Thiamine (B1) Reverses Parkinson Disease In Humans

Kvothe

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He wrote a book about his findings with Vit B1 in 1987 that's out of print and very hard to find.

Luckily, the soil and health library had it at one moment but they removed it for some reason.
Someone uploaded it on libgen.

Thanks, I was looking for that, for a while. It seems like a good book with a holistic approach, and has some very valuable information.
 

achillea

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I think this is the first human study showing such profound effect as a result of thiamine administration. Thiamine dose was 100mg administered by injection twice a week, and positive effects were evident after only 3 months of administration.

Long-Term Treatment with High-Dose Thiamine in Parkinson Disease: An Open-Label Pilot Study - PubMed

"RESULTS: Thiamine treatment led to significant improvement of motor and nonmotor symptoms: mean UPDRS scores (parts I-IV) improved from 38.55 ± 15.24 to 18.16 ± 15.08 (p = 2.4 × 10-14, t test for paired data) within 3 months and remained stable over time; motor UPDRS part III score improved from 22.01 ± 8.57 to 9.92 ± 8.66 (p = 3.1 × 10-22). Some patients with a milder phenotype had complete clinical recovery. FSS scores, in six patients who had fatigue, improved from 53.00 ± 8.17 to 23.60 ± 7.77 (p < 0.0001, t test for paired data). Follow-up duration ranged from 95 to 831 days (mean, 291.6 ± 207.2 days)."

"CONCLUSIONS: Administration of parenteral high-dose thiamine was effective in reversing PD motor and nonmotor symptoms. The clinical improvement was stable over time in all the patients. From our clinical evidence, we hypothesize that a dysfunction of thiamine-dependent metabolic processes could cause selective neural damage in the centers typically affected by this disease and might be a fundamental molecular event provoking neurodegeneration. Thiamine could have both restorative and neuroprotective action in PD."


Since most people would not have easy access to thiamine injections, an alternative is oral allithiamine. It achieves the same concentrations (and cellular activity) through oral administration as IV or IM thiamine Hcl. So, oral allithiamine at a dose of just 100mg twice a week should be able to replicate the results of this study.

Absorption, utilization and clinical effectiveness of allithiamines compared to water-soluble thiamines - PubMed

"...Oral administration of lipid-soluble allithiamines [thiamine propyl disulfide (TPD) and thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide (TTHF)] rapidly increased thiamine activity in whole blood, red blood cells, cerebrospinal fluid, and urine in normal and thiamine-deficient subjects. These thiamine congeners also restored red blood cell transketolase to normal in alcoholics with thiamine deficiency. Such repletion equaled that produced by parenteral, water-soluble thiamine hydrochloride (THCl) or thiamine pyrophosphate (TPP). Oral administration of water-soluble thiamines (THCl, TPP) neither elevated thiamine activity in biological fluids nor restored transketolase activity to normal in alcoholics with thiamine deficiency presumably due to their rate-limited intestinal transport. Oral administration of TPD eliminated lateral rectus palsy in patients with Wernicke's encephalopathy. Orally administered allithiamine vitamers are therefore recommended for prophylaxis and treatment of thiamine deficits because while having essentially the same biological properties as parenterally administered water-soluble thiamines they have not produced any untoward effects after long-term administration and are far more efficiently utilized."
I have advised my neighbor to take a100mg before lunch and 100 after, After just a few days he says he sees the difference after 15 years of Parkinsons. I have him on Lipo but will see if the Alli helps as it is cheaper and more readily available,
The HDT Clinic by Dr Cortini says 2 grams per day of B1 HCL which he has done for some 2500 Parkinson patients, Not all but it seems to be his starting protocol. This makes me a little confused but as he is in Italy maybe he does not have the other Alli or Lipo also his clinic uses injections of 100 mg, he has them take it everyday! No B6 and a little Mg twice per week and a little folate.HDT Therapy – HIGH-D0SE THIAMINE (HDT) THERAPY for Parkinson's Disease (highdosethiamine.org)
Will keep you informed as to what happens.
 

achillea

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I have boldened a Paragraph below that I found interesting

Q: Forum member, Kia17, recently asked Dr. Costantini how he determines when he will prescribe intramuscular injections of thiamine or oral thiamine in pill or capsule form?

A : When we began to study the effects of thiamine on fatigue associated with inflammatory-autoimmune diseases, in Italy there were available in pharmacies only 300 mg tablets for the oral therapy and 100 mg phials, the latter to be administrated intramuscularly via shots.

Already starting from 2011 we realized that the phials therapy is 140 times more powerful than the respective oral dosage. In other words, in order to obtain the same clinical results of a patient taking 100 mg shots once a week, s/he should take orally 14 grams (100 mg x 140) of thiamine in tablets per week, thus over 7 days that means 6 or 7 pills (300 mg each). This was immediately felt as an issue both for the cost of the therapy as well as for the need to swallow a large number of pills each day, lifelong.

It should be noted that at that time I was little aware of the potentialities of the internet and the opportunities it can offer to consumers, and in this case to patients.

Therefore, back then, if in order to treat the fatigue a reasonable number of pills was necessary, we would stick to the oral therapy, whereas if the patient required 6+ tablets/day, we suggested to switch to an intramuscular therapy.

When we passed to the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases we learned that the necessary doses were on average even higher. The dose that we find more commonly used among our patients in Italy is 2 x 100 mg shots per week. The equivalent oral dose would be 13 x 300 mg tablets per day or 8 x 500 mg tablets per day depending upon the availability of the pills and the difficulties to swallow that some patients may or may not have. In most cases our patients prefer the intramuscular therapy.

After a few years of the intramuscular treatment however, the glutei begin to be affected by the treatment and it is necessary to switch, if even temporarily, to an oral intake regime. Most of our patients who have been treated with shots for a few years now with 2 shots per week have no issue to report.

The effect of intramuscular or oral thiamine is the same provided that the correct dosage is chosen, depending upon the different administration options, but the phials have a much more immediate action, the oral therapy is much slower and milder, possibly due to difficulties with the intestinal adsorption.

Clearly all patients who are under treatment with anticoagulants must do with the oral therapy, regardless of the number of pills they need.

In Italy this is how it works: the patient comes to the ambulatory and is examined. On the basis of the examination he receives a prescription to purchase the phials or the equivalent dosage in the form of tablets. A nurse performs the injections. However, sometimes the patient himself is capable or has someone to assist him/her (usually spouse or relative) who is capable of performing an intramuscular injection.

On the internet, both phials and tablets (up to 500 mg) are available even without a prescription.

It is worth it to point out that in the cases in which the patient cannot take care of the intramuscular injections alone and thus requires the support of a nurse or his regular practitioner, there have been often reluctance from other neurologists or MD to perform the injections as per our therapy. This is why, when I do not have the opportunity to examine the patient directly, and thus have to resort to email exchanges only, I tend to prefer the oral therapy for ease of use.

Based on my clinical experience then, one reason that made me prefer the oral therapy in some patient is also due to the observation (to be confirmed) that patients of Anglo-saxons origins (Northern Europe and the USA) and Africans require much smaller doses to reach the same clinical results of their Italian mates. This makes it easier to go for an oral therapy in these cases.

Currently, I have email exchanges with about 300 PwP and many required that doses were halved as compared to my initial estimate. This may also be due to the lack of proper assessment of the status of the patient, that is obviously much less accurate without an in-person examination of the patient.
 

GorillaHead

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This is an amazing study. Just to add to those who maybe suffering and are surfing this forum. You need appropriate amounts of calcium for thiamine to reach parts of the brain. This is being extrapolated from studies



 

shine

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I injected thiamine HCl subcutaneously/shallow IM 15 minutes ago and it is a completely different animal compared to oral dosing. Maybe my thiamine uptake via gut isn't optimal. I was really fatigued and tired and now the lights are on again.
 

frannybananny

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I'm far less knowledgeable than Haidut, but having used Thaimine HCL extensively and sulbutiamine a little less extensively, I much prefer regular old HCL. I don't use it for Parkinson's by the way, so can't make any claims in that regard, but it has, in my non-scientific, untested opinion, helped me improve my CO2 levels, which seems to significantly improve my breathing and reduce the problems I have with sleep apnea. Sulbutiamine makes me feel off in a way I can't really describe well, but just off. Thiamine HCL is all good and no bad for me, which has sort of lead me to the conclusion that perhaps it isn't meant to cross the blood brain barrier in large amounts (although perhaps that would be beneficial in some conditions, including Parkinson's). Also sulbutiamine is foul; it makes thiamine HCL taste like honey.

On the plus side for sulbutiamine, I had some correspondence with a doctor by the name of Derrick Lonsdale, who is a big proponent of thiamine, particularly allithiamine (TTFD), and he told me "Sulbutiamine is a dimer of two thiamine molecules tied together by a disulfide connection and it is the disulfide which is important. When this dimer gets to the cell membrane, the disulfide bridge is reduced and two molecules of thiamine are delivered to the cytosol and the thiazole ring closes. That is why the thiamine derivatives are known as open ring compounds of the vitamin. I don't think you would have any advantage of TTFD over Sulbutiamine because both are disulfide derivatives."

The whole cell membrane part is not Peatish, and most of this is a little over my head, but the point is that someone who is smarter than me, and has studied thiamine and its derivatives very extensively, is of the opinion that sulbutiamine is as effective as allithiamine (and cheaper/easier to obtain, I think).



I can't say it will be the same for you, as the garlic smell seems to be highly variable, but I did not have any odor issues from sulbutiamine at doses of 600 mg /day, and have never had issues with thiamine HCL at doses of up to 1500 mg / day. I even took them at the same time and no garlic smell. Not sure if it has any bearing on anything, but I don't get a garlicky smell from DMSO either, at least not with the 30 drops of original formula old school bright yellow smelly Kuinone.
" Thiamine HCL is all good and no bad for me, which has sort of lead me to the conclusion that perhaps it isn't meant to cross the blood brain barrier in large amounts (although perhaps that would be beneficial in some conditions, including Parkinson's)"

I don't understand this sentence since it has been proven in several studies that Thiamine HCL is even more beneficial that the more expensive Benfothiamine because it DOES cross the blood bran barrier more easily.,,,treats and prevents Parkinson's...etc.
 

Ras

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I injected thiamine HCl subcutaneously/shallow IM 15 minutes ago and it is a completely different animal compared to oral dosing. Maybe my thiamine uptake via gut isn't optimal. I was really fatigued and tired and now the lights are on again.
Did you do this any more?
 

GorillaHead

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Thiamine can probably stop further progression but not reverse the damage, if I had to guess why this works its because of manganese been studying this mineral lately, its probably the least studied mineral of all of them. Too much manganese depletes thiamine and too much manganese In the brain results in Parkinson like symptoms.

I have yet to see one cases of Parkinson disease being reversed in terms of the damage, once that mitochondria is damage its likely practically an impossible feat to reverse that damage at this point of time.. But stopping progression is likely very doable.
 

Regina

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Thiamine can probably stop further progression but not reverse the damage, if I had to guess why this works its because of manganese been studying this mineral lately, its probably the least studied mineral of all of them. Too much manganese depletes thiamine and too much manganese In the brain results in Parkinson like symptoms.

I have yet to see one cases of Parkinson disease being reversed in terms of the damage, once that mitochondria is damage its likely practically an impossible feat to reverse that damage at this point of time.. But stopping progression is likely very doable.
what caused the excess manganese in the brain? A certain habitual diet?
My oldest brother has PD.
 

GorillaHead

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what caused the excess manganese in the brain? A certain habitual diet?
My oldest brother has PD.
The lack of thiamine is what caused it if i were to guess. Def get him on high dose b vitamins. It should help slow down the progress
 

Soren

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I just posted a thread on this but high dose thiamine appears to be a bit hit and miss for my mother. Sometimes she has more energy and seems better but other times it makes her a lot worse.

I think this is due to having low energy stores whilst taking a supplement that boosts metabolism. Reving the engine with no gas in the tank so to speak.
 

LadyRae

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I just posted a thread on this but high dose thiamine appears to be a bit hit and miss for my mother. Sometimes she has more energy and seems better but other times it makes her a lot worse.

I think this is due to having low energy stores whilst taking a supplement that boosts metabolism. Reving the engine with no gas in the tank so to speak.
I just responded in your other thread. Since you've read through this one you probably now know more about thiamine than me ha!

Of course high-dose thiamine to your mother might be low dose thiamine to someone else. I do notice positive effects from B1 but only when I am very careful to dose it correctly for myself, which takes experimentation, and like I said, and adjustable source like Haidut's Energin...
 

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