Weight Loss: Starch And Trytophan Are What Are Stopping You

[corvetteseeker]

@Amarsh213 - I am very intrigued by your thread. I came to Ray Peat because of libido/weight gain/thyroid issues and have still been searching for the perfect combo of foods. I feel great with most fruit but have been looking for the other missing links and I think you may have found them.

I have always felt drawn toward dairy but I've mainly tried yogurt/whey/milk and thought dairy itself was the issue.
Recently, I've been trying to figure out why beef meals leave me with brain fog/lethargy even when combined with fructose that I do well with. Tryptophan is the only explanation I have after reading this thread.

Just a few questions:

* Have you experimented w/ regular fruit vs fruit juice. Does the fiber make that big of a difference? If so, what are the effects?
* About how much fat/calories do you consume in a day? Do you find that this way of eating makes calories less important?
* Any other hacks/info? Any other foods you eat or have experimented with?

I tend to gain weight easily (think endomorph). Do you have the same tendency or something else? I'm just curious as
to where your health was at before eating this way and where exactly this WOE has taken you. Thank you in advance!

 

[corvetteseeker]

To anyone who knows - is feta the only cheese option for low tryptophan? maybe brie or something? Funny how I keep being cornered into the most expensive foods.

 

[Antonello]

I have had substantial weight loss.
I am Down 20lbs, muscle is way up, libido as well, fatigue is gone.
I am now a lean, muscular healthy individuals, without restrictive low carb/low fat/excessive excising.

Here's what I have found: It all comes down to hormones

1) All Tryptophan/Cysteine/Methanione and Insulin-Genic Starch are the culprits and disruptions of hormones.

2) Simply going "Low fat" messes with blood sugar swings, fat soul able vitamins, cholesterol production, and high circulating FFA(PUFA).

Diet:
Protein:
Full Fat Sheep and Goat Cheese= A2 Casein+Calcium+Fat
Homemade A2 milk Cottage Cheese
Gelatin/Collagen

This Keep Serotonin down and you will see a huge increase in mood/libido/testosterone

Carbs:
Apple Juice+Salt
Orange Juice+Sugar+Salt

Supplements:
Coffee
b2(strong serotonin antagonist)
vitamin e

You will become ravenously hungry and drop a ton of water weight in the first few days.

Take a gulp of milk/meat and the tryptophan methanione will bloat you up and slow everything down, you will realize the culperts all along.


Avoid:
Starchs=Insulin/Serotonin Producing
All Anti-Metabolic Amminos=Meat, Whey(milk)

How long have you been doing this diet?

 

[corvetteseeker]

Hopefully @Amarsh213 checks in and gives us an update.

I've mainly been eating this way the last week and definitely feel great.

I have just been clouding results by too much added sugar and dairy fat.
I'll be removing these so I have a better baseline and I'll be happy to report back the results.

 

[Antonello]

Hopefully @Amarsh213 checks in and gives us an update.

I've mainly been eating this way the last week and definitely feel great.

I have just been clouding results by too much added sugar and dairy fat.
I'll be removing these so I have a better baseline and I'll be happy to report back the results.

I tried myself and I felt amazing for a couple of days but then I crashed probably from too much fruits juices. I added starch from pasta and rice and thing are stabilizing again. Thanks to this experiment I realized how bad meat can be for me infact with cheese my stomach is always flat, a tiny bit of meat or milk and I bloat so @Amarsh213 is spot on!

 

[Bad Linhat]

I tried myself and I felt amazing for a couple of days but then I crashed probably from too much fruits juices. I added starch from pasta and rice and thing are stabilizing again. Thanks to this experiment I realized how bad meat can be for me infact with cheese my stomach is always flat, a tiny bit of meat or milk and I bloat so @Amarsh213 is spot on!

Hi @Antonello
I'm italian too: where do you buy sheep and/or goat cheese ?
Are you able to eat enough proteins only on cheese ?

 

[Antonello]

Hi @Antonello
I'm italian too: where do you buy sheep and/or goat cheese ?
Are you able to eat enough proteins only on cheese ?

Hey bro, I don't do well with goat so I use cow cheese like fontina is my favourite and sheep like different forms of pecorino.
I'm in Nord Italy right now and few super market like Iper-coop and Esselunga carry high quality raw cheeses.
When I'm in South Italy is more easy buy directly from the farmer.
I also don't do well with soft cheese like mozzarella, ricotta ecc... So I always go for medium hard cheeses.
I added quail eggs to my daily regime because they have more lysine in the amino acid profile and they don't gives me allergy and bloating issue like chicken eggs.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Interesting. What about eating less tryptophan and also less fat?

You could try it, but it could start to swing blood sugar.

I think there is some really overblown beliefs about the Randall cycle, Confusing FFA with fat from meals, fat storage...etc. Fat absorbs very slowly over time, and digest slowly as well.

Muscles, heart..utilize these things at rest
Fat is a log
Sugar is the spark

I'm not saying eat a stick of butter for breakfast, but some fattier cheese is fine.

Chuggin casein protein powder and sugar juice for breakfast is going to cause all sorts of issues, you will feel terrible and starving in no time.

alot of things prefer fatty acids, if your not eating them, they will be released in FFA fourm, likly PUFA. This is why people start to have issues with low fat.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Lowering tryptophan consumption and increasing calcium really begins to break through a lot of the negative adaptations of PUFA, prolactin, Serotonin, Learned Helplessness..etc.

Adding calcium carbonate to your juices can begin to do this as well.

Be careful at first the higher dopamine can seem like a lot different headspace to you then your use too.

It took me awhile to get used to it. Once you have a trtophan heavy meal like some milk/eggs alot of the trytophan by products and breakdowns will make you feel very bad

 

[Bad Linhat]

Hey bro, I don't do well with goat so I use cow cheese like fontina is my favourite and sheep like different forms of pecorino.
I'm in Nord Italy right now and few super market like Iper-coop and Esselunga carry high quality raw cheeses.
When I'm in South Italy is more easy buy directly from the farmer.
I also don't do well with soft cheese like mozzarella, ricotta ecc... So I always go for medium hard cheeses.
I added quail eggs to my daily regime because they have more lysine in the amino acid profile and they don't gives me allergy and bloating issue like chicken eggs.

Thanks a lot !!!
I will look at Esselunga (I live in north Italy)

 

[DaveFoster]

You could try it, but it could start to swing blood sugar.

I think there is some really overblown beliefs about the Randall cycle, Confusing FFA with fat from meals, fat storage...etc. Fat absorbs very slowly over time, and digest slowly as well.

Muscles, heart..utilize these things at rest
Fat is a log
Sugar is the spark

I'm not saying eat a stick of butter for breakfast, but some fattier cheese is fine.

Chuggin casein protein powder and sugar juice for breakfast is going to cause all sorts of issues, you will feel terrible and starving in no time.

alot of things prefer fatty acids, if your not eating them, they will be released in FFA fourm, likly PUFA. This is why people start to have issues with low fat.

Consumption of whole fruit rather than juices, and tubers rather than grains would minimize fluctuations in blood sugar.

 

[iPeat]

Be careful at first the higher dopamine can seem like a lot different headspace to you then your use too.

Definitely agree with this. Every time I experiment with Lisuride, I manage to work up to 3 or 4 drops per day before I start to feel like I'm going crazy and stop for a few weeks. By crazy, I mean dissociated. For me it sort of feels like I'm controlling a human-shaped robot. I feel this sometimes with just diet alone, but Lisuride really kicks it into high gear if I take too much.

 

[Antonello]

Definitely agree with this. Every time I experiment with Lisuride, I manage to work up to 3 or 4 drops per day before I start to feel like I'm going crazy and stop for a few weeks. By crazy, I mean dissociated. For me it sort of feels like I'm controlling a human-shaped robot. I feel this sometimes with just diet alone, but Lisuride really kicks it into high gear if I take too much.

Like more alert and thus more insomnia?

 

[iPeat]

Like more alert and thus more insomnia?

Fortunately, I don't have insomnia. I've been working on lowering my serotonin/raising dopamine lately and the only real effect I've noticed is the "different headspace" as Amarsh mentioned.

Not to hijack the thread, but if you're looking to lower serotonin, lysine has been working great for me (500mg twice per day). I've tried nearly everything mentioned on this forum and almost nothing has a clear effect on me, so I'm excited that something is actually doing something.

I've been wheezing at night lately (not sure why), and lysine will stop it in around 15 minutes. I think it's also causing me to lose some weight. I'm down a few pounds and I've changed nothing bu that. I know it's not Peat-friendly but maybe worth a shot.

 

[Antonello]

@Amarsh213 Do you take B2 everyday?

 

[Deleted member 5487]

@Amarsh213 Do you take B2 everyday?

Yeah, it's a powerful serotonin antagonist both in the brain and body. It completely stops edema, which seems to be brought on from tryptophan consumption both from his observations and mine. Serotonin seems to really slow thing down
Milk bloating is from Tryptophan, not liquid.

It makes me warmer after meals.

Just don't take with collagen hydro slate. Together will abolish serotonin in the brain and make you feel quite horrible.

 

[Antonello]

Yeah, it's a powerful serotonin antagonist both in the brain and body. It completely stops edema, which seems to be brought on from tryptophan consumption both from his observations and mine. Serotonin seems to really slow thing down
Milk bloating is from Tryptophan, not liquid.

It makes me warmer after meals.

Just don't take with collagen hydro slate. Together will abolish serotonin in the brain and make you feel quite horrible.

B2 it's too powerful after two consecutive days gives me insomnia from high catecholamines and all the benefits vanish.
Do you use other B vitamins?

 

[Bad Linhat]

@Amarsh213
Can you please share your macros for this approach ?

 

[Dino D]

Im long on this forum and this thread is also great, but i still cant help myself...
How to get my proteins in (without tryptophan) without, meat, eggs, legumes, whey, casein... dairy (that is not good for me) and there is no gelatin around me!!! So i cant find a solution...

1. So what are easily availible protein sources low in tryptophan that arent dairy and gelatin?
2. I think cottage chease is ok for me, more or less,,, but im confused, is it low or high tryptophan?,,, what else could I eat that is maybe higher in tryptophan but not that high?
3. Could adding bcaa with every meal fix the tryptophan problem?

 

[Cirion]

Im long on this forum and this thread is also great, but i still cant help myself...
How to get my proteins in (without tryptophan) without, meat, eggs, legumes, whey, casein... dairy (that is not good for me) and there is no gelatin around me!!! So i cant find a solution...

1. So what are easily availible protein sources low in tryptophan that arent dairy and gelatin?
2. I think cottage chease is ok for me, more or less,,, but im confused, is it low or high tryptophan?,,, what else could I eat that is maybe higher in tryptophan but not that high?
3. Could adding bcaa with every meal fix the tryptophan problem?

Hey man, I just posted a very interesting plot from my personal database in my main database thread.

What you see here are 14-day rolling averages (in attempt to eliminate the scatter/noise of random data). What I discovered is that there is a strong correlation between fernstrom ratio and metabolism as measured by pulses and temps. I find I have to be between 0.02 and 0.03 in fernstrom ratio. This is only possible via a mix of very low fernstrom foods like beef, gelatin but you can also drive it down like you said using targeted amino supplements like BCAA.