Maximise Your Free Testosterone Levels

[ddjd]

· DHT – reduces estrogen, increases free T:

is dht the same as 11 keto dht?

 

[ddjd]

· Zinc – pretty well known for its effects as a testosterone booster:

would copper lower test then? as it opposes zinc?

 

[Jsaute21]

High SHBG has protective effects, and low SHBG appears in male pattern baldness.

I have posted this before, but I got my hormones tested a year and a half ago, when i did not feel great. I was fasting and eating either 2 or 3 meals a day. My overall testosterone came back at 813, and free T was off the reference range high. I was following anabolic men principles at the time, and a lot of the folks on there were amazed by my results. The issues were that my libido, recovery, etc. were not ideal, and i did not feel great. Peat is so damn smart, and is the only person i could find that didn't recognize free T being a good thing. Based on my personal experience, he is right yet again.

 

[ddjd]

Also I never knew ray's opinion on SHBG , thanks Such-Saturation!

what is his opinion

 

[ddjd]

"Where he bolded the last part of the citation. So it seems he thinks SHBG should be as high as possible to keep estrogen out of cells, and that it actually enters cells when it is unloaded, unlike albumin. He doesn't say anything about androgens on SHBG but if he claims it's less lipophilic when loaded with estrogen, I don't see why he wouldn't say it becomes more lipophilic when it's loaded with androgens."

im sure i read @haidut comment that 'SHBG goes up and down together with estrogen.' is that also what rays saying?

 

[ddjd]

Total T is meaningless. 70% of my total T was unavailable. Have your doctor run an RIA testosterone test for free T. Another name for this test is the analog free T test.

i think ray and haidut say the opposite

“I think free T has a value as far as suggesting that SHBG was lowered. I think both free T and total T give useful information. Total T gives indication of gonadal function, while free T gives an idea of estrogenicity. If free T goes up, this suggests SHBG has gone down and since SHBG goes up and down together with estrogen, it suggests estrogen also went down. By estrogen, I mean total estrogenic reserves, as SHBG rises or falls to reflect systemic estrogenic tone, not only what's in the blood”
“you probably want as high total testosterone and as low free testosterone as possible.”

 

[ddjd]

but its high in iron

have a coffee with it?

 

[Such_Saturation]

what is his opinion

He says it basically protects you from estrogen by binding it, and testosterone can still enter the cell when it’s on SHBG so it is not a problem if SHBG is high. So I don’t really know why he says it blocks estrogen if it can still enter the cell. I think he says a carrier protein loaded with estrogen has different charge than one loaded with T, so it doesn’t enter cells.

 

[DaveFoster]

is that why everyone on trt is balding

Testosterone raises SHBG but often leads to a greater partition toward free testosterone, particularly in the context of bodybuilding.

Insulin lowers SHBG, and the bodybuilder diet that emphasizes starches and muscle meats increases insulin.

IGF-1 lowers insulin and raises SHBG, but growth hormone (GH) increases insulin and decreases SHBG.

Hypothyroidism upregulates aromatase, and testosterone can convert to estrogen; estrogen raises cortisol. Cortisol increases free testosterone.

Particularly bodybuilders who consume excess starches and goitrogenic broccoli with muscle meat (and whey), pump themselves full of GH and testosterone (on TRT without thyroid supplementation,) and who restrict their calories while taking caffeine (on an empty stomach in the morning) may prematurely bald. The dietary effects are probably secondary.

 

[ddjd]

I’ve been interested in maximizing testosterone levels naturally for a while now. In this post, I’ll cover how to increase one’s free testosterone in particular: free testosterone being bioactive is what really delivers the testosterones positive effects on muscle growth, fat loss and physical, mental energy levels.

There are 3 variables that we can manipulate to SAFELY increase free testosterone levels:

1)Increase it directly - use substances that increase it directly like DHT and magnesium (See below), also use substances that increase factors, that help keep free T high (such as natural 5-ar enhancers i.e. glycine)

2)Lower SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) and minimize factors that increase it - SHBG is a glycoprotein that binds to the two sex hormones: androgen and estrogen (androgen meaning testosterone in this case), rendering it inactive. Only a very small fraction of about 1-2% is unbound, or "free" (what we’re trying to increase here) and thus biologically active and able to enter a cell and activate its receptor.

3)Increase total testosterone levels – the higher our total testosterone levels, the higher free testosterone levels as, even though the percentage of free T may not change, the total amount of it will if we can maximize this variable. Regarding this point, along with substances that increase testosterone, we would also want to use safe and beneficial aromatase inhibitors and anti-estrogenic substances (Nettle root, vitamin E) as conversion to estrogen would reduce our total T levels (and our free T level as a chain reaction).


So, let’s look at some substances that fit the bill – some of these accomplish all three of our goals (i.e. raise free T, lower SHBG and raise total T):

Boron – often cited as a substance that can lower SHBG levels:
Comparative effects of daily and weekly boron supplementation on plasma steroid hormones and proinflammatory cytokines. - PubMed - NCBI - increased free T by 28%, estradiol decreased here as well and DHT was elevated

The significance of dietary boron, with particular reference to athletes. - PubMed - NCBI - increased T but also increased estradiol (CAREFUL) which makes it unclear whether boron increases or decreases estrogen. (might want to use with an AI, just to be safe)

The effect of boron supplementation on the distribution of boron in selected tissues and on testosterone synthesis in rats


· Magnesium – increases free testosterone(as well as blocks SHBG), here are some studies:

Effects of magnesium supplementation on testosterone levels of athletes and sedentary subjects at rest and after exhaustion. - PubMed - NCBI - raised free T levels by 24%

Magnesium and anabolic hormones in older men. - PubMed - NCBI

The Interplay between Magnesium and Testosterone in Modulating Physical Function in Men. - PubMed - NCBI

Magnesium effect on testosterone–SHBG association studied by a novel molecular chromatography approach - decreases SHBG


· Taurine – Raises testosterone in a pretty significant way:

CSD mRNA expression in rat testis and the effect of taurine on testosterone secretion. - PubMed - NCBI - normalised lowered T levels, as well as increased them significantly, in different settings, doubling them in some

Taurine enhances the sexual response and mating ability in aged male rats. - PubMed - NCBI - stimulated testosterone production in aged rats




· DHT – reduces estrogen, increases free T:

STUDIES ON THE TREATMENT OF IDIOPATHIC GYNAECOMASTIA WITH PERCUTANEOUS DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE - shows anti-gynecomastia effects as well

‘T + DHT/E2 ratio increased significantly (P < 0.02) to a normal mean value’

It does reduce circulating testosterone levels in studies but I expect DHT’s anti-e effects would mean that the FREE testosterone levels shouldn’t suffer that much.

As a sidenote, will probably do a seperate post on the various other benefits/beneficial actions of DHT: lowers estrogen, lowers prolactin, lowers serotonin, decreases symptoms of gynecomastia, reduces depression, improves spatial working memory, increases GABA, etc.

· Zinc – pretty well known for its effects as a testosterone booster:

The effect of exhaustion exercise on thyroid hormones and testosterone levels of elite athletes receiving oral zinc. - PubMed - NCBI

Effect of fatiguing bicycle exercise on thyroid hormone and testosterone levels in sedentary males supplemented with oral zinc. - PubMed - NCBI

Effect of zinc administration on plasma testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, and sperm count. - PubMed - NCBI - increases DHT

Impact of oral zinc therapy on the level of sex hormones in male patients on hemodialysis. - PubMed - NCBI

As a bonus, zinc is a prolactin inhibitor:

Zinc: an inhibitor of prolactin (PRL) secretion in humans. - PubMed - NCBI

Zinc acutely, selectively and reversibly inhibits pituitary prolactin secretion. - PubMed - NCBI


· Vitamin E – Acts as both, an estrogen receptor antagonist and an aromatase inhibitor, reduces estrogen levels:

Novel interactions of vitamin E and estrogen in breast cancer. - PubMed - NCBI

Is also a strong prolactin inhibitor on top of it: Effect of vitamin E therapy on sexual functions of uremic patients in hemodialysis. - PubMed - NCBI - decreased prolactin by 69% in the study.

Here’s Ray Peat’s article on it, where he discusses it’s anti-estrogenic effects:: Vitamin E: Estrogen antagonist, energy promoter, and anti-inflammatory



· Vitamin D – lowers SHBG, increases both free and total T:

Association of vitamin D status with serum androgen levels in men. - PubMed - NCBI - increases T, lowers SHBG

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21154195 - increased T

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18351428 - correlation between optimal vitamin D levls and higher testosterone levels.

Acts as an anti-estrogen:

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/en.2009-0855

https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/c...-reduced-estrogen-and-breast-cancer-risk.html


· Caffeine – raises testosterone:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22349085

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20737165

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18458357


As a bonus caffeine also has some nice (well documented) liver protective effects (will post a seperate thread sometime).


· Nettle root – Lowers SHBG, on top of being an aromatase inhibitor.

Here’s a study on it lowering SHBG: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7702715

Acts as an AI:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3074486/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16643058


· Tribulus terrestris – one of the most popular OTC testosterone and DHT boosters, studies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18068966 - from the study:

‘In primates, the increases in T (52%), DHT (31%) and DHEAS (29%) at 7.5mg/kg were statistically significant. In rabbits, both T and DHT were increased compared to control, however, only the increases in DHT (by 30% and 32% at 5 and 10mg/kg) were statistically significant. In castrated rats, increases in T levels by 51% and 25% were observed with T and TT extract respectively that were statistically significant.’

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23723641 - an increase in testosterone was noted (16.3%) but failed to reach statistical significance.


· Selenium – anti-estrogenic:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22128327

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16093440

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15833885

· Vitamin K2 – increases testosterone levels in several studies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21894328

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15763078 - effects on estrogen


· Glycine – Upregulates 5-alpha reductase activity, increasing DHT, so acting in the opposite direction as drugs like finasteride(which have anti-androgenic activity):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18367344


· DHEA – here are some articles on its testosterone increasing properties:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20863330 - increased T but also increased estrogen

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21789881 - again, increases in both T and E

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19321570 - same thing, T, E go up

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18029465 -same, that’s the reason I recommend to only take it with an aromatase inhibitor

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16804050 - DHEA + AI

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16487434

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14667889 - a decrease in SHBG

Other things that increase free testosterone levels: Fructose, resistance exercise, tongkat ali (can be estrogenic though), BCAA (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20300014), niacinamide, natural AIs (chrysin, naringenin, apigenin, etc.) and AI drugs (letrozole, exemestane, etc.), TRT.


Recommended books on the subject:

http://amzn.to/2iCsRYK

http://amzn.to/2iCp123

http://amzn.to/2i5p759


So if one were to build an experimental stack based on this research, it would look something like this:

Minerals:

Boron – 5-10mg/day, recommended brands: http://amzn.to/2iv4MUK, http://amzn.to/2iJJQZr

Magnesium – 400-600mg/day, recommended brands: http://amzn.to/2hx0HRA, http://amzn.to/2iv4k8S

Zinc – 25mg/day, http://amzn.to/2hA5xPn

Selenium – 200mcg/2-3x a week, http://amzn.to/2hRxOgu


Vitamins:

Vitamin E - 800 IU/day (Use mixed tocopherols instead of alpha tocopherol products)

Vitamin K2 - 5-10mg/day (Would have to use Thorne’s stuff to achieve milligram dosages)

Vitamin D – 2000-4000 IU/day, brand: http://amzn.to/2icCQqX

Amino – acids:

Taurine – 5g/day, http://amzn.to/2imzguS (cheap, well reviewed)

Glycine –10g/day, http://amzn.to/2iJLmKS

Hormones:

DHT – As far as I know it’s only available in cream form OTC, one can use creatine in it’s place though, combined with 5-ar enhancers (glycine), it should have the needed (similar) net effect. Here’s a study on creatine increasing DHT by 50%+: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19741313

DHEA – 15mg/day (Must use with an AI like Nettle root/vit E to minimize conversion to estrogen)


Herbs and other:

Caffeine – 500mg/day (Can use caffeine capsules or just drink 4-5 cups of coffee)

Nettle root – 500-750 mg/day, http://amzn.to/2icKX73

Tribulus Terrestris – 500 mg/day (Again, use only with an AI, as it can be estrogenic, the OPPOSITE of what we want)


As you can see, the dosages I ‘recommend’ are quite high for some things (though some of the studies used even higher) , hence the word ‘experimental’. My recommendation is to do this as a test/loading phase only for a month or two(watch for effects and STOP, if they’re negative) and then cut all the recommended dosages in half for maintenance, with the exception of magnesium (400mg/day is a pretty standard dose). One also realistically wouldn’t use EVERYTHING on this list at once (though I can’t think of a reason why you couldn’t, theoretically).

what do you say about this post from haidut, that DHT can actually lower Testosterone:

"The strong androgens are known to lower T when taken in higher doses. Human studies with DHT and oxandrolone (synthetic DHT) showed that as little as 5mg-10mg daily led to ~40% drop in T levels. I would check DHT and cortisol as these are two of the primary factors that influence T synthesis.
This is one reason androsterone is often paired with Pansterone or CortiNon - to offset some of that inhibitory effect of strong androgens"

 

[ddjd]

I have posted this before, but I got my hormones tested a year and a half ago, when i did not feel great. I was fasting and eating either 2 or 3 meals a day. My overall testosterone came back at 813, and free T was off the reference range high. I was following anabolic men principles at the time, and a lot of the folks on there were amazed by my results. The issues were that my libido, recovery, etc. were not ideal, and i did not feel great. Peat is so damn smart, and is the only person i could find that didn't recognize free T being a good thing. Based on my personal experience, he is right yet again.

what was your estrogen at? I suspect its the ratio of testosterone to estrogen that matters more rather than actual amounts of testosterone. If youve got very high total T but also very high estrogen you're going to feel crap surely?

 

[Jsaute21]

what was your estrogen at? I suspect its the ratio of testosterone to estrogen that matters more rather than actual amounts of testosterone. If youve got very high total T but also very high estrogen you're going to feel crap surely?

My estrogen was slightly below reference range. Very low.

 

[schultz]

I remember caffeine can increase SHBG? Also, Ray Peat thinks that carrier proteins can enter cells, and doesn't believe in free blood measurements.

He doesn't say anything about androgens on SHBG but if he claims it's less lipophilic when loaded with estrogen, I don't see why he wouldn't say it becomes more lipophilic when it's loaded with androgens.

This quote sort of gives us a hint as to what the difference between estrogen and some of the other steroids might be in regards to being free and bound.

"In the case of oil soluble molecules, such as progesterone and estrogen, it’s important to explain that most of their “binding” to proteins or other oil-loving molecules is really the nearly passive consequence of the molecules’ being forced away from the watery phase--they are hydrophobic, and although it would take a great amount of energy to make these insoluble substances enter the watery phase, the attractive force between them and the cell is usually small. This means that they can be freely mobile, while “bound” or concentrated within the cell. The oxygen atoms, and especially the phenolic group of estrogen, slightly reduce the hormones’ affinity for simple oils, but they interact with other polar or aromatic groups, giving estrogen the ability to bind more strongly and specifically with some proteins and other molecules. Enzymes which catalyze estrogen’s oxidation-reduction actions are among the specific estrogen-binding proteins."

Peat is so damn smart, and is the only person i could find that didn't recognize free T being a good thing. Based on my personal experience, he is right yet again

Ray almost talks about free hormones as if they are a laboratory construct. If testosterone is insoluble in water, then how is it that there is unbound "free" testosterone floating around in the watery environment of the plasma? I suppose the obvious answer is that it must be bound to something, which leads one to wonder what labs are measuring when they are measuring "free" hormones?

"If Brown-Séquard’s extract couldn’t work because testosterone isn’t soluble in water, then what are we to think of the thousands of medical publications that talk about “free hormones” as the only active hormones? (“Free hormone” is defined as the hormone that isn’t bound to a transporting protein, with the more or less explicit idea that it is dissolved in the water of the plasma or extracellular fluid.) Brown-Séquard’s tissue extracts would have contained solublizing substances including proteins and phospholipids, so the oily hormones would certainly be present (and active) in his extracts. But the thousands of people who ridiculed him committed themselves to the fact that steroid hormones are insoluble in water. By their own standard, they are selling an impossibility when they do calculations to reveal the amount of “free hormone,” as something distinct from the protein bound hormone, in the patient’s blood."

"At first, it was assumed that the amount of the hormone in the blood corresponded to the effectiveness of that hormone. Whatever was in the blood was being delivered to the “target tissues.” But as the idea of measuring “protein bound iodine” (PBI) to determine thyroid function came into disrepute (because it never had a scientific basis at all), new ideas of measuring “active hormones” came into the marketplace, and currently the doctrine is that the “bound” hormones are inactive, and the active hormones are “free.” The “free” hormones are supposed to be the only ones that can get into the cells to deliver their signals, but the problem is that “free hormones” exist only in the imagination of people who interpret certain lab tests, as I discussed in the newsletter on thyroid tests (May, 2000)."

"The tests done in the lab that are called free progesterone or free estrogen are really done by dialysis which means that the hormone which is bound to a protein is able to pass through a membrane which is usually a protein membrane and is picked up on the other side by something which also is not in the watery phase, an antibody for example or other protein. So freedom is purely a metaphysical idea." (From East/West audio "Estrogen vs Progesterone")

"The membrane doctrine led directly to the “free hormone” doctrine."


Danny Roddy posted this on his Facebook. It's from a private e-mail exchange between Ray and some other individual:

“The free/total ratio explains it. The traditional thinking of masculinity as the cause of baldness causes them to focus on "free testosterone" as a cause of masculinity. Looking at the whole organism, when the liver isn't functioning well because of stress, it doesn't make enough of the steroid binding (transporting) globulin. The liver and the baldness and the metabolic syndrome should be the focus.”


I think a lot of us (including myself! most definitely... ) need to go back and re-read Ray's articles. Things are not as simple as we would like to think they are.

 

[Repas du soir]

Epsom Salt baths with baking soda added or foot soaks are a good way to get magnesium. As long as you dont submerge your gens in hot water. I do 30+ min foot soaks almost every night.

Why the added baking soda? How much epsom salt do you use?

 

[tca300]

Why the added baking soda? How much epsom salt do you use?

Ray recommends adding baking soda to epsom salts, Im not certain why. I use pure epsom salt from a typical grocery store, but I mostly use magnesium bicarbonate.

 

[Wilfrid]

@tca300, from " Nutrition for women ":

" Since carbon dioxide dissolves best in "oil loving" material such as the skin, it enters the body even against a concentration gradient. Adding baking soda to an epsom salts soak should make it more effective. "

 

[tca300]

@tca300, from " Nutrition for women ":

" Since carbon dioxide dissolves best in "oil loving" material such as the skin, it enters the body even against a concentration gradient. Adding baking soda to an epsom salts soak should make it more effective. "

Awesome! Thanks!

 

[Repas du soir]

@tca300, from " Nutrition for women ":

" Since carbon dioxide dissolves best in "oil loving" material such as the skin, it enters the body even against a concentration gradient. Adding baking soda to an epsom salts soak should make it more effective. "

Putting magnesium chloride dissolved in water (magnesium oil) on my legs didn't have much of an effect on me, so I started putting it under my armpits. This made me notice the effect a bit more, but it would itch. Just now I tried baking soda together with the magnesium oil, and the effect is much stronger and no longer itches.

 

[michael94]

This quote sort of gives us a hint as to what the difference between estrogen and some of the other steroids might be in regards to being free and bound.

"In the case of oil soluble molecules, such as progesterone and estrogen, it’s important to explain that most of their “binding” to proteins or other oil-loving molecules is really the nearly passive consequence of the molecules’ being forced away from the watery phase--they are hydrophobic, and although it would take a great amount of energy to make these insoluble substances enter the watery phase, the attractive force between them and the cell is usually small. This means that they can be freely mobile, while “bound” or concentrated within the cell. The oxygen atoms, and especially the phenolic group of estrogen, slightly reduce the hormones’ affinity for simple oils, but they interact with other polar or aromatic groups, giving estrogen the ability to bind more strongly and specifically with some proteins and other molecules. Enzymes which catalyze estrogen’s oxidation-reduction actions are among the specific estrogen-binding proteins."



Ray almost talks about free hormones as if they are a laboratory construct. If testosterone is insoluble in water, then how is it that there is unbound "free" testosterone floating around in the watery environment of the plasma? I suppose the obvious answer is that it must be bound to something, which leads one to wonder what labs are measuring when they are measuring "free" hormones?

"If Brown-Séquard’s extract couldn’t work because testosterone isn’t soluble in water, then what are we to think of the thousands of medical publications that talk about “free hormones” as the only active hormones? (“Free hormone” is defined as the hormone that isn’t bound to a transporting protein, with the more or less explicit idea that it is dissolved in the water of the plasma or extracellular fluid.) Brown-Séquard’s tissue extracts would have contained solublizing substances including proteins and phospholipids, so the oily hormones would certainly be present (and active) in his extracts. But the thousands of people who ridiculed him committed themselves to the fact that steroid hormones are insoluble in water. By their own standard, they are selling an impossibility when they do calculations to reveal the amount of “free hormone,” as something distinct from the protein bound hormone, in the patient’s blood."

"At first, it was assumed that the amount of the hormone in the blood corresponded to the effectiveness of that hormone. Whatever was in the blood was being delivered to the “target tissues.” But as the idea of measuring “protein bound iodine” (PBI) to determine thyroid function came into disrepute (because it never had a scientific basis at all), new ideas of measuring “active hormones” came into the marketplace, and currently the doctrine is that the “bound” hormones are inactive, and the active hormones are “free.” The “free” hormones are supposed to be the only ones that can get into the cells to deliver their signals, but the problem is that “free hormones” exist only in the imagination of people who interpret certain lab tests, as I discussed in the newsletter on thyroid tests (May, 2000)."

"The tests done in the lab that are called free progesterone or free estrogen are really done by dialysis which means that the hormone which is bound to a protein is able to pass through a membrane which is usually a protein membrane and is picked up on the other side by something which also is not in the watery phase, an antibody for example or other protein. So freedom is purely a metaphysical idea." (From East/West audio "Estrogen vs Progesterone")

"The membrane doctrine led directly to the “free hormone” doctrine."


Danny Roddy posted this on his Facebook. It's from a private e-mail exchange between Ray and some other individual:

“The free/total ratio explains it. The traditional thinking of masculinity as the cause of baldness causes them to focus on "free testosterone" as a cause of masculinity. Looking at the whole organism, when the liver isn't functioning well because of stress, it doesn't make enough of the steroid binding (transporting) globulin. The liver and the baldness and the metabolic syndrome should be the focus.”


I think a lot of us (including myself! most definitely... ) need to go back and re-read Ray's articles. Things are not as simple as we would like to think they are.

I found ray peat because of the forum not the other way around, so I never actually never read his articles much out of laziness and just read what people posted here mostly plus tidbits of kmud audio

 

[jet9]

I get mine from an herbalist, but there are excellent products on the market. Many prostate formulas have it, but I don't use the other ingredients like palmetto. And yes I do routine bloodwork. More than most for sure.

What dosages do you use and how often?