Riboflavin, A Testosterone 5 Alpha-reductase Inhibitor

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B2 is a powerful serotonin antagonist. You can eat a huge protein meal(muscle meat) and take b2+gelatin and feel no malaise

Some serotonin is needed. Wanna feel impending doom? Take b2 with collagen and no other proteins. NOT fun.

Energy Loss is almost always FFA(PUFA) throwing everything off. This lead to sertonin-all the other negative downstream. I think super low fat is super over rated. Much better to throw in some diary fat and simply avoid starch and trytophan is your scared about weight gain.
 

baccheion

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I believe this is true - as a corollary, the effects of highish b2 felt similar in some ways to taking Cypro. However, after approximately 6 weeks I began having negative psychological effects to and energy loss, so I don’t know what gives? I actually am beginning to wonder if Peat is right about everything. Intolerance to sunlight rings true, for one.
High acetylcholine is associated with fatigue, etc. I'd imagine lower serotonin tends to equal higher acetylcholine (and depression). Acetylcholine is also associated with increased muscle tone, which probably plays a part in face lift effects.
 

Arnold Grape

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I felt downright suicidal after this amount of time on b2. There must be some exact in between, because how does something so innocuous seeming end up with that result? Still rebounding. I will say that I reacted poorly to Cypro, too. Sux because I did achieve the increased muscle tone and good skin - cowering in my bed, alone.
 

lampofred

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I felt downright suicidal after this amount of time on b2. There must be some exact in between, because how does something so innocuous seeming end up with that result? Still rebounding. I will say that I reacted poorly to Cypro, too. Sux because I did achieve the increased muscle tone and good skin - cowering in my bed, alone.

It could be that there were allergens in your B2 supplement, Dr. Peat says riboflavin in particular has a lot of nasty industrial contaminants. It could also be that lowering serotonin allowed you to get more in tune with suppressed emotions, that might be why things that lower serotonin (such as progesterone) make some people depressed, and others euphoric.
 

baccheion

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I felt downright suicidal after this amount of time on b2. There must be some exact in between, because how does something so innocuous seeming end up with that result? Still rebounding. I will say that I reacted poorly to Cypro, too. Sux because I did achieve the increased muscle tone and good skin - cowering in my bed, alone.
Maybe you took too much? B2 goes with B3. Were you also taking enough vitamin D, magnesium, etc?

It could be that there were allergens in your B2 supplement, Dr. Peat says riboflavin in particular has a lot of nasty industrial contaminants. It could also be that lowering serotonin allowed you to get more in tune with suppressed emotions, that might be why things that lower serotonin (such as progesterone) make some people depressed, and others euphoric.
Does estrogen raise or lower serotonin? Acetylcholine?
 

lampofred

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Maybe you took too much? B2 goes with B3. Were you also taking enough vitamin D, magnesium, etc?

Does estrogen raise or lower serotonin? Acetylcholine?

I think it depends. I think progesterone is incompatible with high serotonin, so if you have high progesterone, you necessarily have low serotonin. But if you have high estrogen, your body could either raise serotonin in a protective reaction (male brains tend to take this route) which would make you sluggish and not alert, or you could run on estrogen and adrenaline in a stressed-out, hyper stimulated way (female brains tend to take this route).

I don't know much about acetylcholine and its interaction with estrogen.
 

Hans

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Does estrogen raise or lower serotonin? Acetylcholine?
Estrogen increases serotonin synthesis, inhibits its transporter (SERT) and also inhibits its breakdown.

Estrogen and serotonin both increases acetylcholine release.
 

baccheion

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Estrogen increases serotonin synthesis, inhibits its transporter (SERT) and also inhibits its breakdown.

Estrogen and serotonin both increases acetylcholine release.
What does inhibition of the transporter mean? Effectively lower serotonin? What does acetylcholine release mean? Higher acetylcholine? Depletion?

That is, I read similar things in the past and I'm still confused.

I thought serotonin opposed acetylcholine?
 

Hans

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What does inhibition of the transporter mean? Effectively lower serotonin? What does acetylcholine release mean? Higher acetylcholine? Depletion?

That is, I read similar things in the past and I'm still confused.

I thought serotonin opposed acetylcholine?
It means more serotonin that is not being cleared, resulting in elevated serotonin.
Acetylcholine release means more acetylcholine activity is the brain which is stimulating. It's good if you want to focus, but bad if you want to relax. With high serotonin it's pretty hard to relax because it causes you to ruminate on stuff constantly.

Acetylcholine is also elevated in various pathological conditions.
 

Arnold Grape

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Maybe you took too much? B2 goes with B3. Were you also taking enough vitamin D, magnesium, etc?

Ya - I was supplementing D in Estroban a few times a week and eating a lot of dark chocolate while taking 50-100 mg of b2.

It could be that there were allergens in your B2 supplement, Dr. Peat says riboflavin in particular has a lot of nasty industrial contaminants. It could also be that lowering serotonin allowed you to get more in tune with suppressed emotions, that might be why things that lower serotonin (such as progesterone) make some people depressed, and others euphoric.
I think the first part of this theory rings true re: allergens, although it was one of the toxin less brands. Mostly I followed the protocol outlined on the Phoenixrising.me site. I actually love progesterone, though: If it did not turn me into a walking stick figure, I would take it all the time.
 

Waremu

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If anyone is going the dairy-free route, adding whole oranges and bok choy to your diet can add a substantial amount of calcium without having to use a calcium supplement. If you use white rice as a major carb source (it's one of the few low phosphorus starches), then both food types can really cut down on high phosphorus in the diet if you're concerned about it whilst eating non-dairy animal protein, like beef. If you don't mind eating plenty of greens/bok choy and oranges. Bok choy (a low oxalate, high calcium green) goes great with meat and oranges add a lot of folate and Vitamin B1 so it works out in other aspects as well. Using egg shells tore up my stomach over time, so that is an option to consider if you do not handle egg shells either.
 
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Fractality

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If anyone is going the dairy-free route, adding whole oranges and bok choy to your diet can add a substantial amount of calcium without having to use a calcium supplement. If you use white rice as a major carb source (it's one of the few low phosphorus starches), then both food types can really cut down on high phosphorus in the diet if you're concerned about it whilst eating non-dairy animal protein, like beef. If you don't mind eating plenty of greens/bok choy and oranges. Bok choy (a low oxalate, high calcium green) goes great with meat and oranges add a lot of folate and Vitamin B1 so it works out in other aspects as well. Using egg shells tore up my stomach over time, so that is an option to consider if you do not handle egg shells either.

I love bok choy. Do you agree that light steaming is preferable compared to sauteing in regards to maintaining nutrients?
 

serling78

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Riboflavin is said to lower DHT. Is this not seen as problematic? How does riboflavin achieve the "face-lift" effect? By recycling glutathione?
I'm curious about the lowering DHT piece. I started taking B2 this week to help with rosacea, but if it lowers DHT that would be deal breaker for me. I'm pretty sensitive to any 5a-reductase inhibitors when it comes to libido. Has anyone noticed lowered DHT related side effects?
 

pubh12

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Estrogen increases serotonin synthesis, inhibits its transporter (SERT) and also inhibits its breakdown.

Estrogen and serotonin both increases acetylcholine release.
Hans , quick question. I’ve been reading all over the place that high serotonin opposes acetylcholine making it low. Is that not the case ? Personally I believe I’m high in both but people on Reddit seem to insist if my serotonin is high my acetylcholine probably isn’t.
 

Hans

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Hans , quick question. I’ve been reading all over the place that high serotonin opposes acetylcholine making it low. Is that not the case ? Personally I believe I’m high in both but people on Reddit seem to insist if my serotonin is high my acetylcholine probably isn’t.
Best to get a urinary catecholamine test to be sure.
 

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