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Thiamine (B1) Reverses Parkinson Disease In Humans

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Oct 29, 2015.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    I think this is the first human study showing such profound effect as a result of thiamine administration. Thiamine dose was 100mg administered by injection twice a week, and positive effects were evident after only 3 months of administration.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26505466

    "RESULTS: Thiamine treatment led to significant improvement of motor and nonmotor symptoms: mean UPDRS scores (parts I-IV) improved from 38.55 ± 15.24 to 18.16 ± 15.08 (p = 2.4 × 10-14, t test for paired data) within 3 months and remained stable over time; motor UPDRS part III score improved from 22.01 ± 8.57 to 9.92 ± 8.66 (p = 3.1 × 10-22). Some patients with a milder phenotype had complete clinical recovery. FSS scores, in six patients who had fatigue, improved from 53.00 ± 8.17 to 23.60 ± 7.77 (p < 0.0001, t test for paired data). Follow-up duration ranged from 95 to 831 days (mean, 291.6 ± 207.2 days)."

    "CONCLUSIONS: Administration of parenteral high-dose thiamine was effective in reversing PD motor and nonmotor symptoms. The clinical improvement was stable over time in all the patients. From our clinical evidence, we hypothesize that a dysfunction of thiamine-dependent metabolic processes could cause selective neural damage in the centers typically affected by this disease and might be a fundamental molecular event provoking neurodegeneration. Thiamine could have both restorative and neuroprotective action in PD."


    Since most people would not have easy access to thiamine injections, an alternative is oral allithiamine. It achieves the same concentrations (and cellular activity) through oral administration as IV or IM thiamine Hcl. So, oral allithiamine at a dose of just 100mg twice a week should be able to replicate the results of this study.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/978282

    "...Oral administration of lipid-soluble allithiamines [thiamine propyl disulfide (TPD) and thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide (TTHF)] rapidly increased thiamine activity in whole blood, red blood cells, cerebrospinal fluid, and urine in normal and thiamine-deficient subjects. These thiamine congeners also restored red blood cell transketolase to normal in alcoholics with thiamine deficiency. Such repletion equaled that produced by parenteral, water-soluble thiamine hydrochloride (THCl) or thiamine pyrophosphate (TPP). Oral administration of water-soluble thiamines (THCl, TPP) neither elevated thiamine activity in biological fluids nor restored transketolase activity to normal in alcoholics with thiamine deficiency presumably due to their rate-limited intestinal transport. Oral administration of TPD eliminated lateral rectus palsy in patients with Wernicke's encephalopathy. Orally administered allithiamine vitamers are therefore recommended for prophylaxis and treatment of thiamine deficits because while having essentially the same biological properties as parenterally administered water-soluble thiamines they have not produced any untoward effects after long-term administration and are far more efficiently utilized."
     
  2. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Incredible.

    :hattip
     
  3. Sheila

    Sheila Member

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    Dear Haidut
    This is good to know as a friend of mine with PD had no response to 600mg thiamine in divided doses after 6 weeks and I was somewhat disappointed for him.
    Maybe that just wasn't sufficient. There is definitely not iron overload in this person, I have double checked the full panel for that.
    The aetiology of his disease state is however entirely consistent with Dr Peat's comments on this dysfunction and his diet is much more balanced so I was hopeful of some changes.
    I will see if I can source some Allithiamine and try that, and also get him to discuss the research with his Dr in case parenteral injection is also an option.
    Thank you again for the time you spend updating us all.
    Sheila
     
  4. Agent207

    Agent207 Member

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    What are good food sources to get thiamine enough from diet?
     
  5. lexis

    lexis Member

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    How about taking garlic capsules?
     
  6. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    None of the dietary sources will give you anything close to the dose used in the study. I guess garlic is one good food source of allithiamine.
     
  7. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    A better approach will be to take allicin or garlic capsules with regular thiamine. In the gut some of it will combine to form allithiamine. Still, probably not going to reach the doses used in the study but for prevention it may work.
     
  8. Sheila

    Sheila Member

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    It is my experience that high dose thiamine (so 900mg divided doses, daily) down to 300mg across the day can cause problems with those who have lowered kidney function. It seems to promote uric acid build up in those people and whilst uric acid is an 'antioxidant' and may have benefit elsewhere, the presentation as gout is rather painful and undesirable. I have not seen this result in those with PD,and my experiments continue with allithiamine in this regard. It may be that such a barrier to uptake is involved that (what might be considered) high doses are not actually that high in PD cases.
    My personal experiences with 900mg a day made me super smart, and visually hyper-acute but keeping carbs up to this dosing became problematic and resulted in the stress response after a week or so. After 'loading up' so to speak, lower doses worked fine and did not deplete B6 and mag which I also felt had happened (along with my precious glycogen stores for a while there too!). I conclude acute high dose might be useful but otherwise smaller daily doses seem better for me.
    If find those using B1 for Hashimotos can also get into trouble if B6 and mag are not sufficient. Just some observations to date.
    Sheila
     
  9. Mr Rossi

    Mr Rossi Member

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  10. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Great stuff Mr Rossi. Watching both your recent threads. :thumbsup:
     
  11. heartnhands

    heartnhands Member

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    Love it when the folks in the cheap seats get to enjoy the show!
     
  12. g habeck

    g habeck Member

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    I'm interested in trying allithiamine, I understand from some other sites that allithiamine gives one a garlic smell. Does one have to become a recluse to continue taking it for the time required for an adequate test?
     
  13. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I just discovered that plain old thiamine Hcl achieves the same bioavailability as the fat-soluble thiamines provided you take it for at least 7 days. So, taking 300mg oral thiamine Hcl for a week will achieve the same blood levels as taking 300mg allithiamine. All thiamines may give you bad smell due to the sulfur they contain. So, use at your own risk but I think it is a small price to pay given the benefits.
     
  14. g habeck

    g habeck Member

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    Thiamin HCl but not Mononitrate? Thought I'd try it for Essential Tremor [or Benign Familial depending on the doctor]. Will be trying your Methylene Blue, too when it arrives. Recently found these forums & appreciate all your input!!!
     
  15. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I think the mononitrate would work as well, I am just not too keen on the nitrate salts.
     
  16. paymanz

    paymanz Member

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    doesnt the processes they use to produce the powders and capsules deactivate the enzyme that converts thiamine to allithiamine?!
     
  17. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    @haidut, what about sulbutiamine? Is it as good as allithiamine or not so much because it's synthetic?

    After reading this I just took some, for kicks. :) Just wondering your thoughts on it.
     
  18. keith

    keith Member

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    I'm far less knowledgeable than Haidut, but having used Thaimine HCL extensively and sulbutiamine a little less extensively, I much prefer regular old HCL. I don't use it for Parkinson's by the way, so can't make any claims in that regard, but it has, in my non-scientific, untested opinion, helped me improve my CO2 levels, which seems to significantly improve my breathing and reduce the problems I have with sleep apnea. Sulbutiamine makes me feel off in a way I can't really describe well, but just off. Thiamine HCL is all good and no bad for me, which has sort of lead me to the conclusion that perhaps it isn't meant to cross the blood brain barrier in large amounts (although perhaps that would be beneficial in some conditions, including Parkinson's). Also sulbutiamine is foul; it makes thiamine HCL taste like honey.

    On the plus side for sulbutiamine, I had some correspondence with a doctor by the name of Derrick Lonsdale, who is a big proponent of thiamine, particularly allithiamine (TTFD), and he told me "Sulbutiamine is a dimer of two thiamine molecules tied together by a disulfide connection and it is the disulfide which is important. When this dimer gets to the cell membrane, the disulfide bridge is reduced and two molecules of thiamine are delivered to the cytosol and the thiazole ring closes. That is why the thiamine derivatives are known as open ring compounds of the vitamin. I don't think you would have any advantage of TTFD over Sulbutiamine because both are disulfide derivatives."

    The whole cell membrane part is not Peatish, and most of this is a little over my head, but the point is that someone who is smarter than me, and has studied thiamine and its derivatives very extensively, is of the opinion that sulbutiamine is as effective as allithiamine (and cheaper/easier to obtain, I think).

    I can't say it will be the same for you, as the garlic smell seems to be highly variable, but I did not have any odor issues from sulbutiamine at doses of 600 mg /day, and have never had issues with thiamine HCL at doses of up to 1500 mg / day. I even took them at the same time and no garlic smell. Not sure if it has any bearing on anything, but I don't get a garlicky smell from DMSO either, at least not with the 30 drops of original formula old school bright yellow smelly Kuinone.
     
  19. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I got nothing against sulbuthiamine but I just don't think it offers much beyond regular thiamine Hcl.
     
  20. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    Thanks, @keith and @haidut. I just realized the bottle of regular thiamine I have is some other form, not HCL, which may be why I never got anything out of it. I'll get my mits on some thiamine HCL and give that a try. :)
     
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