't you dissolve them in ethanol? I'm just curious.

We did try using ethanol but since the solubility of those fats in ethanol is quite low, within a few minutes the ethanol solution completely solidifies and turns into something with the consistency (and look) of soap. So, not exactly useful for a liquid product

 

[haidut]

Amazing work as usual Georgi. Following the thread and can’t wait to try this.

On a side note, I’m thinking a healthy food source would be sardines, might have to add them back to my diet!

Agreed, I also try to eat more fish lately. We now know why there is a discrepancy between the studies looking at eating fish and isolated omega-3. The former is healthy, the latter is not, and it is probably due to the other good ingredients in fish. Not only PA/HA, but also things like selenium, zinc, etc.

 

[haidut]

Do people see this supplement as a more efficient means to do what full fat milk/dairy would do, but without the need to consume the liquid and extra calories?

This was the primary purpose, though it may have other peripheral benefits you mentioned such as hair growth, as well as potentially skin health, liver health, etc.

 

[haidut]

How will I measure these improvements as I add LipOdd to my rat's stack? No idea.

Well, at least in regards to CVD, your doctor should be regularly checking your cholesterol levels, iron biomarkers, liver health, etc to see if the aspirin treatment is working and if it is causing any side effects. So, if this prevent anemia (known to occur with chronic aspirin use) it would be easily visible on those tests. If it has anti-fibrotic effects, this may be visible on ultrasound of the heart showing reduction or disappearance of scar tissue formed after the heart attack.

 

[haidut]

I think its worth noting that some of these studies are conducted by the people that sell a C15 supplement. Does not mean that the results are useless, just to keep in mind.

"Conflicts of Interest​

S.V.-W. is a co-founder of and employed by Epitracker, Inc and Seraphina Therapeutics, Inc, which hold exclusive licensing rights from the U.S. Navy to commercialize odd-chain saturated fatty acids as human and animal health products. NJS is a co-founder of and consultant to Seraphina Therapeutics, Inc."

- Pentadecanoic Acid (C15:0), an Essential Fatty Acid, Shares Clinically Relevant Cell-Based Activities with Leading Longevity-Enhancing Compounds

Yes, that's true and I do mention that in the OP, right before the "****" line.

 

[Morten]

@haidut since this is a clean Odd sfa product, this means that the beneficial effects could not be achived with milk alone?

 

[tallglass13]

@haidut, Why is it that the studies speak negatively about the Even chained Saturated fats, like the ones in Defibron. Is that just poor reporting or standard Governmental jargon that has not gone away?

 

[haidut]

@haidut since this is a clean Odd sfa product, this means that the beneficial effects could not be achived with milk alone?

They should be achievable with milk but you would need to drink half a gallon daily or more, and it would be a mix of many fats so the effects may be different. Still beneficial, but not the same as taking C15/C17 in isolated forms.

 

[Morten]

They should be achievable with milk but you would need to drink half a gallon daily or more, and it would be a mix of many fats so the effects may be different. Still beneficial, but not the same as taking C15/C17 in isolated forms.

Thanks for taking your time to answer.

 

[haidut]

@haidut, Why is it that the studies speak negatively about the Even chained Saturated fats, like the ones in Defibron. Is that just poor reporting or standard Governmental jargon that has not gone away?

Where do they speak negatively about the even-chained ones? Btw, the ones in DeFibron are not even-chained but odd-chained due to mtehyl group in them, which adds another carbon. So, the methyl-myristate is actually a C15:0 fat, the methyl-palmitate is a C17:0 fat and methyl-stearate is a C19:0 fat. They are branched-chain fats, but still, odd-chain.

 

[tallglass13]

Where do they speak negatively about the even-chained ones? Btw, the ones in DeFibron are not even-chained but odd-chained due to mtehyl group in them, which adds another carbon. So, the methyl-myristate is actually a C15:0 fat, the methyl-palmitate is a C17:0 fat and methyl-stearate is a C19:0 fat. They are branched-chain fats, but still, odd-chain.

"...While dietary ECFAs have been associated with increased risk of inflammation, heart disease, and type 2 diabetes in humans12–15, higher dietary intake and circulating levels of OCFAs have been associated with lower risks of adiposity, chronic inflammation, cardiovascular disease, metabolic syndrome, type 2 diabetes, nonalcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH), chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, pancreatic cancer and other conditions14–27. In a prospective cohort involving over 14,000 people followed for an average of 14 years, increased dietary intake of OCFAs was associated with lower mortality in both men and women, while higher ECFA intake was associated with higher mortality in women28."

The first sentence, are they talking about ECFA's as Saturated Fats?
But thanks for clarifying about Defibron being methlyated, odd chain.

 

[Osukhan]

"...While dietary ECFAs have been associated with increased risk of inflammation, heart disease, and type 2 diabetes in humans12–15, higher dietary intake and circulating levels of OCFAs have been associated with lower risks of adiposity, chronic inflammation, cardiovascular disease, metabolic syndrome, type 2 diabetes, nonalcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH), chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, pancreatic cancer and other conditions14–27. In a prospective cohort involving over 14,000 people followed for an average of 14 years, increased dietary intake of OCFAs was associated with lower mortality in both men and women, while higher ECFA intake was associated with higher mortality in women28."

The first sentence, are they talking about ECFA's as Saturated Fats?
But thanks for clarifying about Defibron being methlyated, odd chain.

I use additional Stearic acid (c-18), i am under the impression that it is a beneficial fatty acid. could be the researchers are under the assumption that all saturated fats are problematic due to prev bias?
Thanks for asking the question, I find this confusing as well

 

[haidut]

"...While dietary ECFAs have been associated with increased risk of inflammation, heart disease, and type 2 diabetes in humans12–15, higher dietary intake and circulating levels of OCFAs have been associated with lower risks of adiposity, chronic inflammation, cardiovascular disease, metabolic syndrome, type 2 diabetes, nonalcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH), chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, pancreatic cancer and other conditions14–27. In a prospective cohort involving over 14,000 people followed for an average of 14 years, increased dietary intake of OCFAs was associated with lower mortality in both men and women, while higher ECFA intake was associated with higher mortality in women28."

The first sentence, are they talking about ECFA's as Saturated Fats?
But thanks for clarifying about Defibron being methlyated, odd chain.

Yeah, I think it is just the regular bashing of SFA as many researchers still believe SFA is harmful. However, one of the studies I listed in the OP mentions that palmitic acid (C16:0) has beneficial effects.
"... It was recently reported that SFAs also play important roles in various diseases. For instance, intake of SFAs can reduce the severity of pancreatitis in humans (Khatua et al., 2021). C16:0 decreases the metastatic capacity of hepatocellular carcinoma cells (Lin et al., 2017). "

I guess it all depends on the study authors and their worldview (i.e. how close their ties are with Big Pharma).

 

[Mauritio]

@haidut since this is a clean Odd sfa product, this means that the beneficial effects could not be achived with milk alone?

You should be able to get the amount of one serving from less than 15g of butter. @David PS posted a chart about that in another thread.

 

[David PS]

You should be able to get the amount of one serving from less than 15g of butter. @David PS posted a chart about that in another thread.

Thanks, I have not been following this thread. Butter will provide C15 and that is what the other thread was about. This product is about a new product combining C15:0 and C17:0 in the proper ratios. I think dairy does not have the proper ratio; it has too much C15.

I do not have an immediate need for this product. My plan is wait until the early adopters report back.

 

[BRMarshall]

Thanks Haidut!

And
@David PS
@Mauritio

The other thread is?