Vitamin B1 (thiamine) And Testosterone Can Cure Liver Cirrhosis

haidut

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These studies should be quite embarrassing for the organ transplant industry, especially given the other published studies showing saturated fat and caffeine also being capable of reversing even advanced liver fibrosis.

[ON 2 CASES OF ASCITES DUE TO HEPATIC CIRRHOSIS IN SUBJECTS OPERATED ON BY SPLENECTOMY AND PRESENTING PORTA OBLITERATION--CLINICAL RECOVERY FOLLOWI... - PubMed - NCBI
[Possible clinical cure in a high percentage of cases of liver cirrhosis with a treatment based on high doses of testosterone and vitamin B 1 ]. - PubMed - NCBI
[THERAPY OF LIVER CIRRHOSIS WITH TESTOSTERONE AND VITAMIN B 1]. - PubMed - NCBI
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"...A therapeutic regimen for hepatic cirrhosis based on administration of large doses of testosterone propionate plus thiamine has led to “clinical cure” in 60 per cent of 700 cases. Clinical signs of the disease have disappeared and biochemical values have returned to normal. Therapy is continued at least three years after clinical symptoms disappear. The rationale of this method of treatment includes the theory that a deficiency of hyaluronidase activity in the liver may be responsible for the enormous growth of connective tissue."


The author details the treatment protocol in the last study as follows:
"...The essential point of our method of treatment is the intramuscular administration of large doses of testosterone (50 to 100 mg. daily or every other day) and of thiamine (50 mg. two or three times a week) . All the androgenic hormones and testosterone derivatives have anticirrhotic activity. We have had the best results with testosterone propionate. We have adopted the following treatment, which can be modified in individual cases:

1) First and second weeks: 50 mg. of testosterone propionate every other day; 100 mg. of thiamine twice a week.
2) Third and fourth weeks: 50 mg. of testosterone propionate every day; 100 mg. of thiamine twice a week.
3) Fifth and sixth weeks: 100 mg. of testosterone propionate every other day; 50 mg. of thiamine twice a week.
4) Seventh and eighth weeks: 100 mg. of testosterone propionate every day; 50 mg. of thiamine twice a week.
5) Ninth and tenth weeks: 100 mg. of testosterone propionate every other day; 50 mg. of thiamine twice a week.

In succeeding weeks, 100 mg. of testosterone propionate is given intramuscularly every day for two weeks and then every other day for two weeks. This four week cycle is repeated thereafter. Thiamine (50 mg. intramuscularly twice a week) should be continued for the duration of the treatment period. To prevent virilism in women as much as possible, one can, after the control of ascites, use a testosterone product with limited masculinizing effect such as androstanolone propionate. Dosage is the same as that suggested for testosterone propionate. Usually we also give estrone and progesterone parenterally in moderate doses for two or three months."

So, several good news and one interesting note. First, the testosterone doses, while high are nothing compared to what bodybuilders usually inject with during a "cycle" and endure little to no ill effects. Second, the thiamine doses are also quite moderate and can easily be achieved with oral supplementation of the same dose given that oral thiamine achieves the same concentrations as an equivalent IV dose provide the oral thiamine is taken for at least 7 days.
Finally, the author makes the observation and suggestion that in women a less virilizing steroid that can achieve the same benefits as T is none other than DHT (androstanolone). Why the author thinks DHT is less masculinizing than T is a mystery to me but I suspect he has a point.
I also think that using DHT instead of T would be an even better therapy for cirrhosis. Large doses of T as given in the study, will almost certainly lead to some aromatization especially considering the compromised liver function of the patients. As such, using T will unnecessarily increase the estrogenic burden and slow down the recovery. Using DHT in the same doses as T (as the author suggested) should be a much safer approach. Finally, the author also mentions adding progesterone and estrone for additional benefit. Barring the estrone suggestion, the study once again leads us to the two steroids that I have mentioned many times as worth optimizing - progesterone and DHT.
Anyways, there you have it. I several month course or T (or preferably DHT) and moderate dose oral thiamine can achieve complete cure in the majority of the patients. For people who do not have access to T or DHT, taking smaller doses DHEA and especially topically (and dissolved in DMSO) as in Pansterone should be able to provide a viable (and legal) alternative. The thiamine is dirt cheap and can be obtained for pennies from any grocery store.
 

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I think there might be hope for one of those but sci hub is very slow right now...
 

aguilaroja

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The link to Girolami article in 1964 Post Grad medicine did not render accurately on (my) browser linking. Here is the PubMed citation:
MEDICAL MANAGEMENT OF CIRRHOSIS OF THE LIVER. - PubMed - NCBI

(sadly lacking the abstract quoted by Haidut and found on the publisher's site):
Medical Management of Cirrhosis of the Liver
Mario Girolami M.D.
Journal: Postgraduate MedicineVolume 35, Issue 1, January 1964, pages 87-101

The first page of an earlier Girolami article is attached.

Treatment of ascitic atrophic cirrhosis of the liver with high dosages of testosterone propionate. - PubMed - NCBI
Treatment of ascitic atrophic cirrhosis of the liver with high dosages of testosterone propionate.
GIROLAMI M.
J Am Geriatr Soc. 1958 Apr;6(4):306-23.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/stor...=1&s=01c9ed3dcf35fe6b05fe4e9db6f3ad1f2eed599c

These studies should be quite embarrassing for the organ transplant industry, especially given the other published studies showing saturated fat and caffeine also being capable of reversing even advanced liver fibrosis....

[ON 2 CASES OF ASCITES DUE TO HEPATIC CIRRHOSIS IN SUBJECTS OPERATED ON BY SPLENECTOMY AND PRESENTING PORTA OBLITERATION--CLINICAL RECOVERY FOLLOWI... - PubMed - NCBI
[Possible clinical cure in a high percentage of cases of liver cirrhosis with a treatment based on high doses of testosterone and vitamin B 1 ]. - PubMed - NCBI
[THERAPY OF LIVER CIRRHOSIS WITH TESTOSTERONE AND VITAMIN B 1]. - PubMed - NCBI
An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

"...A therapeutic regimen for hepatic cirrhosis based on administration of large doses of testosterone propionate plus thiamine has led to “clinical cure” in 60 per cent of 700 cases. Clinical signs of the disease have disappeared and biochemical values have returned to normal. Therapy is continued at least three years after clinical symptoms disappear. The rationale of this method of treatment includes the theory that a deficiency of hyaluronidase activity in the liver may be responsible for the enormous growth of connective tissue."
 

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aguilaroja

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...other published studies showing saturated fat and caffeine also being capable of reversing even advanced liver fibrosis.

This 2010 study by Tanaka may be somewhat supportive. It is only an animal research finding. The improvement happens in the "special" circumstance of impaired glucose and fat metabolism. Thiamine relieves excess fat accumulation, fibrosis and impaired micro-circulation in the liver.
Thiamine prevents obesity and obesity-associated metabolic disorders in OLETF rats. - PubMed - NCBI
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jnsv/56/6/56_6_335/_pdf
Thiamine prevents obesity and obesity-associated metabolic disorders in OLETF rats.
Tanaka T, Kono T, Terasaki F, Yasui K, Soyama A, Otsuka K, Fujita S, Yamane K, Manabe M, Usui K, Kohda Y.
J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 2010;56(6):335-46.
"Thiamine intervention averted obesity and prevented metabolic disorders in OLETF rats which accompanied mitigation of reduced lipid oxidation and increased hepatic PDH activity
....thiamine alleviated adipocyte hypertrophy, steatosis in the liver, heart, and skeletal muscle, sinusoidal fibrosis with formation of basement membranes (called pseudocapillarization)...."
 
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haidut

haidut

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I just wanted to let everybody know that I was able to find the full study and I updated my original post with the protocol and some interesting observations. So, @aguilaroja and @Such_Saturation - I'd appreciate some comments, if you have them. I think the recommended use of DHT in women is especially interesting as I have seen first-hand women recover from osteoporotic fractures in just 1 week after "accidentally" ingesting DHEA and DHT. So, maybe just like progesterone not being a pure female hormone DHT is also not a pure male hormone either. It's the balance of both that determines if an organism is male or female but both are quite crucial for the health of either sex.
 
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Very interesting. 60% of cases showed no signs of anything at all? I would think that at least the shape of the liver would be compromised...
 
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haidut

haidut

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Very interesting. 60% of cases showed no signs of anything at all? I would think that at least the shape of the liver would be compromised...

That's the part that really struck me. But the guy did several large scale studies like that, involving close to 5,000 people. If it was a fraud it would have been noticed I think.
 
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That's the part that really struck me. But the guy did several large scale studies like that, involving close to 5,000 people. If it was a fraud it would have been noticed I think.

Cool. Would this imply that fibrosis has the same mechanism? Let me know if you need translation of the one in Italian.
 
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haidut

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Cool. Would this imply that fibrosis has the same mechanism? Let me know if you need translation of the one in Italian.

Well, in the study he says that his proposed mechanism of fibrosis is decreased availability of hyaluronic acid. I don't know if that is true, bu I can tell you that T and especially DHT are potent inhibitors of TPH and as such powerfully decrease serotonin levels. Given serotonin's role in fibrosis and recent news of drugs like terguride and ritanserin reversing liver and heart fibrosis I think the Italian doctor simply did not know at the time about the additional effects of T and thiamine (i.e. lowering serotonin). Thiamine (and riboflavin) are crucial for estrogen detox by the liver so the improved estrogen handling can be another unanticipated mechanism of action.
If you found the full article in Italian it would help to see if he actually used DHT in that study.
 

moriwatzi

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Large doses of T as given in the study, will almost certainly lead to some aromatization especially considering the compromised liver function of the patients. As such, using T will unnecessarily increase the estrogenic burden and slow down the recovery.

I'm having some cognitive dissonance. Totally agree with @haidut on the increased aromatization these patients must have encountered. But how could this intervention have produced these positive effects INSPITE of sky high estrogen? The little B1 is not enough to counter estrogen to that extent IMO.
 
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Hey @Such_Saturation I found something for you ;-) Mario Girolami book Testosterone e Patologia Epatica, with more than 200 pages :pompous:

http://www.casinapioiv.va/content/dam/accademia/pdf/sv21pas.pdf

Lol they are pretty woke, already at page 11 they are saying "spironolactone fixates on the cell instead of aldosterone" instead of saying it's a "receptor antagonist". Old terminology (or lack thereof) was more humble and conducive to truth I guess. Are there parts you are especially interested in?
 
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haidut

haidut

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I'm having some cognitive dissonance. Totally agree with @haidut on the increased aromatization these patients must have encountered. But how could this intervention have produced these positive effects INSPITE of sky high estrogen? The little B1 is not enough to counter estrogen to that extent IMO.

It's about the overall effect. If your E levels go up but T levels also go up then the net effect could be very beneficial. Before treatment, E levels were likely very high and T levels low. It is a very common clinical picture - people with liver disease have high estrogen and hypogonadism (low T). I am just saying that DHT would be even better as the study itself suggested.
 
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haidut

haidut

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Not specifically. But I trust in your taste in these matters ;-)



Does this also imply that things like Gynecomastia are more a problem of estrogen / testosterone ration than a certain estrogen level in itself?

Gynecomastia is primarily a pituitary problem, combined with high cortisol/estrogen. That is why drugs like bromocriptine can treat it. Search the forum for "gynecomastia cortisol estrogen".
 

Antonello

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@haidut can we replicate this study using ideal labs androsterone and thiamine hcl?
some people mentioned active thiamine pyrophosphate.
Haidut do you think is better of the classic for hcl?
In lot of studies that you posted about thiamine you mention that orally can efficiently match the intravenous but you also sell energin and the recommend the topical route.
Please can you clarify my thoughts?
 
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