Weight Loss: Starch And Trytophan Are What Are Stopping You

[redsun]

Im long on this forum and this thread is also great, but i still cant help myself...
How to get my proteins in (without tryptophan) without, meat, eggs, legumes, whey, casein... dairy (that is not good for me) and there is no gelatin around me!!! So i cant find a solution...

1. So what are easily availible protein sources low in tryptophan that arent dairy and gelatin?
2. I think cottage chease is ok for me, more or less,,, but im confused, is it low or high tryptophan?,,, what else could I eat that is maybe higher in tryptophan but not that high?
3. Could adding bcaa with every meal fix the tryptophan problem?

Easy, meat and eggs. The only reason you would avoid muscle meats is if you are worried about phosphorus and even then you can just take a calcium supplement to help offset(I dont take calcium personally). Meat and eggs tryptophan levels are similar to cheese. Check out my posts in the first page of this thread where I show that meat is in fact not high in tryptophan.

 

[Dino D]

Easy, meat and eggs. The only reason you would avoid muscle meats is if you are worried about phosphorus and even then you can just take a calcium supplement to help offset(I dont take calcium personally). Meat and eggs tryptophan levels are similar to cheese. Check out my posts in the first page of this thread where I show that meat is in fact not high in tryptophan.

I saw that... but i know for.shure that if i eat more.meat, especialy red meat, or red fatty meat, my digestion slows down, it fells like it really stops and whatever i eat just gets stuck in my belly... without meat i also feel bad and weak, hungry... so the takeaway was eating meat once a day, or twice but ,,weaker" meat like chicken or even some fish... i think diary has similar effects... then comes constipation and more.bloating... i tried eating it with fat, or carbs or juice but it seams eating.meat alone is the best for digestion but not that satysfieing... i didnt.try it maybe with loots of sugar and juice...
I never focuses on calcium, dairy isnt working, i never noticed anything from calcium suplements

 

[Cirion]

I found carb/protein ratio is hugely important also. I also find even too much low fernstrom meat/protein is a problem, and must be balanced w/ carbs.

 

[Dino D]

The harder the food is, like hard or tough red meat, that is even harder to cut down with a knife or with handa the more it gets stuck in me... from ,,alive food" like unripe food i super bloat... also from diary but not so much,so its the easiest to digest things like soft rice, and maybe cooked fish or some.well cooked.veggies, chicken can also be ok... still i.feel that proteins are.helping me in.many other aspects...maybe fish could work but its hard for me to organize 100-150 gram of protein from fish on a daily basis, also after eating fish more often i start super hating it and it just seams awefull to.taste, so i think it also isnt that good for me...

Once i drank prune juice 2liters, and orange juice two.liters in one hour, i got super diareha and felt amazing after it, and soo light, i went on the socer training that day and i topped all of my time records in running, and i played so.easily with guys that were so mich ahed of me in condicion, but not that day, i was so light... meat stops that!!!!

 

[Dino D]

I found carb/protein ratio is hugely important also. I also find even too much low fernstrom meat/protein is a problem, and must be balanced w/ carbs.

Maybe if i would after lets say meat and some rice drink a super sweet and sugered juice and sugared coffee it would digest like crazy... but then the hunger and satiation problems comes, also tu much sugar puts me out of every balance, coffee also, even one cup can make problema for me... its hard... i know youre a super carb guy but that does not.work for me, i see its not working for many guys here... still, thx i.hope we both find our way :)

 

[LUH 3417]

The harder the food is, like hard or tough red meat, that is even harder to cut down with a knife or with handa the more it gets stuck in me... from ,,alive food" like unripe food i super bloat... also from diary but not so much,so its the easiest to digest things like soft rice, and maybe cooked fish or some.well cooked.veggies, chicken can also be ok... still i.feel that proteins are.helping me in.many other aspects...maybe fish could work but its hard for me to organize 100-150 gram of protein from fish on a daily basis, also after eating fish more often i start super hating it and it just seams awefull to.taste, so i think it also isnt that good for me...

Once i drank prune juice 2liters, and orange juice two.liters in one hour, i got super diareha and felt amazing after it, and soo light, i went on the socer training that day and i topped all of my time records in running, and i played so.easily with guys that were so mich ahed of me in condicion, but not that day, i was so light... meat stops that!!!!

Try ground beef. I cook it with garlic and cilantro and a little bit of water to make a sauce from its own fat and flavor. No need to cut into anything. I also don’t like hard meat like steaks, they also bother to digestion, but ground beef is so easy for me to eat. Carrot salad has eliminated constipatjon for me. You could try antibiotics too, my digestion feels much better after 10 days on minocycline.

 

[lampofred]

Once i drank prune juice 2liters, and orange juice two.liters in one hour, i got super diareha and felt amazing after it, and soo light, i went on the socer training that day and i topped all of my time records in running, and i played so.easily with guys that were so mich ahed of me in condicion, but not that day, i was so light... meat stops that!!!!

Maybe because meat powerfully stimulates cortisol which stimulates serotonin, which will raise your temps in a destructive way and make you manic in your head but reduce your physical capacity and coordination.

 

[Dino D]

Try ground beef. I cook it with garlic and cilantro and a little bit of water to make a sauce from its own fat and flavor. No need to cut into anything. I also don’t like hard meat like steaks, they also bother to digestion, but ground beef is so easy for me to eat. Carrot salad has eliminated constipatjon for me. You could try antibiotics too, my digestion feels much better after 10 days on minocycline.

1.Ground beef, check, so simply but i never had that idea, greeeeat! Because of my english i didnt know what ground means, so i never noticed before :)
2. Carrots, ok like always i could focus more on it
3. Antibiotics, i know about them, but i remained sceptical there, the only place where antibiotics arent a super devil is here... maybe they even work but my sceptical mind still thinks that we dont know all the effects and that they could do some nasty harm... so i will not go antibiotics, they are my last option and I m not there yet...

 

[Dino D]

Maybe because meat powerfully stimulates cortisol which stimulates serotonin, which will raise your temps in a destructive way and make you manic in your head but reduce your physical capacity and coordination.

So, what to eat :) ?

 

[lampofred]

So, what to eat :) ?

Well meat itself isn't the problem, it's the fact that you are consuming only the muscle, which is unbalanced and low quality. If you can somehow eat the whole animal, like when the animal is small in the case of small fish, eggs, snails, etc. or if you go to ethnic grocery stores that sell all the parts of the animal, you can eat meat in a way that is not stressful. Or if that sounds a bit gross, you can lower prolactin enough to be able to handle milk or drink lactase-free milk. My guess is that high prolactin is the cause of milk indigestion.

 

[Cirion]

Maybe if i would after lets say meat and some rice drink a super sweet and sugered juice and sugared coffee it would digest like crazy... but then the hunger and satiation problems comes, also tu much sugar puts me out of every balance, coffee also, even one cup can make problema for me... its hard... i know youre a super carb guy but that does not.work for me, i see its not working for many guys here... still, thx i.hope we both find our way :)

I have come to realize that sugar isn't as satiating as starch or other foods for a very simple reason. It ramps up your metabolism to 10/10. When your metabolism is running at max, yes, you will go through fuel quickly, and thus need to consume more fuel. Once you consume enough of it, you WILL finally be satiated, it just takes a lot longer than from starch. But starch also makes you fat and sluggish, which I've proven to myself with data also. I contend that people go wrong with sugar because they under-eat. They aren't used to having a fast metabolism. I do guarantee that a 3000 calorie diet compromised of 80% sugar absolutely will leave you hungry and wanting more, because 3000 calories is nothing lol.

Think of it this way. When you're hypothyroid, you're like a used car that takes 15 seconds to go 0-60.

When you fix your metabolism, you're like a super sports car that can go 0-60 in 3-4 seconds, naturally, will go through fuel a lot quicker.

It is in fact the foods that satiate you on less calories that are directly lowering the metabolic rate. Meat and starch are the two foods that satiate on the lowest # of calories but are also the two foods that lower your metabolism drastically with excessive intake. Same with fibrous foods like broccoli, brown rice, quinoa. My data shows that some meat, some starch, some fiber is acceptable, or even beneficial, but their level of benefit falls off a cliff quickly, so to speak.

 

[redsun]

Well meat itself isn't the problem, it's the fact that you are consuming only the muscle, which is unbalanced and low quality. If you can somehow eat the whole animal, like when the animal is small in the case of small fish, eggs, snails, etc. or if you go to ethnic grocery stores that sell all the parts of the animal, you can eat meat in a way that is not stressful. Or if that sounds a bit gross, you can lower prolactin enough to be able to handle milk or drink lactase-free milk. My guess is that high prolactin is the cause of milk indigestion.

Muscle meat is not inheritantly stressful. All proteins increase cortisol unless consumed with adequate carbohydrates, doesnt matter what it is. The argument is usually muscle meat has too little glycine but this is also false if you look at the data, at least for beef:

100g of Beef, top sirloin, separable lean and fat, trimmed to 1/8" fat, all grades, raw has 529mg Methionine and 1236mg Glycine. Even if the fact that is muscle meat still bothers you, theres always gelatin or glycine supplements.

Read More https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3792/2#ixzz5rE8if2hK

 

[lampofred]

Muscle meat is not inheritantly stressful. All proteins increase cortisol unless consumed with adequate carbohydrates, doesnt matter what it is. The argument is usually muscle meat has too little glycine but this is also false if you look at the data, at least for beef:

100g of Beef, top sirloin, separable lean and fat, trimmed to 1/8" fat, all grades, raw has 529mg Methionine and 1236mg Glycine. Even if the fact that is muscle meat still bothers you, theres always gelatin or glycine supplements.

Read More Beef, top sirloin, separable lean and fat, trimmed to 1/8" fat, all grades, raw [Sirloin steak, Sirloin strip] Nutrition Facts & Calories

I agree that from a numbers perspective it's possible to rationalize the consumption of meat, but as Dr. Peat said, from a biological perspective muscle meat consumption doesn't make sense physiologically. Your body is unable to distinguish from cow muscle and human muscle. When a high amount of muscle meat enters your blood stream, your body thinks its own your tissues that are being broken down as a result of starvation and as a result, adaptively shuts down the thyroid.

I have experienced this many times (in contrast to milk protein), so at least in my case, this is not just theory. It actually happens.

So I agree that all proteins stimulate cortisol like you mentioned but muscle meat is unique in how it activates negative feedback systems to turn off your thyroid and increase serotonin/cortisol over time.

 

[redsun]

I agree that from a numbers perspective it's possible to rationalize the consumption of meat, but as Dr. Peat said, muscle meat consumption doesn't make sense physiologically. Your body is unable to distinguish from cow muscle and human muscle. When a high amount of muscle meat enters your blood stream, your body thinks its own your tissues that are being broken down as a result of starvation and as a result, adaptively shuts down the thyroid.

I have experienced this many times (in contrast to milk protein), so at least in my case, this is not just theory. It actually happens.

So I agree that all proteins stimulate cortisol like you mentioned but muscle meat is unique in how it activates negative feedback systems to turn off your thyroid and increase serotonin/cortisol over time.

Well thankfully muscle meat never does enter the bloodstream, human or otherwise. When catabolizing our own muscle, amino acids enter the bloodstream. As when digesting protein, muscle meat or milk or eggs, its not entering the blood.

Its broken down into seperate amino acids, there is no such thing as muscle meat amino acids or milk amino acids in the blood, only difference is amino acid content.

You are basically suggesting when a large influx of amino acids enter the bloodstream(and for whatever reason the amino acids of meat are different?) your body thinks its catabolizing itself and shuts down anabolic hormones like thyroid. Your brain cannot recognize the difference between whether amino acids from digestion came from milk or meat. Your brain does know when it is catabolizing itself though, it is what is controlling it based on biological needs of glucose among other things.

There are other differences between say milk and meat that you can argue for, like Ca:P ratio but this makes no sense. Eating meat is anabolic as is eating any protein, you cannot say it shuts down thyroid unless its eaten without adequate carbs which again is not exclusive to muscle meat.

 

[Vinny]

Is there research for this

Maybe because meat powerfully stimulates cortisol

and for this?

which stimulates serotonin

And is it for ANY kind of meat?

 

[lampofred]

Well thankfully muscle meat never does enter the bloodstream, human or otherwise. When catabolizing our own muscle, amino acids enter the bloodstream. As when digesting protein, muscle meat or milk or eggs, its not entering the blood.

Its broken down into seperate amino acids, there is no such thing as muscle meat amino acids or milk amino acids in the blood, only difference is amino acid content.

You are basically suggesting when a large influx of amino acids enter the bloodstream(and for whatever reason the amino acids of meat are different?) your body thinks its catabolizing itself and shuts down anabolic hormones like thyroid. Your brain cannot recognize the difference between whether amino acids from digestion came from milk or meat. Your brain does know when it is catabolizing itself though, it is what is controlling it based on biological needs of glucose among other things.

There are other differences between say milk and meat that you can argue for, like Ca:P ratio but this makes no sense. Eating meat is anabolic as is eating any protein, you cannot say it shuts down thyroid unless its eaten without adequate carbs which again is not exclusive to muscle meat.

Come on man you know what I'm trying to say. There aren't literal chunks of meat in your bloodstream, but that amino acid breakdown that enters your blood stream as a result of digesting muscle meat is the same as the amino acid breakdown that enters your bloodstream when you are under stress and catabolizing your muscle tissues. The amino acid breakdown that enters your bloodstream as a result of digesting milk is different from the amino acid ratios of muscle meat and does not cause the adaptive thyroid shutdown.

 

[lampofred]

Is there research for this

and for this?


And is it for ANY kind of meat?

RP's articles and physiological reasoning (ha. I used the fancy word he used in his newsletter).

Not for any kind of meat, just for pure muscle meat. Fish, gelatin, eggs, any instance where you can eat the entire organism or at least eat parts of an organism's proteins other than just its muscle mass shouldn't have the anti thyroid effect of prolonged consumption of only muscle meat as your protein source.

 

[Vinny]

Not for any kind of meat, just for pure muscle meat. Fish, gelatin, eggs, any instance where you can eat the entire organism or at least eat parts of an organism's proteins other than just its muscle mass shouldn't have the anti thyroid effect of prolonged consumption of only muscle meat as your protein source.

Thanks

 

[redsun]

Come on man you know what I'm trying to say. There aren't literal chunks of meat in your bloodstream, but that amino acid breakdown that enters your blood stream as a result of digesting muscle meat is the same as the amino acid breakdown that enters your bloodstream when you are under stress. The amino acid breakdown that enters your bloodstream as a result of digesting milk is different from the amino acid ratios of muscle meat and does not cause the adaptive thyroid shutdown.

I do not have symptoms of thyroid slowdown or shutdown as you say from muscle meat because I eat it with adequate carbs. I wont disregard your experience, but I definitely do not experience the same. I'm inclined to take Dr. Peat's word for it, but the reasoning is shaky. Eating food, as long as its the right ratio of protein and carbs, is generally always anabolic and will increase thyroid hormone T3, excluding multiple things we know are bad for thyroid, PUFA, too much phosphorus, too much fat in general, etc... I never heard of this not being the case and never seen any evidence of it either. Organs are better than muscle because they are much more nutrient dense not because its an organ. But will agree to disagree.

Is there research for this

and for this?


And is it for ANY kind of meat?

Meat will stimulate cortisol without adequate carbs as it lowers blood sugar and therefore can also increase serotonin

 

[YourUniverse]

Im long on this forum and this thread is also great, but i still cant help myself...
How to get my proteins in (without tryptophan) without, meat, eggs, legumes, whey, casein... dairy (that is not good for me) and there is no gelatin around me!!! So i cant find a solution...

1. So what are easily availible protein sources low in tryptophan that arent dairy and gelatin?
2. I think cottage chease is ok for me, more or less,,, but im confused, is it low or high tryptophan?,,, what else could I eat that is maybe higher in tryptophan but not that high?
3. Could adding bcaa with every meal fix the tryptophan problem?

oxtail soup