Thiamine Reduces Both Lactate And Ammonia

OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Well I have to defer to you on that one as I am not a scientist. Also thought it worth mentioning I am not a Bill Sardi proponent, and I know he has a heavily vested interest in resveratrol. That said, his info at the link above seemed interesting...Also, if I may, what is your opinion of this...
Comparative autoradiographic investigations on the tissue distribution of benfotiamine versus thiamine in mice. - PubMed - NCBI

Like I said, not a fan of benfothiamine or resveratrol. I have tried both with bad results. Regular thiamine or at best allithiamine is where it's at for me. And niacinamide of course, as it is an antagonist to resveratrol. Resveratrol is just plain evil. It is a very similar molecule to the drug Vioxx, which killed so many people and was withdrawn/banned by the FDA.
 

Texon

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
668
Like I said, not a fan of benfothiamine or resveratrol. I have tried both with bad results. Regular thiamine or at best allithiamine is where it's at for me. And niacinamide of course, as it is an antagonist to resveratrol. Resveratrol is just plain evil. It is a very similar molecule to the drug Vioxx, which killed so many people and was withdrawn/banned by the FDA.
Wow! May I ask what you noticed from the benfotiamine? Also, re: resveratrol... does something in wine offset its negative effects? I can tell you from personal experience, I tried the new Google/Elysium Basis supplement with pterostilbine after it first came out, and I absolutely could not tolerate it.
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Wow! May I ask what you noticed from the benfotiamine? Also, re: resveratrol... does something in wine offset its negative effects? I can tell you from personal experience, I tried the new Google/Elysium Basis supplement with pterostilbine after it first came out, and I absolutely could not tolerate it.

Benfo gave me bad digestion and headache. Also, it did not seem to reduce lactate after workout like allithiamine or regular thiamine did. I am not aware of anything in wine that offsets the effects of resveratrol but there may be some polyphenols with a weak antiestrogenic effects.
 
Joined
Oct 5, 2016
Messages
785
Age
36
Location
Florida
I'm nowadays taking about 2000 mg thiamin hcl

4 ×500 mg a day

The first 2 weeks I pee yellow smelly pee

Not like the riboflavin peeing color

And then that stops

But thiamine gives me a very very smelly body odor and specially hair odor

I usually take two showers a day
And still

I don't have a problem with the odor

But it a lot

My boxer everyday smells like I wore it for like 4 days consecutively

But it's okay

The private parts smells like metals mixed with sweat hahaha

But it's a wonderful supplement

It's really interesting thread and comments

Thanks haidut
Thanks all
 

Sheik

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
703
@DaveFoster Did you ever order that thiamine from Sigma Aldrich, and how did you get them to send it without being part of an organization?

I'm actually trying to order progesterone from a different vendor, and wondering if I should give a fake organization name. No idea if that's legal.
 

DaveFoster

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
5,027
Location
Portland, Oregon
@DaveFoster Did you ever order that thiamine from Sigma Aldrich, and how did you get them to send it without being part of an organization?

I'm actually trying to order progesterone from a different vendor, and wondering if I should give a fake organization name. No idea if that's legal.
I never did; I've been using the PureBulk thiamine. I think the negative effects were from CA inhibition from thiamine, and an interaction with aspirin.

I'm not sure if giving a fake organization name is legal. I'd say not, but you probably won't get caught.
 

Lore

Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2017
Messages
128
Location
Albuquerque, NM
@DaveFoster Did you ever order that thiamine from Sigma Aldrich, and how did you get them to send it without being part of an organization?

I'm actually trying to order progesterone from a different vendor, and wondering if I should give a fake organization name. No idea if that's legal.

Don't use a "fake organization", use a "pseudo name for your organization".:lol: Maybe someone with a company/organization that is part of this website can work something out? :idea:

Dr. Clark's Store prides themselves in "purity". Maybe Oskar Thorvaldsson would know where to get some of the pure nutrient/supplements that are needed. They are wonderful people. Their prices are decent also.
 

Mauritio

Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
5,669
so did anyone figure out if this body odor is sth to worry about ? i dont mind it that much . but if it means that the liver is overwhelmed or that there is too much iron unbound in the blood (as somone else said in another thread) i might want to do something about it ...
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
10,883
Location
Manila
Would I be correct then in thinking that thiamine supplementation - at higher than RDA - could perhaps help those with kidney insufficiency as they accumulate ammonia? Thoughts anyone? Thanks, Sheila.
Hi Sheila, I'm looking at using thiamine to lower lactate in my kidneys. I suspect hypoxia in my kidney glomerular arterioles. This lead to high lactate as a result of anaerobic glycolysis. The high lactate leads to insufficient renal excretion of uric acid. This results in high uric acid levels that cause would lead to low nitric oxide levels, leading to vasoconstriction, and then to hypoxia. Thiamine would convert lactate to pyruvate. With lowered levels of lactate, more uric acid can be excreted and this would lead eventually to vasodilation of the arterioles, relieving the glomerulus of a hypoxic condition. Lower uric acid, higher NO would allow for vasodilation.

I just got results of my random urine uric acid test and it confirms that it is excreting at a low rate at 18.16 mg/dL. Reference range at 44 - 109.50.

I think thiamine supplementation will help. What do you think?
 

Sheila

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
374
Hello dear Yerrag,
I seem to recall you are taking a considerable number of supplements, but I may be not up to date. Theoretically, thiamine should help with ammonia but it also increases metabolic considerations so what it should do and what it does may not be the same, not least because of interactions with other supplements. Have to say, sorry, in the end, i never found supplementation that helpful in chronic kidney conditions. If I were to have my time again, I think working very minimally with zeta potential concepts would be my preferred route.
All the best,
Sheila
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
10,883
Location
Manila
Hello dear Yerrag,
I seem to recall you are taking a considerable number of supplements, but I may be not up to date. Theoretically, thiamine should help with ammonia but it also increases metabolic considerations so what it should do and what it does may not be the same, not least because of interactions with other supplements. Have to say, sorry, in the end, i never found supplementation that helpful in chronic kidney conditions. If I were to have my time again, I think working very minimally with zeta potential concepts would be my preferred route.
All the best,
Sheila
I've actually stopped supplementation for a while. Not only because it is tiring to keep up, but I've had a change of focus lately. I've began to try fasting, and so far results have been good, having substantially lowered my blood pressure. And you're spot on with your statement that supplementation hasn't been helpful with CKD. I had to try fasting to find that out. Fasting is like a total elimination diet, so certainly no food, and no supplementation. From this reference point, I can slowly add food or supplements and see how my kidneys react to them.

From a 1-day dry fast, I've moved to a wet fast, starting with water, then to coconut water, then to a potassium-sugar-maltose mix of water (maltose because it has no fructose). No-fructose pure glucose seems to be helping lower my blood pressure. So, tomorrow, I'll add some thiamine to the last mix, and I'll find out if thiamine will be a useful addition to the mix.

I'm actually using thiamine not out of reducing ammonia, but of reducing lactate, so that when I reduce lactate in my kidney arterioles, I allow more uric acid to be excreted, and with more uric acid excretion, I lower my serum uric acid, and with it comes more NO to keep my arterioles vasodilated, And this will lower my blood pressure.
 

Sheila

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
374
Dear Yerrag,
Thank you for detailing your current progress, I am very happy for you.
Maybe go gently with thiamine on a fast as it seems to be a short step to cortisol if there is limited fuel. I have long thought that kidney conditions have some element of associated bowel toxicity (who doesn't?), in addition to the potential effect of latent sepsis (now sorted with you I recall), and 'salting out' of excess minerals (zeta potential). I wonder what it is that fructose engenders for you, that glucose doesn't. Is it suggestive of some pathogenic bacteria (we all have some) that makes 'spoiled' hay with fructose but not glucose?
Either way, great to find you making progress.
Best regards
Sheila
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
10,883
Location
Manila
Dear Yerrag,
Thank you for detailing your current progress, I am very happy for you.
Maybe go gently with thiamine on a fast as it seems to be a short step to cortisol if there is limited fuel. I have long thought that kidney conditions have some element of associated bowel toxicity (who doesn't?), in addition to the potential effect of latent sepsis (now sorted with you I recall), and 'salting out' of excess minerals (zeta potential). I wonder what it is that fructose engenders for you, that glucose doesn't. Is it suggestive of some pathogenic bacteria (we all have some) that makes 'spoiled' hay with fructose but not glucose?
Either way, great to find you making progress.
Best regards
Sheila
Thanks for the warning on thiamine being a short step to cortisol. I have to look into that.

My kidney condition actually originated from chronic bacterial infection, if my suspicion is correct. It came from a latent periodontal issue, which has been producing and harboring anaerobic bacteria. But that periodontal infection has been resolved for 4 months already, so I believe I'm now dealing with the lingering effects of that infection. These would include plaques formed on arterioles, plaques being the leftover remains of bacteria and white blood cells, with calcium in biofilms. This would be a cause for hypoxia. And hypoxia would be a cause for lactate, and lactate would be a cause for limiting urinary uric acid excretion. I would for now have to assume my bowels are fine. It is a possibility but a remote one, as there are no indications at all my gut has a problem.

The problem I have with fructose is that it increase uric acid production. With serum uric acid being high, I have to limit fructose intake for the time being. It's not because of pathogenic bacteria that fructose would be feeding. There is no dysbiosis in my gut. Glucose does not cause an increase in uric acid.
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
10,883
Location
Manila

Lokzo

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Messages
2,123
Location
Melbourne
So I want to revive Thiamine HCL again. I started using it again and can't believe how good it is for improving mental clarity/energy. Mood is way up too - I am using around 100mg orally.

The question is - when using a b complex- even one that contains 100mg of Thiamine HCL - there is literally nowhere near the same effect... I actually don't feel much at all from B-Complexes.
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
10,883
Location
Manila
Hello dear Yerrag,
I seem to recall you are taking a considerable number of supplements, but I may be not up to date. Theoretically, thiamine should help with ammonia but it also increases metabolic considerations so what it should do and what it does may not be the same, not least because of interactions with other supplements. Have to say, sorry, in the end, i never found supplementation that helpful in chronic kidney conditions. If I were to have my time again, I think working very minimally with zeta potential concepts would be my preferred route.
All the best,
Sheila
It took me less than a week of experimentation with my ideas and I have to admit your suggested route of looking into zeta potential a better approach. I'm going back to thinking that trying to lower my uric acid isn't the solution, either by limiting production or by increasing its excretion. The high uric acid is probably what's helping me cope with a bad situation. A drink of gin and tonic recently made me think more along your line of reasoning. Not the alcohol straightening me up, but more of the drink lowering my blood pressure. It turns out gin is made of juniper berries and the terpenes are having some effect, and the quinine is tonic water as well. That is one route (eating raisins soaked in gin or having gin tonic). Another would be to take low-dose antibiotics in the way of reducing inflammatory effects of gut bacteria. And lastly, improving on the zeta potential by drinking electrolyte preparations that you suggested.
 

Peater

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
2,633
Location
Here
If you are going to use any of the so-called "fat soluble B1" like benfo and alli, I would go with allithiamine as benfothiamine was shown to NOT raise brain levels of B1 and it is the brain that needs B1 the most.

Been doing a lot of thiamine research, on and off this forum, and just found this. Although everywhere else seems to concur with you.
 

Attachments

  • benfo.PNG
    benfo.PNG
    64 KB · Views: 73

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom