Caffeine May Be More Evil Than You Think!

[pboy]

I agree that ideally it isn't best for a masters state of mind because it renders you slightly less flexible, more just on...but bodily wise, and due to what it takes in the world to even have time in peace, it can be a useful tool. The body and social life are complex, and sometimes its a balance thing to where at the end of the day or those times you actually are free to enjoy yourself, using coffee at certain times overall creates a bit more optimum overall balance. Like coffee might not be good for the day youre actually relaxing on the beach or meditating, but it can be good during the time you had to work to earn that situation. In our current society, if youre full on more often you will be obliged to take care of daily tasks, clean, and do other stuff like that rather than retire to the PC or TV or something, so drinking coffee regularly can help you not get backed up with your job work or home work, as well as keeping the heart rate up keeps GI peristalsis rate up also...which means youre less likely to get constipated or retain water. However, it does have a few downsides that you have to compensate for so that its benefits over time can be seen. Tannins, bind protein, can make gut irritated or acidic, can bind stool, and stain teeth. Low roasts have more chlorogenic acid, which can temporarily mess with blood sugar, the caffeine can make you have to eat more overall without becoming ravenous, and the water content of a brewed drink has to be accounted for, either with the stereotypical pastry, or just by adding sufficient sugar to the drink...unless its a concentrated espresso, or you actually ate the beans (in which case the fibers would also be an irritant). Coffee also has some AGE's that might not be good. If used wisely and taking in to account all those potential drawbacks, it can be beneficial over time, in our current society for most, due to tis ability to keep one active and their heart active, and their GI flowing...its probably good for the liver also, usually anything that increases activity and feelings of capability is good for the liver. But like I said, if youre a retired person, or youre just someone who is pretty much a master of the mind, like you know how to stay intense willingly through intelligence, good diet, clean pure lifestyle, and regulating GI, and being self motivated and open minded and hearted, its a slight hinderance due to its stimulating action which doesn't allow as much flexibility or a deep receptive state of the mind as easily. It always supplies beneficial nutrients so it could have a role there. I can honestly say from someone who used to drink coffee and other caffeine sources since like...age 15, few cups a day, then recently a few years ago I was way up, like 1-2000 mg a day sometimes, and now having no caffeine other than maybe trace amounts, and knowing people, the society, and most peoples lives and health situations, if used with milk and sugar it would be beneficial to most people, highly beneficial...but to certain people, VERY rare people, its unnecessary and would slightly take away from max potential. As per its longevity aspects, its probably because of above mentioned...when people are moving more in life with a higher heart rate and more feeling of capability and confidence, they just generally do more, interact more, take care of business more, have a more regular GI, and all those factors probably add up over time to a less stressful totality due to less money or other such issues, and potentially the vits and minerals help

 

[pboy]

very wise girl ella! and in ancient india where its native to, its always been revered and they knew how to use it appropriately (sugar). Its one of their like top ranked substances for yoga and meditation and actually health over all, but its usually added to milk in one form or another, either in food or drink or some kind of dessert. Unfortunately western mindset has crept all around the world now, and ayurvedic practitioners in America don't even really know, a lot of times, what theyre talking about and kind of just turn an advanced system of understanding into some kind of cookie cutter American diet fad

 

[Ella]

pboy, when I was in Rome, I complained that the only breakfast I could get was coffee and those sickly sweet jam pastries. In Australia, we ate Wheat Bix with milk, porridge; basically grains with milk. The strange thing was people weren't fat or obese in Rome. The women were beautiful and petite and men not like our beer belly aussie blokes. In Italy expresso is always eaten after a meal. As my mother says coffee helps you digest your food better. How did she know and I didn't? My mother would literally die if she didn't have her coffee and she is the perfect example of how not to have coffee. She uses it as a drug. If her energy is flagging its coffee she needs and not food. I think people need to be educated in the subtle difference. Then off course food is always harder to prepare for those high adrenaline (Atype) individuals that think everything on their to do list needs to be done in one day.

 

[NotSoAlpha]

Thanks for the great information guys. It seems the anti-caff studies have major flaws.

So there are genuine benefits to caffeine & coffee.

pboy - I may have seemed a bit over-zealous with my anti-caffeine speak, but I did this to provoke good discussion.

I do hate being addicted though - having a headache and feeling like a corpse from going a day without caffeine really sucks.

I'm stuck in this position where I have to keep drinking coffee and suffer stress amplification (including neck/shoulder tension, jaw clenching, insomnia, hyperactive mind). OR SUFFER THE HELL WITHDRAWAL. I only drink like 100-150mg worth of caffeine a day too.

 

[pboy]

hmm I wonder if theres something else like maybe magnes yyoure missing, or niacin. Even when I drank coffee and caffeine a lot I didn't ever have withdrawals if I didn't drink any, the only reason and times id desire it was if there was stuff I didn't want to do, or didn't have the energy, it would motivate or stimulate me to do more. Indeed you did provoke a good discussion, its good. It would be hard to know exactly if it is the caffeine or some other aspect of coffee youre really craving without knowing whole diet, but if you get such side effects from not drinking it, it might be better to actually keep drinking to prevent symptoms, and in the mean time you could research or try new foods to supplement maybe what the coffee is providing, try decaf, or just taper off by maybe drinking a less amount slowly and see how it goes. But sometimes honoring a strong craving is better than suffering, often times it is...or the body wouldn't crave it so much. Usually there ends up being other ways to supply what you need from other sources, but if youre too incapacitated or in pain its hard to focus or try new things

 

[Such_Saturation]

Thanks for the great information guys. It seems the anti-caff studies have major flaws.

So there are genuine benefits to caffeine & coffee.

pboy - I may have seemed a bit over-zealous with my anti-caffeine speak, but I did this to provoke good discussion.

I do hate being addicted though - having a headache and feeling like a corpse from going a day without caffeine really sucks.

I'm stuck in this position where I have to keep drinking coffee and suffer stress amplification (including neck/shoulder tension, jaw clenching, insomnia, hyperactive mind). OR SUFFER THE HELL WITHDRAWAL. I only drink like 100-150mg worth of caffeine a day too.

Try drinking more water and some choline.

 

[charlie]

"The fact that a taste of chocolate can provoke a wild lust for more chocolate, or that once cigarette renews the addiction, does not mean that the presence of chocolate or nicotine in the blood creates a craving. Rather, it is that an organism in an unstable state perceives the availability of something which promises to partially restore the desired stability."

 

[Such_Saturation]

Well, at the very least the TSH lowering will have a sort of withdrawal effect. I personally find that there is no withdrawal at all if you are really feeling perfect from coffee. However if you are feeling like you need that fix every morning, then you will get a headache when you don't drink it.

 

[Filip1993]

I'm a coffee addict. I've tried going without it a couple of times, doesn't work for me… I drink at least 6 cups a day.

 

[johns74]

pboy - I may have seemed a bit over-zealous with my anti-caffeine speak, but I did this to provoke good discussion.

not sure if you did it the best way. the statement about ray touting caffeine just to rationalize his addiction made me roll my eyes and not bother replying.

 

[SQu]

Such Saturation , why would TSH lowering cause withdrawal symptoms?

 

[Such_Saturation]

Such Saturation , why would TSH lowering cause withdrawal symptoms?

Because it takes a while to go back up.

 

[Zach Shane]

I can see where anyone can demonize coffee/ caffeine, and rightfully so. So many people react poorly to it, and that is because of underlying metabolic issues/ glycogen stores. I started drinking coffee in high school, and for 10 years, it was practically breakfast. I WISH that I knew what I knew now about caffeine, because I am positive that my daily coffee was only exacerbating the increase in cortisol to supply my body with the sugar needed. After a year of experimenting, I have found that coffee speeds up my metabolism so much so, that even if I have 6 TBS of sugar with breakfast (in juice and cottage cheese), 1 cup of coffee will burn through that energy in less then 2 hours and I will get cold! While those 10 years probably wreaked havoc on my system, I will say that COFFEE is singly handedly responsible for saving my liver, because while coffee was breakfast, beer was lunch and dinner!

 

[miko]

I have read some books ("Caffeine and Activation Theory", "Coffee, Tea, Chocolate, and the Brain") and many studies about caffeine and HPA axis, sympathetic nervous system and brain blood flow. Here we go:

Caffeine have short half life, about 3-4 hours.

Caffeine is pro-dopaminergic, so it's good for your mood, energy, motivation etc. it's a little bit useful in Parkinson Disease (all pro dopaminergics are useful in this disease).

Caffeine blocks adenosine receptors, and it's causing neurotransmiters release, manily noradrenaline and adrenaline. Caffeine cause increase in CRH, ACTH release and cortisol. It's effects are doubled by stress (so caffeine+stress=much more ACTH and cortisol release). Caffeine is a stimulator of sympathetic nervous system (adrenaline release).

Caffeine decrease blood flow in brain. In 250mg (about 2 cups of coffee) it's decreasing it by 20-30%. Dr. Daniel Amen (psychiatrist) who did many of SPECT scans shows that higher doses of caffeine cause "dark spots" of decreased blood flow, mainly in prefrontal cortex.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... -mind.html

Many of studies about good health benefits of caffeine are sponsored by caffeine industry (it's big money machine).

And the most important: caffeine is addictive, so many people will be justify and defend it. It's understandable... but be aware of the risks of this substance. People are different, and many will be sensitive to it's pro-stress effects. I can see it from myself - when I drink coffee I have large sweaty spots underarms (sing of stress in my body).

But caffee taste so good :) choice is yours.

 

[Kasper]

Personally I find it hard to believe that caffeine is 100% good for your health. I don't think all the negatives of caffeine are crossed out if you eat enough sugar with it.

I don't know all scientific details about caffeine, but it effects to my body and my mind have many similarities to ritalin (methylphenidate) or speed (amphetamine).

 

[natedawggh]

This is all from Caffeine Blues and it's all backed up by science.

Lots of crap is backed up by science. Fish oil is backed up by science. Radioactive fallout from nuclear testing is backed up by science.

 

[Filip1993]

http://peatarian.com/42553/diary-of-a-coffee-addict
This thread is interesting.

 

[Kasper]

Lots of crap is backed up by science. Fish oil is backed up by science. Radioactive fallout from nuclear testing is backed up by science.

Wait, even Ray Peats view about caffeine is backed up with science !

One thing that to me sounds unhealthy about caffeine, is that you can't get a stable caffeine level 24hours/7. I think most people agree their is at least some adaptation to caffeine. If you get a lot of caffine and suddenly don't get any caffeine, you will feel worse than if you don't get any caffeine at all. I don't know exactly why, I guess your metabolism will then drop below your normal levels.

So, well, when you are sleeping, you have very long time, where you can't get caffeine, and right when your metabolism is already dropping, it will be even drop lower than your normal low levels, as you are adapted to caffeine. That doesn't sound healthy to me.

Some people may claim that you can sleep with caffeine, but I don't think people will get out of their bed to get a caffeine shot every 3 hours.

Something else, which is a little bit speculative, but if I hear or see Ray Peat talk in videos, I feel like there is something not completely healthy about him. I mean for his age he looks great, but sometimes there is some kind of nervousness that doesn't correlate with my image of being stress-free, maybe the effect of too much caffeine ?

 

[superhuman]

Kasper if you are functioning good you dont get bad symptoms of you suddenly dont drink coffee one day.

I can drink 2 liters of coffee one day and drink nothing the day after and i dont feel anything.
So please calm down all people

 

[Such_Saturation]

Ray Peat is simply evolving into a Starchild (this ia best seen in the trailer for the movie those two hipster guys are making ).