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Foolproof Nutrition Protocol For Life-long Weight Loss/PUFA Depletion

Discussion in 'Weight' started by jamies33, Jan 27, 2019.

  1. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    How long have you been doing less than 2g? Thanks for this, gives me confidence to keep at it. I am trying to get to consistently below 1g a day now. Did 0.8g yesterday.
     
  2. Rafael Lao Wai

    Rafael Lao Wai Member

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    I was doing probably 4 or 5 grams about a year and half ago, but one year ago I decided to go lower, so it's been about an year now.. I remember cutting out the fat from the beef bone broth I was making, which wasn't very solid even when refrigerated, meaning that it was more unsaturated than I initially though.Also every time I ate a significant amount of this fat, my ankles and my wrists would feel like they were kinda burning, so I think that was the PUFA increasing my inflammation in these places. Nice job! 0,8 is really low! In the future I plan on going as low as that. You mentioned your diet right now is mostly skim milk and fruit, right? Maybe your lack of energy has to do with your creatine intake. The significant food sources are meats in general, of which red meat is the best source. If you don't want to consume red meat for it's PUFA contente, you could try a creatine powder( purebulk sells it at a good price and they have the reputation of producing good products).
     
  3. Waremu

    Waremu Member

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    Well of course there is nuance, and yeah, I’m not talking about already lean people doing low PUFA, but people who have a decent amount of fat weight still who do that. So for them I am not convinced it can be done in a few months or even a year unless maybe very low calorie dieting. From my own experience this has been far from the case, and others have shared similar experiences. When I went into Peating, I didn’t start noticing more improvements until I was about my second year into Peating, which is apparently the half life of PUFA in tissue. Some impeobments like better sleep I noticed my first year in, but they were few. I’ve noticed a few people say the same thing on here as well, that usually about 2-3 years in things noticeably got better for them. I have been pretty strict in Peating and I did lose some weight going low fat, but it was likely due to keeping calories and fat low because if I’d go over 2300 calories I’d begin to gain weight. So my metabolism didn’t increase then. I just lost weight by cutting calories and fat. But by now, I can eat over 3500 calories and maintain my weight and I can lose weight easily on more calories. Only a little more fat weight with minor increase in muscle, so I haven’t put in much more weight since then. So clearly my metabolism has increased and it is likely due to PUFA depletion, but that took a few years for me to get to this point. I never got to this point after a few months or low fat. I think this is a very good metric to pay attention to, because Ray has stated that as PUFA tissue saturated decreases, usually metabolism picks up.

    Do you know how Zach’s was so sure that he was depleting PUFA to the point of producing new mead acid? Was he burning more and more calories? Because unless he was measuring it somehow I don’t see how it’s possible to know for sure. I would say fat loss, mead acid production, and increased caloric requirements would all be pretty good signs of hitting that point where PUFA saturation is so low. But a very low fat low PUFA diet for a few months would often cause weight loss because fat intake is very low anyway. So because of that, I think it’s hard to tell whether someone is truly that depleted in PUFA from just a few months of low fat. Also, I believe one user pointed out here that rats and monkies have slightly different PUFA metabolism than humans. So that may also be a factor when comparing animal studies on PUFA depletion to humans. That’s a assuming they are correct on that. I think to date I only have seen some evidence that rats handle PUFA somewhat differently.

    But all I know isn’t that my experience definitely hasn’t been as easy as going low fat and low PUFA for a few months. A relatively lean person probably could see big improvements probably in their first year though. I spent years damagingly my body, so it seems to make sense that things won’t reverse in just a few months. I try to keep that mindset because I find it healthier and more realistic. But that said, where I am now compared to where I have come from is a night and day difference. Now that my metabolism is higher and most health issues gone, I’m going to try to focus on cutting and maintaining as much of my muscle I have as possible. I don’t think it will be that hard cutting on more calories either. But I focused not on getting in better health before doing that because I don’t think I’d be able to do it now if I started years ago when I was in a much worse shape.

    But hey, if someone has depleted PUFA and lost fat in a few months and that can happen, then that’s great! Just doesn’t match up with my experience as a veteran who has been at this since 2012.
     
  4. Waremu

    Waremu Member

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    Yeah, it was for me way too much. If I could go back and do it all over again I’d have began doing it more strict.
     
  5. Waremu

    Waremu Member

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    Yep. That’s what I have been doing but now just have liver instead of eggs because it has way more nutrients and less PUFA. Also one can fry their eggs in hydrogenated coconut oil if they want to minimize PUFA and are not doing very low fat.
     
  6. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    Sigh, taking years is certainly not what I want to hear, that requires some hardcore patience. But I figure it's what I need to do, there's no way to speed it up short of harshly cutting calories which I don't want to do. My mom thinks I'm crazy and she always asks if I'm feeling better or why I keep at it while not seeing major results yet. Maybe I am crazy. lol

    Zachs lost 45 lb of fat in 3 months, so that's the main way he did it (via cutting calories). He didn't need to measure PUFA's, if one loses total body fat stores, a lot of PUFA will be lost by definition as well.

    You're right though, the long game is more realistic, so that's why I'm taking that approach.

    What gave you the patience/persistence to keep at it? Just trust in RP I guess?
     
  7. Waremu

    Waremu Member

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    45 pounds of fat in 3 months?! That’s almost 4 pounds per week! That is a lot of ‘fat’ to lose in such a short period of time. Doesn’t sound very safe to me to lose it at that rate. I’d have lost a bunch of muscle. But hey, if he felt he needed to then props to him. Yeah, if you do that kind of more extreme fat loss plan then you probably will lose it faster..but don’t think Ray recommends that. I personally wouldn’t but again, to each his own.

    Lol. Try already following Peat for a few years thinking you have been strict on PUFA only to fineness out that you haven’t been that strict and that the intake he recommends is much lower and then having to try at it with much a lower intake for a few more years to see if it benefits you. I was saying to myself I couldn’t do it. But that was necessary for me because it made me confront my demons I had with food. I think I am at a much healthier place now with food which makes this much easier to do. I alsk going lower on fat in conjunction to other things really healed my liver and that helped in weight loss as well. My caffeine tolerance has gone way up.
     
  8. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    I bet it wasn't actually 45 lb in pure fat, probably just 45 lb of weight loss which happened to include water weight as well because yeah, 4 lb of fat loss a week is impossible with the calories he was intaking a day (2500). But yeah, I wouldn't try for that much weight loss either.

    I am running into the same thing, but luckily it only took me a few months to realize my PUFA intake was way high, lol.

    What were the "other things" you did to heal your liver? My caffeine tolerance is very bad currently. Any more than a cup or two doesn't sit well with me. Sometimes even just two cups doesn't sit well with me.
     
  9. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    Thanks yeah I found myself craving meat actually, after cutting it out, which means I probably have some deficiencies. I am just waiting for my liverwurst to arrive in the mail. I hadn't had any meat in 2 weeks, which is probably too long to go without any (organ) meat. Probably should have a small serving at least once-twice a week. I am picky with what I eat though, so I wasn't going to just eat any beef, liverwurst is great because it has kidney, heart, and liver.

    Yeah right now pretty much all I have is hydrogenated coconut oil, fruit, maple syrup, and skim milk. Pretty boring lol
     
  10. Spondive

    Spondive Member

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    Thanks for the post I seem to do better with less sugar and higher fat.. I tried very low fat and high carbohydrate and had difficult time sleeping and being shaky and felt very unsatisfied and unhappy
     
  11. OP
    jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    You're welcome. You would do best to minimize PUFA to as close to 0 as possible as you implement you chosen dietary protocol - I use cheese, for many reasons, not lost are that it is available, portable, simple, and all-around nutritious, with low enough PUFA for my current goals.

    I encourage you to be creative - my food selections are not the food selections, and please share your discoveries :)
     
  12. Waremu

    Waremu Member

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    Yeah, I doubt it was pure fat either. But even with water weight considered, that's too much weight in my opinion to lose in a healthy way. 1 pound per week average usually is what is considered the healthy range. You def are lucky you didn't spend years eating more PUFA than you thought. But I still think I had benefits lowering my PUFA even though I wasn't eating as low as low as I had originally imagined.

    I pretty much ate very low fat, ate a slight caloric deficit, walked a lot every day, and took vitamin K2 (along with A and D) with my highest fat meals. Plenty of gelatin, no aspirin, etc. I consumed a fair amount of caffeine as well, but spread it across the whole day. Started at 150 mg caffeine with each meal every 3 hours and slowly worked my way up to 200mg caffeine per meal, then 250mg, then 300mg. Taurine and L-Theanine was taken with caffeine to help protect GABA decreasing which can increase cortisol, etc., which is bad for liver. No starches, just sugar/fruit juice, and dextrose with some fructose after a workout. All those things combined healed my liver. My sugar metabolism was greatly improved.


    Also, as a side note, I make sure to get some iron from meat or oysters at least a few times per week. My iron got way too low Peating and I think this is a common mistake newbies make to Peat. Peat is very much against too much iron, but he still says iron in small amounts is still important as it is still essential for the body. I was feeling extremely fatigued and weak and depressed and had extreme muscle twitching and it was all due to low iron. I did a few years of mostly dairy and very little meat and high aspirin and coffee so that really depleted my iron I think. I also lose blood often because I get a lot of small cuts. Not a lot of blood lost, but over time little bits of blood here and there add up to an already low Iron diet I am sure.

    Oddly enough, even on my very low PUFA diet of 0.5 grams of PUFA per day, I can have days where I trade in my OJ for meat eat 97% lean ground beef/3% fat, and still stay at or under 0.5 grams of PUFA per day. For example, with the amount of lean beef with skim milk below, I'd be at 0.4 grams of PUFA. Thats about half a pound, which is a nice amount too. So on days where I need some extra iron and maybe crave a little meat, I could throw in some lean beef and even an oyster and still stay at or under 0.5 gram PUFA. And I am eating my nutritional needs on that low PUFA intake (choline, b vitamins, protein, glycine, vitamin c, iron). I see a lot of people say it is hard getting your nutritional needs on under 1 gram of PUFA per day but I don't see how that is true since I am able to at half a gram per day. Milk alone has like 90% of all your nutritional needs, so a little OJ and coffee and liver/meat added covers pretty much all my bases. 3% fat lean ground beef has like only 0.3 grams of PUFA in 139 grams or half a pound loaf. The meat also helps keep the milk based low PUFA diet from getting boring for me. But that said, I am mentally strong to do such a diet because I have reshaped my mind in how I look at food and I don't have an emotional connection to food like I did. I see it as a source of energy and not enjoyment, so that changes everything for me.
     

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  13. Jem Oz

    Jem Oz Member

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    Just read through this interesting thread. Thanks for the legwork @jamies33

    A question: any idea how many grams of carbs would be appropriate in Phase I?

    And is there a place for milk in Phase I?
     
  14. OP
    jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    Its hard to say - I really dont want to present an iron-clad rule to follow, because I would prefer people to try to feel their bodies and what it is asking for. I'd prefer general guidelines.

    I can say that I personally felt best on ~50g of carbs in Phase I of the OP, which included red peppers, cucumbers, milk, and whole oranges.
     
  15. OP
    jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    Interesting note - during phase I, I had insatiable cravings for carbonated drinks. Diet sprite, Fresca, diet lemonades, etc. I think this was because the low-sugar diet was not producing much carbon dioxide, and I was being urged to get some externally! The cravings were so focused and intense, I almost had to make that part of the dietary guidelines in the OP.
     
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