Low-Fat Diet, Hypocaloric Diet, Weight Loss, Metabolism

[thebigpeatowski]

[ moderator edit: thread separated from PUFA Depletion Can (probably) Be Accomplished In 30 Days! ]

.....

So I feel absolutely compelled to speak up here. Please understand that I don't have a scientific background or mind and I'm only relaying my personal results from my experiment. As a frame of reference, prior to Peat I was on a high fat low-carb diet for several years and ate a ton of PUFA during those years. My metabolism tanked and I started gaining weight (among many of other unpleasant side effects). I Googled metabolism, came across Peat's work and immediately jumped in head first. Within 5 months or so I had gained close to 30 more pounds on top of what I had already gained. It was downright scary, depressing and I was afraid that my metabolism was permanently broken.

I know that Peat believes losing weight slowly is more healthy/safer and I would have to agree, especially if you aren't taking thyroid meds. However, I was already on thyroid medication and so I figured what do I have to lose (except the obvious)? I figured I had enough body fat that if my body needed fat then it could pull from my ample reserves. My mitochondria were already mush, so to speak, and I was suffering.

I decided to do exactly this: I cut ALL fat from my diet, keeping it as low as possible (under 20 grams per day) and certainly NO PUFA. I ate 100 grams of LEAN protein (sometimes more) and massive amounts of sugar, ripe fruits and OJ. I paid close attention to my calcium phosphorous ratio as well as other minerals and made certain that I got plenty of sunshine, vit. A, vit. K and especially vit. E with lots of Progest-E too.

Results were that I went from 170+ to exactly 132.0 lbs. over the summer. I lost NO muscle at all and did NO exercise beyond going for a walk once in a while. I used a lot of caffeine, b vitamins, fat free dairy and gelatin too. My diet was somewhat boring, after all fat is delicious. I am happy to say that I had no stress response whatsoever. On the few occasions when I strayed and ate PUFA I could definitely feel it the next day. My skin would go greasy and break out, weight loss would stall and I would get pronounced estrogen symptoms. It was that quick and VERY noticeable.

If one is quite strict, this works beautifully for removing fat while preserving muscle. I have had many health improvements that I must believe are due to PUFA depletion. I still need to lose 7 or 8 more pounds, but thinking that should be done with exercise.

I started adding (saturated animal) fat back in to my diet a month ago and I have NOT gained an ounce. I never EVER would have believed it was possible for a middle-aged hypothyroid woman, but this works!

I simply MUST agree with haidut's conclusion, that waiting four years isn't all-together necessary, I could definitely feel the difference within weeks. Having said all this, perhaps I will be on thyroid meds for four more years...or for life, who knows? I don't have any overt signs of metabolic damage, in fact on the contrary. My temps are up and I feel better now than I have in DECADES.

 

[visionofstrength]

Great! The purely academic question is, now that you have less total adipose tissue, if your adipose tissue were tested, would you still have a high ratio of PUFA, and will you continue to have a high ratio for 3-4 years? In order to determine this, you would actually need to have a sample of your adipose tissue removed and measured. Not recommending this!

What matters is you feel better, and when you feel better, Peat think this results from the increased CO2 level in your blood. It's as if you had adapted to living at a higher altitude, where fat loss and more energy would naturally result from the air you would breathe up high.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Yes, I had asked you (in the Getting Ripped thread, I think) how to test PUFA in tissue and you explained the process....not too keen on that at all, so I definitely won't be having tissue samples taken. *shudders*

Yes, I feel better. I am warmer and my eyebrows grew back! And lots of other fun metabolic improvements....

 

[Blossom]

I don't always eat cereal but when I do I like mom's best cereals crispy cocoa rice. They use coconut oil.

 

[messtafarian]

I wish I could eat a fat-free diet. I am just *so hungry* and nervous when I live without fat; I want to eat nonstop. If it weren't for that I would start tomorrow.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I will admit it's NO fun and quite bland. I ate more protein to curb the hunger.

 

[Zachs]

Hi guys, I was directed here by Max219. I have been a long time (relatively speaking) proponent of Ray Peats philosophy on diet. I posted under Zach at MDA forums for a long time trying to sway tides from low carb dieting to high, I eventually got banned several times..

Anyway I wanted to share my experience recently since its basically exactly what you guys are proposing. I decided in late spring to do a stint of zero fat dieting. At first I did a vegan version because I am also into fruitarianism and wanted to give a raw till 4 type diet a try. So for about 2 months I ate only orange juice, bananas, potatoes, sweet potatoes, squash, assorted fruits and few veggies, rice and rice noodles, zero fat sorbet and other assorted desserts and some wheat products, mostly date bagels. I also used quite a bit of maple syrup and drank a bit of coffee. I saw drastic weight loss and I was eating close to 3000 calories a day which was tough! I went from 203 to 178. I dropped pants size from 36 to 32. I also lost a decent amount of muscle mass and was not feeling like I was recovering effectively from workouts. I scraped the vegan stuff, added back in 40g gelatin a day and 56G protein a day from none fat dairy. I continued to lean out fast and got down to an all time low of 168. I than added back in some fat from dairy, chocolate and coconut. That leads up to now, I have held steady on my bodyfat % while drastically adding back on muscle mass and density.

I do not have any before shots because I wasn't really doing an experiment in fat loss, just wanted to feel healthier. I do have current shots.

But overall in 5 months I have had a total fat loss of 35lbs, pants size 36 to a loose 32, shirt size large to a tight medium, complete elimination of inflammation and training related soreness, more muscle mass than I did before I started (I also attribute this to Muscle Control but that's another topic) and most importantly a very pronounced boost in metabolism, cardiovascular output and youth hormones.

My next project is to see how lean I can get without any of the normal low bodyfat side effects.

I am very interested in this topic so if anyone has questions, let me know.

 

[jyb]

I wish I could eat a fat-free diet. I am just *so hungry* and nervous when I live without fat; I want to eat nonstop. If it weren't for that I would start tomorrow.

I never noticed any benefit by going low fat, I tried OJ/low fat milk for many months continuously. It wasn't 0% fat but pretty low, I used a bit of coconut oil as supplement and for the occasional cooking.

However, I've eliminated most anxiety/sleep problems by increasing fat significantly. That probably means less cortisol and hypoglycemia. I had already noticed that ice cream before bed was nice for sleeping, and after many experiments I have determined that it was the fat (dairy cream) rather than the sugar (sucrose slowly released with the fat) in ice cream that was helping sleep.

 

[Velve921]

Hi guys, I was directed here by Max219. I have been a long time (relatively speaking) proponent of Ray Peats philosophy on diet. I posted under Zach at MDA forums for a long time trying to sway tides from low carb dieting to high, I eventually got banned several times..

Anyway I wanted to share my experience recently since its basically exactly what you guys are proposing. I decided in late spring to do a stint of zero fat dieting. At first I did a vegan version because I am also into fruitarianism and wanted to give a raw till 4 type diet a try. So for about 2 months I ate only orange juice, bananas, potatoes, sweet potatoes, squash, assorted fruits and few veggies, rice and rice noodles, zero fat sorbet and other assorted desserts and some wheat products, mostly date bagels. I also used quite a bit of maple syrup and drank a bit of coffee. I saw drastic weight loss and I was eating close to 3000 calories a day which was tough! I went from 203 to 178. I dropped pants size from 36 to 32. I also lost a decent amount of muscle mass and was not feeling like I was recovering effectively from workouts. I scraped the vegan stuff, added back in 40g gelatin a day and 56G protein a day from none fat dairy. I continued to lean out fast and got down to an all time low of 168. I than added back in some fat from dairy, chocolate and coconut. That leads up to now, I have held steady on my bodyfat % while drastically adding back on muscle mass and density.

I do not have any before shots because I wasn't really doing an experiment in fat loss, just wanted to feel healthier. I do have current shots.

But overall in 5 months I have had a total fat loss of 35lbs, pants size 36 to a loose 32, shirt size large to a tight medium, complete elimination of inflammation and training related soreness, more muscle mass than I did before I started (I also attribute this to Muscle Control but that's another topic) and most importantly a very pronounced boost in metabolism, cardiovascular output and youth hormones.

My next project is to see how lean I can get without any of the normal low bodyfat side effects.

I am very interested in this topic so if anyone has questions, let me know.

How long have you been Peating for Zachs? Mentally how do you feel since eliminating all your pufas?

 

[max219]

If anyone wants to see how I attempt an extreme low fat diet, I'm logging it here. http://maxghealth.blogspot.com/

 

[Zachs]

I have been followinf Ray Peats work for three years maybe? I only ate this way off and on though. When i follow his advice i see dramatic improvements in digestive health which improves hormones, skin and inflammation. Mentally i feel much calmer and find it very easy to cope with stress and also able to problem solve in a high speed environment. Compared to a low carb, paleo type diet where i got all my health issues in the first place, i was also easily stressed, easily irritated and found it hard to recall words.

 

[Velve921]

If anyone wants to see how I attempt an extreme low fat diet, I'm logging it here. http://maxghealth.blogspot.com/

I'll be curious how you do Max, just out of curiousity why you adding processed carbs such as pasta?

 

[max219]

Mainly because my mom makes it sometimes, and its a cheap carbohydrate in case I get hungry. I'll probably end up with rice and potatoes mostly for starch however.

 

[superhuman]

Zachs: love it, im on the same path

 

[superhuman]

Mainly because my mom makes it sometimes, and its a cheap carbohydrate in case I get hungry. I'll probably end up with rice and potatoes mostly for starch however.

love your blod and that you are blogging about it.
When you said upping you starch in terms of vs fluid i dont think that is the problem.

I would say up your skim milk instead aka protein or other lean protein sources. I noticed that i needed more protein then i thought. So just add in 1 quart of skimmed milk and see how that feels so 34g added protein.

 

[Peata]

I'm also very interested in what you all are saying. I've lowered my fat intake to 20 g. or less per day for a week now (with a couple days where I went over due to eating out or at family house). I have done low fat like this before, the most recent in 2012, but that was before I discovered Peat. At that time, I was still eating pufa foods. So I noticed an improvement in my skin within the first 24 hours and it continued a few days, but I was still eating pufa foods and thyroid lowering foods, so I didn't feel or look great in the long term. But now I am doing it while eating Peat foods.

So, again in the first 24 hours of lowering my fat to 20 g. or less, I noticed my oily face regulated and it became soft and smooth without the coat of oil, and my acne started going away. Some of my bloat went away and my tom went pretty smoothly, although I was taking 800 mg. E during tom so that probably had effect too. On the two days this week that I ate more fat and pufa, my skin quality declined some.

I have not lost weight yet, but I should be able to give it a better shot this week since I can control my food choices and preparation of it better. Before I started the low fat, I was getting under 5 g. pufa most days, with occasional high days of up to 15 g. Now I am staying below 3 g. with occasional up to 5 g.

 

[Peata]

And I wanted to ask if anyone has updates.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Well, here's my update: It's been six months since I finished this experiment. I currently weigh 135 pounds, my ending weight was 132 last September, so I have gained back 3 pounds in 6 months. Please note this winter included many crazy holiday/playoff games parties with LOTS of eating and NO exercise.

My metabolism has not slowed one bit, on the contrary, I have had to DROP my thyroid medication. I might add back a tiny bit (far less than my previous dose if I do), but I'm still watching how my body reacts to the change in weather etc. so I might not add it back at all. Waking temp is 98.2 and reaches 99.3 to 99.5 in the afternoon. I also noticed that I need more liquids, whereas prior to my experiment too many liquids made me feel cold or disturbed my digestion.

My conclusion is that rapid fat loss in a severely PUFA restricted environment does NOT wreck metabolism...That Ray Peat, he sure knows a thing or two.

One thing I was wondering: I know this works very well for people who need to lose a LOT of fat (I needed to lose 45-50 pounds), but my question is has anyone tried this to lose only ten or 15 pounds?

I might try this again....my ultimate goal is to be 120-125 (I'm only 5'2")...still thinking I should work it off through exercise, but sometimes too much exercise leaves me COLD (a feeling I've grown to hate).

 

[Dean]

How many calories should you get on this low fat approach to Peat? I'm 48 year old male about 5'11", 210 pounds. What about macronutrient ratio? Would 100 g. protein, 250 carb, and 20 fat be a reasonable place to start? That's about 1500 calories, which cron-o-meter still says is a few too many to lose a couple pounds a week. Given the glacial (pre-global warning) speed at which my metabolism moves, can I dare go lower? I'm not supplementing with thyroid.

 

[tara]

How many calories should you get on this low fat approach to Peat? I'm 48 year old male about 5'11", 210 pounds. What about macronutrient ratio? Would 100 g. protein, 250 carb, and 20 fat be a reasonable place to start? That's about 1500 calories, which cron-o-meter still says is a few too many to lose a couple pounds a week. Given the glacial (pre-global warning) speed at which my metabolism moves, can I dare go lower? I'm not supplementing with thyroid.

1500 cals is a semi-starvation diet. Have you read about the Minnesota semi-starvation experiment? You probably need quite a bit more than that to get/keep your metabolism going at a better rate. Cutting cals when your metabolism is low may just lower your metabolism further.

I think the guy Peat refers to in one of his articles who does the v. low fat diet for a few months was eating at least 2500 - maybe it was 2800? - can't remember exactly. He lost quite a bit of weight, but he was a physically active farm worker.