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Thiamine Reduces Both Lactate And Ammonia

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Jan 27, 2015.

  1. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Like I said, not a fan of benfothiamine or resveratrol. I have tried both with bad results. Regular thiamine or at best allithiamine is where it's at for me. And niacinamide of course, as it is an antagonist to resveratrol. Resveratrol is just plain evil. It is a very similar molecule to the drug Vioxx, which killed so many people and was withdrawn/banned by the FDA.
     
  2. Texon

    Texon Member

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    Wow! May I ask what you noticed from the benfotiamine? Also, re: resveratrol... does something in wine offset its negative effects? I can tell you from personal experience, I tried the new Google/Elysium Basis supplement with pterostilbine after it first came out, and I absolutely could not tolerate it.
     
  3. Koveras

    Koveras Member

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  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Benfo gave me bad digestion and headache. Also, it did not seem to reduce lactate after workout like allithiamine or regular thiamine did. I am not aware of anything in wine that offsets the effects of resveratrol but there may be some polyphenols with a weak antiestrogenic effects.
     
  5. Bahaa El wazzan

    Bahaa El wazzan Member

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    I'm nowadays taking about 2000 mg thiamin hcl

    4 ×500 mg a day

    The first 2 weeks I pee yellow smelly pee

    Not like the riboflavin peeing color

    And then that stops

    But thiamine gives me a very very smelly body odor and specially hair odor

    I usually take two showers a day
    And still

    I don't have a problem with the odor

    But it a lot

    My boxer everyday smells like I wore it for like 4 days consecutively

    But it's okay

    The private parts smells like metals mixed with sweat hahaha

    But it's a wonderful supplement

    It's really interesting thread and comments

    Thanks haidut
    Thanks all
     
  6. Sheik

    Sheik Member

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    @DaveFoster Did you ever order that thiamine from Sigma Aldrich, and how did you get them to send it without being part of an organization?

    I'm actually trying to order progesterone from a different vendor, and wondering if I should give a fake organization name. No idea if that's legal.
     
  7. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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    I never did; I've been using the PureBulk thiamine. I think the negative effects were from CA inhibition from thiamine, and an interaction with aspirin.

    I'm not sure if giving a fake organization name is legal. I'd say not, but you probably won't get caught.
     
  8. Lore

    Lore Member

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    Don't use a "fake organization", use a "pseudo name for your organization".:lol: Maybe someone with a company/organization that is part of this website can work something out? :idea:

    Dr. Clark's Store prides themselves in "purity". Maybe Oskar Thorvaldsson would know where to get some of the pure nutrient/supplements that are needed. They are wonderful people. Their prices are decent also.
     
  9. Mauritio

    Mauritio Member

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    so did anyone figure out if this body odor is sth to worry about ? i dont mind it that much . but if it means that the liver is overwhelmed or that there is too much iron unbound in the blood (as somone else said in another thread) i might want to do something about it ...
     
  10. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Hi Sheila, I'm looking at using thiamine to lower lactate in my kidneys. I suspect hypoxia in my kidney glomerular arterioles. This lead to high lactate as a result of anaerobic glycolysis. The high lactate leads to insufficient renal excretion of uric acid. This results in high uric acid levels that cause would lead to low nitric oxide levels, leading to vasoconstriction, and then to hypoxia. Thiamine would convert lactate to pyruvate. With lowered levels of lactate, more uric acid can be excreted and this would lead eventually to vasodilation of the arterioles, relieving the glomerulus of a hypoxic condition. Lower uric acid, higher NO would allow for vasodilation.

    I just got results of my random urine uric acid test and it confirms that it is excreting at a low rate at 18.16 mg/dL. Reference range at 44 - 109.50.

    I think thiamine supplementation will help. What do you think?
     
  11. Sheila

    Sheila Member

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    Hello dear Yerrag,
    I seem to recall you are taking a considerable number of supplements, but I may be not up to date. Theoretically, thiamine should help with ammonia but it also increases metabolic considerations so what it should do and what it does may not be the same, not least because of interactions with other supplements. Have to say, sorry, in the end, i never found supplementation that helpful in chronic kidney conditions. If I were to have my time again, I think working very minimally with zeta potential concepts would be my preferred route.
    All the best,
    Sheila
     
  12. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    I've actually stopped supplementation for a while. Not only because it is tiring to keep up, but I've had a change of focus lately. I've began to try fasting, and so far results have been good, having substantially lowered my blood pressure. And you're spot on with your statement that supplementation hasn't been helpful with CKD. I had to try fasting to find that out. Fasting is like a total elimination diet, so certainly no food, and no supplementation. From this reference point, I can slowly add food or supplements and see how my kidneys react to them.

    From a 1-day dry fast, I've moved to a wet fast, starting with water, then to coconut water, then to a potassium-sugar-maltose mix of water (maltose because it has no fructose). No-fructose pure glucose seems to be helping lower my blood pressure. So, tomorrow, I'll add some thiamine to the last mix, and I'll find out if thiamine will be a useful addition to the mix.

    I'm actually using thiamine not out of reducing ammonia, but of reducing lactate, so that when I reduce lactate in my kidney arterioles, I allow more uric acid to be excreted, and with more uric acid excretion, I lower my serum uric acid, and with it comes more NO to keep my arterioles vasodilated, And this will lower my blood pressure.
     
  13. Sheila

    Sheila Member

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    Dear Yerrag,
    Thank you for detailing your current progress, I am very happy for you.
    Maybe go gently with thiamine on a fast as it seems to be a short step to cortisol if there is limited fuel. I have long thought that kidney conditions have some element of associated bowel toxicity (who doesn't?), in addition to the potential effect of latent sepsis (now sorted with you I recall), and 'salting out' of excess minerals (zeta potential). I wonder what it is that fructose engenders for you, that glucose doesn't. Is it suggestive of some pathogenic bacteria (we all have some) that makes 'spoiled' hay with fructose but not glucose?
    Either way, great to find you making progress.
    Best regards
    Sheila
     
  14. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Thanks for the warning on thiamine being a short step to cortisol. I have to look into that.

    My kidney condition actually originated from chronic bacterial infection, if my suspicion is correct. It came from a latent periodontal issue, which has been producing and harboring anaerobic bacteria. But that periodontal infection has been resolved for 4 months already, so I believe I'm now dealing with the lingering effects of that infection. These would include plaques formed on arterioles, plaques being the leftover remains of bacteria and white blood cells, with calcium in biofilms. This would be a cause for hypoxia. And hypoxia would be a cause for lactate, and lactate would be a cause for limiting urinary uric acid excretion. I would for now have to assume my bowels are fine. It is a possibility but a remote one, as there are no indications at all my gut has a problem.

    The problem I have with fructose is that it increase uric acid production. With serum uric acid being high, I have to limit fructose intake for the time being. It's not because of pathogenic bacteria that fructose would be feeding. There is no dysbiosis in my gut. Glucose does not cause an increase in uric acid.
     
  15. Sheila

    Sheila Member

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    Thank you dear Yerrag for your explanations.
    All the best
    Sheila
     
  16. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Thanks as well Sheila. I appreciate your help!
     
  17. Lokzo

    Lokzo Member

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    So I want to revive Thiamine HCL again. I started using it again and can't believe how good it is for improving mental clarity/energy. Mood is way up too - I am using around 100mg orally.

    The question is - when using a b complex- even one that contains 100mg of Thiamine HCL - there is literally nowhere near the same effect... I actually don't feel much at all from B-Complexes.
     
  18. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    It took me less than a week of experimentation with my ideas and I have to admit your suggested route of looking into zeta potential a better approach. I'm going back to thinking that trying to lower my uric acid isn't the solution, either by limiting production or by increasing its excretion. The high uric acid is probably what's helping me cope with a bad situation. A drink of gin and tonic recently made me think more along your line of reasoning. Not the alcohol straightening me up, but more of the drink lowering my blood pressure. It turns out gin is made of juniper berries and the terpenes are having some effect, and the quinine is tonic water as well. That is one route (eating raisins soaked in gin or having gin tonic). Another would be to take low-dose antibiotics in the way of reducing inflammatory effects of gut bacteria. And lastly, improving on the zeta potential by drinking electrolyte preparations that you suggested.
     
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