Why Does Soy Reduce Estrogen Levels In Studies?

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matisvijs

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Soy is widely known in health circles as pro-estrogenic and feminizing and men are recommended to avoid it. If that’s actually the case, can anyone explain why serum estrogen levels actually decrease in soy-supplemented groups in studies in both men and women? And why is there an inverse relationship between hormone dependent cancers such as breast and prostate cancer (I suppose all cancers are hormone dependent) and soy consumption? Here are just some of the studies I’m talking about:

Effects of soya consumption for one month on steroid hormones in premenopausal women: implications for breast cancer risk reduction. - PubMed - NCBI - 36-oz of daily soymilk consumption for a month significantly decreased serum 17 beta-estradiol levels in premenopausal women.

Effect of soymilk consumption on serum estrogen concentrations in premenopausal Japanese women. - PubMed - NCBI - Estrone and estradiol levels were decreased by 23% and 27% at the end of the study in the soy milk supplemented group in Japanese women. The change in estrone and estradiol levels was minor in the control, non-soy group.

Effect of soymilk consumption on serum estrogen and androgen concentrations in Japanese men. - PubMed - NCBI - Serum estrone concentrations decreased in the soy-supplemented group in Japanese men. There was no change in testosterone levels in both the soy group and the control group.

Is it that the estrogen circulation in blood decreases from soy but estrogen level inside the cell increases? Is that why soy is so widely considered as ‘estrogenic’?
 

Constatine

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Interesting...to my knowledge soy has estrogenic compounds (act directly on the receptors). Lowering of serum estrogen could be a negative feedback loop.
 
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matisvijs

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Interesting...to my knowledge soy has estrogenic compounds (act directly on the receptors). Lowering of serum estrogen could be a negative feedback loop.

Yeah, soy has phytoestrogens in it like genistein. As far as I know the mainstream scientific opinion is that they bind to the estrogen 'receptor', not allowing estrogen itself to 'bind' to it's receptors, rendering estrogen inactive and reducing it's levels (Supposedly act the same way as Estrogen Receptor Modulators). The thing I'm wondering though is whether, similar as with female menopause, estrogen levels in the serum drop but the actual cellular estrogen level may go up?
 
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jitsmonkey

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Its also plausible that it increases tissue bound estrogen which in turn would lower serum estrogen.
 

Ritchie

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So basically it seems that soy is quite a powerful estrogen antagonist? Due to the fact that phytoestrogens (plant estrogens) are a fraction of the strength of normal estrogen, and if they bind to the "receptors" they essentially prevent normal (mammalian/human) estrogen from having any effect.. Am I understanding that correctly?
 

mujuro

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So basically it seems that soy is quite a powerful estrogen antagonist? Due to the fact that phytoestrogens (plant estrogens) are a fraction of the strength of normal estrogen, and if they bind to the "receptors" they essentially prevent normal (mammalian/human) estrogen from having any effect.. Am I understanding that correctly?

They are SERMs. So you would get agonism and antagonism in selective tissues e.g. tamoxifen is used for breast cancer but increases risk of endometrium cancer.
 
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matisvijs

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So basically it seems that soy is quite a powerful estrogen antagonist? Due to the fact that phytoestrogens (plant estrogens) are a fraction of the strength of normal estrogen, and if they bind to the "receptors" they essentially prevent normal (mammalian/human) estrogen from having any effect.. Am I understanding that correctly?

Correct, or that's what the mainstream view on that is.
 

EndAllDisease

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They are SERMs. So you would get agonism and antagonism in selective tissues
That's an interesting thought. It's hard for me to imagine how that would even be possible. How could something be both estrogenic and non-estrogenic?

There's another possibility that people that should not go unmentioned in this thread...

And that is the possibility that the estrogen industry is fraudulently funding scientists to fabricate evidence that's contrary to the truth in order to confuse the issue so they can maintain and even increase their profits. I think this is likely what's going on here.

In 2006 the cigarette industry was found guilty in US federal court of conspiracy, fraud and racketeering for lying to the public about the safety of their products for more than half a century. When money is the end goal of a world containing 7 billion people, conspiracy will be everywhere, as it is.
 

lvysaur

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The reason is because most of the condemnation of soy comes from emotional associations.

Soy is associated with vegan meat substitutes, and veganism is perceived as a feminine, non-violent practice. Soy is also a foreign ingredient, so it was never a big part of most westerners' diets, making it easy to avoid. It is also East Asian, which is culturally seen as "feminine" by westerners.

The same could be said of milk in terms of estrogen content and even PR--after all, milk is for cute little babies.

I don't eat a lot of soy but I don't avoid it, and I notice no ill effects when I consume it (via miso or soy sauce).
 

Arrade

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Also, I wonder if it does anything to DHT? Remember, if it binds to estrogen receptors it is outcompeting estradiol and DHT
 

Aaron

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Soy, like flax, does produce feminizing effects via stimulation of the estrogen receptors, which results in the body slightly decreasing endogenous estrogen because soy acts like mild HRT. Thermograms show increases in heat and vasculature in breast tissue, and multiple studies show increased uterine weight, which is the gold standard measurement for ER stimulation, although its SERM-like qualities complicate things. The better studies out there also show increased breast density, particularly in premenopausal women. There is absolutely no question that soy is feminizing and adds estrogen load to the body.

However, soy is disproportionately demonized since other phytoestrogens (hops, mint, tea tree, lavender, cannabis) can have much more powerful and deleterious effects.
So basically it seems that soy is quite a powerful estrogen antagonist? Due to the fact that phytoestrogens (plant estrogens) are a fraction of the strength of normal estrogen, and if they bind to the "receptors" they essentially prevent normal (mammalian/human) estrogen from having any effect.. Am I understanding that correctly?
This is far from being the scientific consensus. If anything they stimulate the growth of healthy breast tissue, which helps tamoxifen do its job (targeting unhealthy breast tissue instead because the soy is docked in the healthy ER receptors). Epidemiological studies correlating soy with protection from ER+ cancers ate flawed. Tamoxifen also has mixed agonist/antagonist effects of its own, but unlike soy it decreases the density of all breast tissue. My theory is that the increased vasculature from soy helps deliver the tamoxifen to the site and the increased cellular metablism allows tamoxifen to destroy the cancerous tissue more quickly.
 
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Soy, like flax, does produce feminizing effects via stimulation of the estrogen receptors, which results in the body slightly decreasing endogenous estrogen because soy acts like mild HRT. Thermograms show increases in heat and vasculature in breast tissue, and multiple studies show increased uterine weight, which is the gold standard measurement for ER stimulation, although its SERM-like qualities complicate things. The better studies out there also show increased breast density, particularly in premenopausal women. There is absolutely no question that soy is feminizing and adds estrogen load to the body.

However, soy is disproportionately demonized since other phytoestrogens (hops, mint, tea tree, lavender, cannabis) can have much more powerful and deleterious effects.

This is far from being the scientific consensus. If anything they stimulate the growth of healthy breast tissue, which helps tamoxifen do its job (targeting unhealthy breast tissue instead because the soy is docked in the healthy ER receptors). Epidemiological studies correlating soy with protection from ER+ cancers ate flawed. Tamoxifen also has mixed agonist/antagonist effects of its own, but unlike soy it decreases the density of all breast tissue. My theory is that the increased vasculature from soy helps deliver the tamoxifen to the site and the increased cellular metablism allows tamoxifen to destroy the cancerous tissue more quickly.

Is mint estrogenic?
 

Aymen

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not only soy , i just saw some studies that phytoestrogens act as aromatase inhibotors .
so soy isoflavone , flax seeds , beans contains phytoestrogens.
they inhibit 5alpha reductase too .
just putting the title of the study :
"Isoflavone supplements stimulated the production of serum equol and decreased the serum dihydrotestosterone levels in healthy male volunteers"
 

LucyL

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According to the late Nicholas Gonzalez, soy contains one of the most potent natural trypsin inhibitors known. Trypsin, he said, is the most effective extract of pancreatic enzymes for slowing tumor growth.

I haven't unpacked all that from a Peat perspective, but I found it interesting that Gonzalez wouldn't let his patients use soy at all.
 

Andy316

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According to the late Nicholas Gonzalez, soy contains one of the most potent natural trypsin inhibitors known. Trypsin, he said, is the most effective extract of pancreatic enzymes for slowing tumor growth.
@LucyL Are there any pro Trypsin foods?
 

LadyRae

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@LucyL Are there any pro Trypsin foods?
Kiwi, ginger, asparagus, fermented foods. It's a proteolytic enzyme and so you can also find it in pineapple, yogurt. Apparently soy and grains and some beans destroy it....

I read through this thread because I have really been wanting to switch to soy yogurt. Ever since I was a small child I have not been able to tolerate dairy products, and although the coconut milk yogurts are okay, they are really watery.

I wonder if the fermented aspect of the yogurt would be helpful..

Before I learned about polyunsaturated fats, I used to consume a couple tablespoons of ground flax in my food everyday and I always felt amazing from this...🤷
 

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