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Low-fat Diet 'better' Than Low-carb Diet For Getting Rid Of Body Fat

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by paymanz, Nov 8, 2015.

  1. paymanz

    paymanz Member

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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealt ... f-body-fat


    the study www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/p ... 3115003502
     
  2. Nicholas

    Nicholas Member

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    it's so sad to think back now how tiny i got on low-carb.....almost like it completely changed my body and my musculature. since i resumed the carbs all the muscle came back naturally.
     
  3. ThunderSpank

    ThunderSpank Member

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    Very cool!! :D
     
  4. EIRE24

    EIRE24 Member

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    That's exactly what's happened me, my arms are like toothpicks. Im doing everything I can to rectify it though and turn things back around. What worked for you in getting the muscle back regards lifestyle and nutrition changes from low carb/low calorie?
     
  5. Nicholas

    Nicholas Member

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    well, that would be a very long post.....but basically it was about making sure to meet the demands of my body every day and eating enough carbs/protein/fat with every meal and making sure to respond to hunger cues....even if it was 6 times a day. everyone has their own ability to use certain kinds of carbs and certain types of protein. it started out as fat gain (because of imbalance or being too aggressive in my changes) but eventually normalized for the most part. took about 2 years before i noticed my body shape had completely changed. my body got so small i almost looked like a lanky teenager despite being in my late 20s.
     
  6. EIRE24

    EIRE24 Member

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    I'd be interested to hear the longer version if you had the time, it would probably be easier to PM me. I am going through a similar situation and trying to rebuild myself back to a decent size and your experience could be of great help to me.
     
  7. YuraCZ

    YuraCZ Member

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    It is muscle glycogen bro..
     
  8. beachbum

    beachbum Member

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    Hello

    I ditto to the long version.
     
  9. Nicholas

    Nicholas Member

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    well, here's the long version i PMd EIRE:

    "Hello - these are the variables that typically need to be addressed in some form or fashion in the process of regulating blood sugar - which is the backbone of regulating the entire body (i.e. getting out of a place of muscle wasting). Only you will come to the answers to these questions for your life in the present...and these answers will evolve over time as your cells need different things (phases) and/or the demands put on your body are greater depending on life circumstances. I don't know that there's a specific approach to building lost muscle back. Many on here who have tapped into oxidative metabolism report that they build muscle naturally. I wouldn't say there's ONE macronutrient that is more important for building muscle because all three macronutrients regulate blood sugar...which regulates form and function of the body. Sorry if i'm not communicating this well - it's hard not knowing where you are coming from, what your understanding of physiology and healing are, etc. But anyway, here are the variables i found that have to be addressed in assessing the over-arching question: "am i meeting the demands of my body?" Because when i am meeting the demands of my body *consistently*, then the cells can do their preferred labor with confidence. You may have a list of items you would like them to tend to....but the cells already know what needs tending to, when the best time is to tend to it, etc......but they can't even be in this supervisory role unless you collaborate with them (i.e. assess what they are asking for).

    your stress environment
    your physical activity
    your sunlight
    your sleep habits
    your habits in general
    your social activity
    your calories per day
    your calories per meal
    your meals per day
    your timing of meals
    your non-allergenic food
    your digestible food
    your types and varieties of carbs
    your types and varieties of proteins
    your types of fats
    your macro ratios per meal
    your nutrient variety
    your fiber/fiber types
    your toxins in your environment (to a lesser degree)

    perhaps this will answer your question, or perhaps it will be a springboard for more questions. i'm happy to help.
    ~Nicholas"
     
  10. halken

    halken Member

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    No, neither high-fat nor high-carb are better at getting rid of body fat.

    It's the balance of fat and sugar (in this case SFA:MUFA and fructose) that help one to lose body fat.

    Both LCHF and HCLF camps are wrong.
     
  11. beachbum

    beachbum Member

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    Thank you very much. Very interesting. So a balance it is. I would think protein would be in the balance too or go slightly less im guessing.
     
  12. Westside PUFAs

    Westside PUFAs Member

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    I lost 60 pounds of body fat in a span of a year by eating low fat. It's not wrong for me.

    MUFA? How do avocados and olives have much to do with it? Well, olive oil is fattening:

    "Olive oil, though it is somewhat fattening, is less fattening than corn or soy oil, and contains an antioxidant which makes it protective against heart disease and cancer."-RP

    So you disagree with Peat on low fat milk?

    "I’ve mentioned at times I’ve averaged over the years probably a gallon of milk a day but that’s always been 1% milk because even at 2 quarts of milk, a person doesn’t want to have whole milk at 3 or 4% fat." - RP

    Josh Rubin then says: "What’s interesting is when you say those things, I don’t think you realize the repercussions. You have all these people walking around trying to drink gallons of milk but they’re drinking whole milk and their like “Why am I gaining so much weight…(Peat and Josh laughing) listen here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7204&p=89863#p89863

    "For people who aren't very active, low fat milk and cheese are better, because the extra fat calories aren't needed." - RP

    "The fats in meat and cheese can be minimized by choosing low fat types, and skimmed or 1% milk can be used." - RP

    "but the first thing should be to make sure her calcium to phosphorus ratio is good, by having two quarts of low fat milk per day, or the equivalent in low fat cheese, with no grains, legumes, nuts, or muscle meats, and with some well cooked greens regularly." - RP

    "For people who don't do hard physical labor, low-fat milk is appropriate." - RP

    “I have heard from several people that they think I recommend drinking whole milk, which I don't, because the amount of fat in whole milk is very likely to be fattening when a person is using it to get the needed protein and calcium. When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories.” - RP

    "Why I find dairy fat to be particularity fattening?"

    viewtopic.php?f=181&t=6814
     
  13. Nicholas

    Nicholas Member

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    Linguistics. It is perfectly valid for someone to find improvements with "high carb", "high protein", "low fat", "high fat", etc. But it's not a very technical way of describing it. As a diet is never just "high" something or "low" something. Further, there are even different combos of these "high/low" descriptions. WP, your diet seems to be low fat/high-ish carb. Well, low fat with high protein may have different results. Eating a low fat diet with hardly any protein at all would have different results, too. To "complicate" things even further, we can't assume that whatever ratio makes sense for us now is the ratio that made sense for us in the beginning. I tend to assume, "if only i had found this ratio/balance a long time ago..." but the body does have recovery phases. For example, someone coming out of a state of protein deficiency, their body may initially desire more protein. But after their system has regulated more, that same amount of protein could be toxic. This is why the balance of the macronutrients at every phase of recovery/life is the key. I think that balance is necessary in every phase of life, but as metabolic function improves, there is less sensitiity to intermittent imbalance.
     
  14. halken

    halken Member

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    I don't drink milk...

    I also don't treat Ray Peat as a messiah either...
     
  15. beachbum

    beachbum Member

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    [glow=red]Very nicely written Nicholas makes alot of sense.[/glow]

    [glow=red]Yep me too, I with you on that Halken and Nicholas. I'm sorry but it's hard to read who writes what on here so forgive me if I but the wrong name/s.[/glow]
     
  16. cyclops

    cyclops Member

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    That's great to hear. Do you still follow a very low fat diet nowadays? What's your bodyfat?

    Also do you think eating carbs (or protein) stops fat burning at all, even if temporarily? I ask because I am thinking about starting some intermittent fasting to excelerate fat loss. I've learned that we are always burning fat at rest, so my logic is that ingesting carbs should not halt the fat burning process. But people who do IF seem to get great results.
     
  17. stevrd

    stevrd Member

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    IF works because it controls appetite. In studies where there was a control and both diets were isocaloric, there was no significant difference in weight loss between groups. In ad libitum studies, there does appear to be an advantage to IF. So it works because at the end of the day you eat less calories overall.

    Also, carb intake decreases lipolysis, but that doesn't mean that lowering calories with a high carb diet will not produce fat loss. In certain contexts, high fat low carbohydrate diets stimulates lipogenesis (due to the high fat intake) if net calories are a surplus, and lipolysis if net calories are in a deficit. This is pretty simple math. If somebody is on a low fat diet, they hardly have any fat to store, so yes, lipolysis is blunted to a degree, but so is lipogenesis. If calories are kept in a deficit fat loss will occur.
     
  18. cyclops

    cyclops Member

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    This is kind of my logic as well. But I could see another side to it.

    If you IF your body is not getting any carbs for a period of time and therefore burning more fat during that time as you said carbs decrease lipolysis. Fasting has to stress the body in a different way then if you were getting the same amount of calories through regular meals throughout the day and burnine fat more sporadically and slowly. Some may make the argument it is safer to do the latter, but some seem to think their body burns fat better when they give it a longer period of time to focus on just fat burning.
     
  19. stevrd

    stevrd Member

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    I think you make valid points, but at the moment we're basically relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to research. I've looked at it from both sides. On one hand, IF doesn't really lead to a lower metabolic rate if calories are kept the same. If you imagine kindling in a fire vs one large log, at the end of the day if the total amount of wood is the same, it doesn't really matter. I think your point about burning more fat during fasting also has to consider the fact that you may be burning more muscle tissue to meet the brain's and muscles' demands for glucose as well.

    But fasting has many benefits outside of just fat loss/weight loss, so even if there is not much difference in fat loss, it does seem to decrease endotoxin and allows autophagy. I think these two topics are much more interesting to study than fat loss alone, because as you are aware, you can lose fat on either multiple meals spread out throughout the day or one large meal. As long as the calories are kept the same there probably is not going to be much of a noticeable difference, so it comes down to personal preference. I fast a couple of times per week based on how my body feels. And this actually seems to align with some of Dr. Peat's views. He does not believe it is always wise to eat when not hungry, as it could stress the body and cause endotoxin release.

    For me, my fasting often revolves around the availability of good food. If I do not bring lunch to work because I had to rush out the door in the morning and my only option is to eat shytty cafeteria food with loads of PUFA, I will probably just fast until dinner. I actually find that a good natural rhythm for me is to eat a medium sized breakfast, and then a large snack when I get home followed by an even larger dinner. Other days I may skip meals until dinner, whereas some days I may simply eat smaller meals throughout the day. But I think if you are monitoring you are monitoring yourself, temps, pulse, etc and as long as those are in check, short term fasting is not going to do much harm. It is really after a 24 hour period or longer when fasting becomes more of a problem IMO based on what I've read. Muscle catabolism happens at a faster rate after that point, especially after 3 days.
     
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