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Acetazolamide Plus Thiamine As Treatment Of Mental Conditions

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, May 26, 2015.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    These studies confirm Ray's view that reduction in oxidative metabolism plays a role in the pathogenesis of these conditions. The combination should be a potent way to lower lactic acid beyond what either agent could do alone. I wonder if it could be a viable alternative to substances like DCA.
    The human doses used was 2g of acetazolamide spread into 750mg, 750mg and 500mg doses combined with equal doses of 500mg thiamine for a total of 1.5g thiamine. Duration was 4-6 months. The observed improvement was, I think, on top of what was already experienced due to the antipsychotic drugs.
    One thing of note was that patients were given 8oz. of orange juice daily to drink while on the therapy. Acetazolamide apparently depletes electrolytes and the orange juice was used to replete them. Also, I guess Ray is right to recommend orange juice as a way to replenish electrolytes.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2669002
    "...The rationale for this treatment with A + T originated m the Cerebral Metabohsm Laboratory of the Kline Institute for Psychiatnc Research, which for many years used an ongmal artenovenous technique for determining cerebral metabolism in vivo human subjects (Sacks, 1969, 1973, 1976, 1983) With over 500 experiments m human subJects (half chronic mental patients and half volunteers), it was originally found that significantly less [C-14] carbon dioxide was produced from [C-14] glucose by mental patients’ brains than by those of mentally normal SubJects (Sacks, 1959). Later It was determined that much higher specific activity [I-C- 141 lactate was made from [3-C- 141 glucose by mental patients’ brains (Sacks et al., 1981). The most likely explanation of these data was that there were some small lactate compartments in specific brain region(s), in which the decarboxylatlon of endogenously formed cerebral lactate was partially inhibited."

    "...With the total SAPS scores, there was a sigmficant average change of I .4633 (p < 0.02) With the SANS scores, there was an average change of 0.9388 @ < 0.05); as can be seen from the mdividual SANS scores, however, negative symptoms were not very prevalent m our patients. Overall, 50% of the patients showed improvement on all assessment scales. Only 12% (3 out of 24) failed to show any improvement at all In the great majority of the remaining patients, the assessed positive changes were greater than any negative
    changes
    ."
     
  2. javacody

    javacody Member

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    This is exciting. I wonder about the potential impact on autism?

    My daughter has ASD (and I suspect my son has Asperger's).

    What are the dangers/side effects of acetazolamide?
     
  3. javacody

    javacody Member

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    Wow, after looking at the side effects, that's some scary stuff. Stephens-Johnson Syndrome especially...
     
  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Can you point to some studies or how often this happens? I have not heard of anyone getting SJS from acetazolamide.
     
  5. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    There was a study with a fat-soluble version of thiamine in autistic children.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12195231
    "...Thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide appears to have a beneficial clinical effect on some autistic children, since 8 of the 10 children improved clinically. We obtained evidence of an association of this increasingly occurring disease with presence of urinary SH-reactive metals, arsenic in particular."

    As you can see 8 out of 10 children improved. I am not sure why the study used rectal administration but the dose is relatively low. High doses of oral thiamine may be a better tolerated and easier to administer.

    The vitamin they used (TTFD) is also known as allithiamine. If you want to try the TTFD, you can buy it from several places online, one of them being Vitamin Shoppe.
    http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/cardiova ... es/cv-1075
     
  6. javacody

    javacody Member

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    I read that on the wikipedia article. I think they have references there.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetazolamide
     
  7. javacody

    javacody Member

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    Thanks for sharing! It's worth a shot. Just getting my daughter to take a multi vitamin has helped. Fortunately, she loves fruit and cheese. She'll only eat orange flavored jello, so I need to stock up on that and start offering it to her daily.

    I do have magnesium Bisglycinate that I'm going to try to get her taking 400 mg of per day. She has a low threshhold for taking pills, and she has eczema and very sensitive skin, so transdermal mag is a no go.
     
  8. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    What about magnesium bicarbonate? It looks like water and tastes almost like water.
     
  9. javacody

    javacody Member

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    I'm not aware of it. I'll look into it and give it a shot. Thanks Haidut!
     
  10. javacody

    javacody Member

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  11. narouz

    narouz Member

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    I've been trying the magnesium bicarbonate.
    The taste was way better than other magnesiums.
    But...I do think it has a mild laxative action,
    so I have to keep the doses lowish and with food.
     
  12. BingDing

    BingDing Member

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    About 3/4 oj and 1/4 mag bicarb tastes pretty good to me. I cut all fruit juices with something, mag bicarb or potassium bicarb usually, water if I don't have those.
     
  13. narouz

    narouz Member

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    If you don't mind me asking, Bing,
    why do you do that?
     
  14. BingDing

    BingDing Member

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    They just are too strong for my taste. Too thick or too sweet or too acidic. I've done that as long as I can remember.
     
  15. narouz

    narouz Member

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    I see.
    I thought maybe it was some Peatish health angle. :)
     
  16. tara

    tara Member

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    What's not Peatish about that? Doesn't he say that taste is the best indicator of whether we need more sugar? And thirst is the best indicator of needing more water? :D
     
  17. tara

    tara Member

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    I'm using purebulk Mg hydroxide powder to make it. Seems to work.

    If you are trying to find ways to get vitamins into daughter without pills, their vitamin powders make them easy to add to juice etc.
    My kids love jelly made with fruit juice, too.
     
  18. narouz

    narouz Member

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    I just mean,
    Bing wasn't doing it explicitly because of some Peat principle.
    He just likes it better that way. :)
     
  19. tara

    tara Member

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    Strikes me as a pretty Peat principle. He also says it's important to eat food you like. :)
     
  20. BingDing

    BingDing Member

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    LOL, it is funny to think back on it. I was a total sugar and dairy junkie when I was young. I put down a half gallon of rocky road ice cream in one sitting once. I drank so much soda that my mom took me to the doctor to see if I had diabetes when I was 14 (no, the lab work was fine). No wonder I took to the Peat WOE so easily!
     
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