Glucose Metabolism Vs Fat Metabolism

[Bart1]

I know that Peat thinks glucose metabolism is optimal health and that fat metabolism is detrimental due to oxidation of harmful fats. I read all the studies here how detrimental it is and how it will lead to degenerative diseases like cancer. However, I also find people who tend to do well on no sugar, low-medium starchy carbs, high protein and high fat diets, take for instance this guy, he clearly had a metabolic problem in the past but he went on high animal protein and high fat diet and low carb not complete Keto and do excessive exercise and get in a great shape.

Steven van Zadelhoff (@svzff) | Twitter

I don't get it. If this would be all so detrimental to one's health, how can people have so much success with it.

Is there something else at play.

 

[Cirion]

Randle cycle. Also, people going on any fad diet, keto or otherwise, is very likely to reduce their intake of processed foods and eat more organic etc.

 

[Bart1]

Randle cycle. Also, people going on any fad diet, keto or otherwise, is very likely to reduce their intake of processed foods and eat more organic etc.

Yes but Randle cycle is bad right, it leads to insulin resistance/type 2 diabetes. This guy definitely didn't have a great diet before so he would definitely have stored PUFA.

 

[Cirion]

Yes but Randle cycle is bad right, it leads to insulin resistance/type 2 diabetes. This guy definitely didn't have a great diet before so he would definitely have stored PUFA.

Sorry, should have probably clarified. Whether you go low carb high fat or high carb low fat, you reduce randle cycle effects. But high fat low carb, even though it reduces randle cycle effects, is not preferable to high carb low fat in the long run. Most people eat a high carb high fat diet prior to caring about their diet (so lots of randle cycle effects) because they eat junk foods which are usually both high fat and high sugar, and high PUFA on top of that.

CLASH here seemingly has some success with a moderately high fat diet with high sugar, but most of the fat he consumes is high SFA and not high PUFA. That probably does work to a degree if you're not extremely overweight, but at least for me with tons of weight to lose, eating too much fat just adds to my waistline, even if its SFA.

 

[Bart1]

Sorry, should have probably clarified. Whether you go low carb high fat or high carb low fat, you reduce randle cycle effects. But high fat low carb, even though it reduces randle cycle effects, is not preferable to high carb low fat in the long run. Most people eat a high carb high fat diet prior to caring about their diet (so lots of randle cycle effects) because they eat junk foods which are usually both high fat and high sugar, and high PUFA on top of that.

CLASH here seemingly has some success with a moderately high fat diet with high sugar, but most of the fat he consumes is high SFA and not high PUFA. That probably does work to a degree if you're not extremely overweight, but at least for me with tons of weight to lose, eating too much fat just adds to my waistline, even if its SFA.

Thanks for clarifying. But still high fat, high animal protein, heavy exercising would lead to high lipolysis and high ammonia. I don’t get it.

 

[Cirion]

Also keep in mind there's a big difference between "getting in shape" and being healthy. A lot of people think they're healthy but just fooling myself. I was like that once. I was very lean, "in shape" but very unhealthy metabolically with low temps, low temps, bad mental problems etc.

 

[Bart1]

Also keep in mind there's a big difference between "getting in shape" and being healthy. A lot of people think they're healthy but just fooling myself. I was like that once. I was very lean, "in shape" but very unhealthy metabolically with low temps, low temps, bad mental problems etc.

absolutely! Couple of years ago I looked also pretty healthy with excessive exercise but I was far from healthy; insomnia, anxiety etc

 

[redsun]

I know that Peat thinks glucose metabolism is optimal health and that fat metabolism is detrimental due to oxidation of harmful fats. I read all the studies here how detrimental it is and how it will lead to degenerative diseases like cancer. However, I also find people who tend to do well on no sugar, low-medium starchy carbs, high protein and high fat diets, take for instance this guy, he clearly had a metabolic problem in the past but he went on high animal protein and high fat diet and low carb not complete Keto and do excessive exercise and get in a great shape.

Steven van Zadelhoff (@svzff) | Twitter

I don't get it. If this would be all so detrimental to one's health, how can people have so much success with it.

Is there something else at play.

Most humans if they had access to meat, subsisted off meat heavy diets. Animal fat(not dairy fat, or dairy itself, this is more individual) is healthy, especially if organic grass fed as it contains good amounts of fat solubles such as D, E, and K2. Though there is a big difference between meat based, carnivore-type diet, and keto. Keto restricts protein, likely those that do keto and are doing very well are not actually restricting protein, therefore not doing a true ketogenic diet. If they are including organs that's even better. Some of their protein will be converted to glucose pulling them out of ketosis most of the time and providing more glucose for necessary processes such as certain parts of the brain(brain stem if I recall). Muscles do just fine using fat for fuel, as they use fatty acids at rest anyway. Only high intensity exercise would generally be limited though some do not have this issue(though we dont know for sure). Creatine is capable of providing energy for high intensity work to a point, not too mention meat has good amounts of creatine on top of that.

Carnivores like Lions for example, eat incredibly heavy protein as well as fat. The thing is when a lion eats, it preferably goes for the organs, which are generally lacking in fat then eats fat as much as it can stomach. Lions are not in ketosis that much unless they began starving(calorie deficit, no more meat in the stomach). There is no viable way carnivores like cheetah could chase anything without glucose. I recall that they have a higher capacity for gluceoneogenesis then humans but humans can do well with only glucose derived from protein, evidence is the many people on meat heavy, high protein, zero carb diets. Many people swear that these types of diets changed their life and we shouldnt disregard that.

Are humans better off with good sources of carbohydrates instead of relying on protein for glucose? Probably as it reduces stressful processes on the body.

 

[postman]

Most humans if they had access to meat, subsisted off meat heavy diets. Animal fat(not dairy fat, or dairy itself, this is more individual) is healthy, especially if organic grass fed as it contains good amounts of fat solubles such as D, E, and K2. Though there is a big difference between meat based, carnivore-type diet, and keto. Keto restricts protein, likely those that do keto and are doing very well are not actually restricting protein, therefore not doing a true ketogenic diet. If they are including organs that's even better. Some of their protein will be converted to glucose pulling them out of ketosis most of the time and providing more glucose for necessary processes such as certain parts of the brain(brain stem if I recall). Muscles do just fine using fat for fuel, as they use fatty acids at rest anyway. Only high intensity exercise would generally be limited though some do not have this issue(though we dont know for sure). Creatine is capable of providing energy for high intensity work to a point, not too mention meat has good amounts of creatine on top of that.

Carnivores like Lions for example, eat incredibly heavy protein as well as fat. The thing is when a lion eats, it preferably goes for the organs, which are generally lacking in fat then eats fat as much as it can stomach. Lions are not in ketosis that much unless they began starving(calorie deficit, no more meat in the stomach). There is no viable way carnivores like cheetah could chase anything without glucose. I recall that they have a higher capacity for gluceoneogenesis then humans but humans can do well with only glucose derived from protein, evidence is the many people on meat heavy, high protein, zero carb diets. Many people swear that these types of diets changed their life and we shouldnt disregard that.

Are humans better off with good sources of carbohydrates instead of relying on protein for glucose? Probably as it reduces stressful processes on the body.

This is what people used to think but all the modern research says protein won't kick you out of ketosis and that gluconeogenesis is driven by demand, not supply.

 

[LLight]

This is what people used to think but all the modern research says protein won't kick you out of ketosis and that gluconeogenesis is driven by demand, not supply.

I have even seen people report that carnivore/high protein had them registering higher ketones compared with their previous keto diet.

 

[Bart1]

Maybe liver and gut health play a big role here. If you have a healthy liver and gut, stress is low, randle cycle is less pronounced, endotoxins can still be detoxified