Peatist Losers [Weight Loss]

Discussion in 'Weight' started by whodathunkit, May 17, 2016.

  1. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    [ moderator edit: posts moved from "Biggest Loser" Contestants Regained Weight. Peat Perspective ]


    IMO fat (or rather, lack of fat) is the key to weight loss. There is no better way to lose weight than very low fat (VLF). And VLF is doable on Peat. Fruit, skim milk, lean meats, and cooked greens have almost no fat. I'm trying it out right now.

    VLF is also the greatest thing ever for correcting liver health. It's a fabulous antidote to a fatty, clogged, underperforming liver. Anecdotally and speaking from experience, I believe poor liver function is what trips up a lot of people who are trying to go Peat but don't feel good on it, or gain weight.

    Intermittent fasting is also a good weight loss strategy, and is also doable on Peat. Past week or so I've fasted a couple days for about 24 hours on watermelon, with a few glasses of juice thrown in (although I watch that because of the calorie count). Easy peasy. I believe fasting conveys other benefits in addition to calorie restriction, too.

    But calories also matter. You must undereat a bit to lose weight, and there's no way to get around that. And I'm not sure it's possible to undereat without tanking your metabolism to a certain degree. However, I strongly believe if undereating is done sanely, and with an eye towards losing as little metabolic energy as possible, and also with an eye towards compensating for potential nutrient deficiencies, it's doable. IMO and IME, as a former heavy hitter (just coming off losing 85lbs and still a bit more to go), a moderate metabolic loss is a reasonable trade-off to go into the weight-losing calorie deficit. You can gain the metabolism back as long as you've managed the loss correctly while undergoing it. As with most things that become skewed beyond the normal, to get to the ideal requires compromise. My compromise with losing body fat is losing some metabolic energy due to calorie deficit in exchange for losing the lard.

    IME it's also important on any weight loss journey to take breaks from the metabolic loss, as well. For every three weeks or whatever of overall calorie deficit, take a week off and eat normally. Around here, that means pure Peat. It keeps off the jones and also tells your body you're not actually starving to death. It makes you realize your weight loss is a finite intervention, not something that's going to go on interminably or forever. Understanding this can be a great psychological boost when trying to lose a lot of weight.

    So I guess maybe it's not possible to do "pure Peat" and lose weight...at least if you've got more than 20lbs or so to lose, or if your liver is messed up. I certainly didn't lose any weight on "pure Peat" and might have gained some, although I was not checking the scale during my first dalliance with it. But judging by the way my clothes fit during that 6 months or so, there was no loss at all. Worth noting is that my liver was screwed when I tried Peat the first time.

    But IMO tweaking Peat to be VLF is very doable and is a probably a decent weight loss strategy. I'm currently trying it out and will update when I know more based on experience.

    Also IMO, the problem with the Biggest Loser contestants and the people featured on "My 600lb Life" and shows like that is that they are put on these horrible regimens with no eye towards correcting already raging nutritional deficiencies or keeping metabolism revved up or digestion functioning properly. They're just forced to lose weight by extreme calorie deficit while also losing nutrients and hormone functioning. They're killing and clogging their mitochondria at the same time with FFA. Horrible, horrible, horrible.

    Just my $0.02.
     
  2. SQu

    SQu Member

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    So did you lose this weight by VLF, IF, occasional breaks, fixing the liver, and slight calorie deficit?

    I have a lot to lose too, but also working on raising metabolism, fixing liver etc, with some success, but so far very modest (but very welcome) improvements in weight loss, going by clothing fit. VLF unfortunately stresses me. More minerals blunt the edge but not enough. Looking for a way around this if there is one. Cheese works but there's the fat usually.
     
  3. skycop00

    skycop00 Member

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    There is a program designed by Brad Pilon called EAT Stop Eat. Basically its a 24 hour fast once or twice per week. He went through exhaustive research that shows the body does not down regulate metabolism until somewhere around the 72 hour mark. You can drink zero calorie products for sure. Anyway, that may be a way to get the fat off for sure. Fasting is routine in many religions as we know. I have found that you get so much done on your FAST days. Unrestricted productivity is very liberating!
     
  4. thebigpeatowski

    thebigpeatowski Member

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    Dammit Birdie...ma One Pair won't last three years.

    I know what you mean though, not knowing whether the new way of eating would work or not. I experienced that profoundly when I jumped in to "Peating".....Happy to say these two plus years later that it does indeed work.

    But I'm still hanging by thread, literally.
     
  5. thebigpeatowski

    thebigpeatowski Member

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    Well, I'm not interested in ZERO calorie anything...If I go on a "diet" I need to make my calories count. But I am thinking that a mostly liquid diet might do me some good.

    I typed the following in to Cron-O: 2 quarts of 1% milk, one quart OJ, one egg, 150 gm carrots, coffee/gelatin/sugar.....comes to 103 grams of protein, 260 grams of carbohydrate, and 25 grams of fat. Most micronutrients are covered. Oysters and liver once a week would round it out nicely. Throw in some well cooked veg or whole fruit for stomach filling and you're good to go.

    Peat says this should be enough to keep the stress response down....we shall see.

    *TAKE NOTE*

    I'm fully aware that this is a LOT of liquid, but it's certainly more nutritious than zero calorie drinks. I wouldn't recommend it for the cold/hypothyroid person, but that ain't me. I'm plenty warm (and fat).

    Is anyone else gonna try this? Who else is in?

    I'll probably last a day.
     
  6. Blossom

    Blossom Member

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    That's about how long I lasted.:lol:
    For me it was like taking an appetite stimulant. The same amount of calories from more solid food definitely keeps me more satiated.
     
  7. thebigpeatowski

    thebigpeatowski Member

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    This is EXACTLY what I'm afraid of....I've grown (pun intended) quite fond of starch and butter.
     
  8. OP
    whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    Me. I'm in! I'll suffer publicly with you. :p I've been wanting to see how a VLF Peat-style high sugar diet stacks up against a VLF high starch diet like Kempner's Rice Diet or potato hacking. Both of those high starch strategies are very effective even if hard to stick to and I do notice a metabolism dip. I was going to start VLF Peat in the next few days, anyway, but if you're serious about wanting some company in your misery I'm definitely for that. :) Buddy system is always a help. :thumbsup:

    Although I may be a drag because it sounds like you've really done your homework to pinpoint your metabolic calorie limits and all, which I haven't done. Maybe it's time to get serious about that. But in the interest of moving along in the near future I'll just pick a decent calorie deficit number for most people and leave it at that. Worry about my specific metabolism later. I will say my body temps are normal even first thing in the morning and since starting Peating again I'm not getting minorly cold extremities at odd times any more. So I think my metabolism is doing okay. I'm also trialing @haidut 's Tyromax and finding it does give me a reaction of increased heart rate and warmth, immediately after a small oral dose of only 2-3 drops.

    You tell me what stats I need to collect for the process (if any) and I'll do it, if we want to make this that kind of "trial". Probably not a bad idea, just for the FYI of the community. I'm not very good at journaling or my own record-keeping, however...I get lazy and quit after a couple/few weeks. Having someone to report to may be the motivation I need to stick with it. I have been doing body temp and fasting glucose (because of my long-standing chronic hyperglycemia) for a couple of weeks, which is how I know my temps are okay. Mouth and axillary are the same, but axillary takes longer for accuracy so I'm not fooling with that method any more.

    Incidentally, VLF/high starch brings my blood sugars down to normal very quickly. Peat style bumps them up a bit, although not outrageously high. So probably still liver issues going on.

    I'm still actively trying to lose weight, and plateauing.

    FWIW, my highest weight was 246lbs, a couple years ago. I was heavy for over 15 years, although my weight typically fluctuated between 215-230lbs. 246lbs was all time high. :grumpy: I'm 5'6". Now I'm 165lbs. So whoops, that's 80lbs not 85lbs. My bad. Funny how Orwellian maths always seem to creep into any discussion of dieting, no? ;)

    Anyway, at 165lbs I'm still kinda heavy (I prefer the terms "fluffy" or "voluptuous" :lol:) but not obese any more. I'm fairly happy with the way I look even though I know I can be a bit better and would be healthier about 20-30lbs lighter. My "normal" weight when in my teens and early 20's was 115-125. That was too thin. Ideal was when I matured a bit and filled out, between 130-140. More towards 140. 140 was my upper limit set point for some years. There was a time when I had to "work" really hard to go above that. I could go above it, and I did, but I had to really overdo and it was not too hard to get back to it. Seemed to be where my body was naturally happy.

    Yep, and I don't care if I weigh 200lbs as long as I can get into 'em. But it just so happens that I *can't* get into 'em at 200lbs. Or even at 165lbs. Between 130-140lbs is where they fit (and the spread is determined by how much muscle I'm packing at any given time). Hence the curent weight loss quest. :lol:

    That said, if I can't budge the scale without tanking all the health gains I've made in the last 3 years, then I can stay here. But I don't think that's the case. I think I can reset my set point back to where it was in my 30's before my life went kablooey. It's just going to take some work. Doesn't Peat even say there isn't really any reason for people to weigh more in middle age than they did in their late 20's?

    This is truly awesome. Kudos to you for having the wherewithal to stick with it that long, even without constant reinforcement. IME that's the thing that tanks most people from making meaningful lifestyle changes...they can't stick with it. That was certainly my problem for years and years. Path of least resistance is usually the Road to Hell.

    You betcha. Never ever ever ever ever give up. :cool:
     
  9. OP
    whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    I did this for a while. Also the program delineated in the book "The Fast Diet", which is a very interesting read.

    However, intermittent fasting can and does tank the metabolism, just like every other weight loss strategy, if done for an extended period of time. I know cuz it was my primary weight loss strategy for nearly a year. This and a Peat-y style "Perfect Health Diet". Peat and PHD are very similar except the PHD people recommend starches and have that weird prejudice against fructose.

    I would typically fast for 16 hours per day and get all my calories in 8 hours (called 16/8, for those who don't know). Then I would fast for 24 hours at least two days per week ("intermittent fasting", or IF) and sometimes every other day ("alternate day fasting:, or ADF). "Fasting" being no more than 600 calories per day. I lost at least 50lbs very quickly doing this, and never really felt deprived. Around the 50lb mark is when weight loss slowed and I developed digestive/gall bladder issues (which I have since pretty much worked out).

    Point being that while fasting is a great strategy and really does seem to convey the overall health benefits it's reputed to have, contrary to the narrative popularized by big fans of it, it can convey the same kinds of metabolic problems that other forms of extreme dieting convey, even when practiced within the guidelines laid out by the "experts".

    That said, I'm still a fan of fasting and in fact a Peat-style watermelon fast a day or two per week might be part of my VLF regimen. Watermelon is tasty, satisfying, filling, very low cal so you can eat a bunch of it and still stay within the fasting calorie count, and easy to get at this time of year. I've done it a couple days the past week and did get the odd cold extremeties on those days, though. But if not done more than 24 hours (say, from 6p to 6p), it shouldn't be too metabolically detrimental, and the calorie deficit may be of weight loss benefit.

    Just my $0.02. :)
     
  10. OP
    whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    That's been my biggest overall motivation, too. I started this journey (which didn't really begin with Peat, although it kind of did) because all I could see before me for the rest of my life was a decline, of longer or slower momentum. I had truly terrible metabolic and mitochondrial dysfunction and decided that just wasn't acceptable. If the zombie apocalypse actually happens, I want to be one of the ones that can run away for a while. :p
     
  11. OP
    whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    Sorry for all the excessive posts, but I also wanted to say that after all I've been through losing this weight and recovering my metabolism, I strongly believe nutritional deficiencies are at the bottom of cravings. Not hunger, but cravings. Cravings for everything, even fat (energy). I think raging subclinical nutritional deficiencies plus undiagnosed mitochondrial dysfunction are behind the rebound problems experience by the BL contestants and the recidivists on "600lb Life" and shows like that. No doubt these problems are primarily caused by PUFA and processed food, but regardless of cause, the end result is the same: cravings after weight loss causes rebound eating and rebound weight gain, and the metabolism doesn't have the juice to ever recover. But I don't think the metabolism crash is the root of the rebound or the cravings: it's the unacknowledged nutritional deficiencies.

    I always had cravings, from the time I was a kid. It was almost like somethign was compelling me to eat crap against my will. I didn't want healthy food, and I wanted more food than was good for me. For whatever reason this didn't catch up to me big time until I was in my 30's and underwent some huge life stress. Then everything went really into the toilet and I got really heavy, really fast, and stayed that way. Cortisol!!! For a long time I was completely suitable to be a contestant on the BL, even if I never applied to be one.

    I began to pull myself out of this crappy cycle about 3 years ago by stacking supplements as laid out by a fellow experimenter who is much, much smarter than me. What I noticed almost immediately was that my cravings diminished astonishingly quickly when I supplied myself with mostly large amounts of the right micronutrient supplements. It was pretty much a miracle for me. No eating style had ever done that for me, including Peat, which I had experimented with for six months before trying this supplement stack that targeted key micronutrient deficiencies and mitochondrial dysfunction. And it happened so fast! I was suddenly able to eat much less of the same crap, and be satisfied with the smaller portions. Also, my tastes changed. Was still addicted to PUFA, but was also becoming spontaneously attracted to healthier food choices. A few squares of organic 85% dark chocolate began to appeal to me more than a large piece of store-bought, PUFA-based chocolate cake, for example. The most startling thing was the change happened spontaneously, without me beating myself up to make healthier choices. Before this, even Peat style was a bit of a struggle in that I had a hard time controlling portions and I still craved some junk.

    Point being is that I believe for some people, a healthy diet supplying enough PUFA-free energy may not be enough in the beginning of the journey. I definitely believe in getting all our nutrition from food, but for some people that might not be possible. Food might not be enough, in the beginning of weight loss, or maybe ever. They might have compromised digestion (which makes it very difficult to get things like ultra-necessary B12 from food sources, for example), genetic mutations that don't allow them to get the benefits from certain micronutrients (MTHFR mutations cause problems with utilization of crucial methylfolate, or etc.) when supplied in amounts available in food, or maybe it's just that their livers are too clogged up to carry out certain processes.

    I've been wondering a lot lately how different the outcomes would be for the BL contestants if they put them on a VLF nutritious Peat or PHD style diet AND supplied the most commonly deficient micronutrients in therapeutic amounts? Also supplying some crucial mito-building aminos like carnitine? Added in some liver supporting supplements like milk thistle? How would that change the long-term outcomes? Of course the metabolism would still suffer somewhat due to the stress of big weight loss...I'm beginning to think it may not be possible for us really heavy hitters to lose weight without suffering a metabolic hit. Stress is inherent to meaningful calorie restriction, and people with more than 10lbs to lose need to see the results that meaningful calorie restriction conveys. Going slowly or by the way our clothes fit usually isn't enough motivation to stay the course. We want the more objective measure of declining numbers.

    BUT...getting cravings under control seems to be necessary to avoid recidivism, and that's what such a strategy could accomplish. Then they could lose weight and once at goal work on recovering metabolism completely. At least, that's seems to be how it's gone for me. That's my plan now: lose the last bit of weight while managing the metabolic hit as much as possible, then recovering metabolism once I reach goal. I wonder how many other heavy hitters it could work for?
     
  12. Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    I meant that getting back to a lighter weight with this Peaty eating was what I thought might not work.
    Not that i thought the theories were wrong or wouldn't work.
    My experience at being at a better weight was before the Peat ideas, so before 2011.

    I was doing a lot the same before finding Peat, but I couldn't go back to the exact same way of eating.
    So, I couldn't rely on experience to help with weight loss.

    A couple of Ray's remarks helped me and still do:
    1. He said something about people sometimes gaining weight when they tried to get in every nutrient.
    2. And he said he went to 1% milk because he liked to eat cheese and have cream sometimes.

    His other suggestions like eating extra coconut oil might help somebody else, but didn't work for me.
    I thought Andrew Kim's blog was inspiring for (healthy) weight stuff.
     
  13. Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    Oh, sorry, I didn't see this whole page when I replied... Oh well.
     
  14. Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    For another experience, this approach made me gain weight. Both IF and PHD. It was good at first and then backfired.
     
  15. OP
    whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    Might be because of raised cortisol. What do you think? Of course I couldn't put everything I experienced with this in one post, but at times it did seem to raise my cortisol. I would back off the fasting and up my calorie intake if that happened.

    But again, overall, it did tank the metabolism somewhat, for whatever reason. Anyone who claims it absolutely doesn't or it can't or it won't is profoundly myopic.

    Not everyone reacts well to starches, either. If there's one thing I've learned in the last five or so years it's that there's not a single thing out there that's suitable for everyone. And also that a lot of things might not be suitable at one time but imminently suitable at another time.
     
  16. thebigpeatowski

    thebigpeatowski Member

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    I meant to answer this earlier....I think theanine is an excellent supplement to go with caffeine. I hadn't discovered it yet when I did the fat loss in 2014, but there were days when I pushed things too hard back then and I think adding theanine in to the mix would have been MIGHTY HELPFUL.

    Today is Day Two...yesterday wasn't near as bad as I thought it would be.:wink

    To be continued...
     
  17. thebigpeatowski

    thebigpeatowski Member

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    Okay girlie, let's do this thing......actually I already started yesterday and it wasn't too bad.

    Today is Day Two...I'm not sure where to log our fat loss journey. We could take it back to my thread, just to keep the stupidity all in one spot.:lol: Or you can start a new thread...or we can log it here as Peatish Proof for all those wishing to be amused/entertained. Either way.

    Calorie deficit is completely personal based on your own specific metabolism/reaction to specific foods/ability to deal with hunger/stress and also how quickly you want to lose etc. Some choose to take it s-l-o-w and I think Peat would say this is healthier. Others (you can probably guess who) have chosen to take the Quick & Dirty Route.

    There's no rules...you can decide what stats you might wish to keep track of. I'll make all of my information available to potential voyeurs, if any are interested...Also, we need a name for our fat loss gig, I propose the Peatishly Prone Properly-fitting Pants Protocol...okay that's way too long.:lol:

    I'm probably not the best person to hand out advice about blood sugar regulation......it's a long story. Just do what works for you. I've recently added milk thistle for ma liver. Oh and a properly calibrated glucometer...that helps.:roll:

    Are you sure you don't want to take a break for a bit?

    I don't know if Peat said this....sounds familiar, but I have memory issues so I can't recall.

    I do think when you analyze/study some of the healthy older generations in other cultures (not Americans) most of the really active healthy peeps are fairly lean.

    I'm not looking to get "skinny" or "slim".....I actually despise those words. I have great curves, an hour-glass figure that I don't wish to wreck...it's just that right now my *ss is a tad too big for my 501's.
     
  18. SQu

    SQu Member

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    Insufficient posts!

    Very very interesting to find an intelligent approach that actually addresses real issues. I've been hopeful that thinking like this could slowly start to work.

    No it's not. Some supplements are making a huge difference for me. But I could do with more ideas.

    I'll take it over giving up! And very grateful that there might be a way out of this trap.

    Yip.

    Details! Lengthy comprehensive details!

    Didn't try PHD but IF messes me up after a brief okayish phase.

    I don't but since cautiously reintroducing gym for the zillionth time at gentle levels, I am handling bread better than other starches and than in the past. I could continue avoiding starch but I'm going with this it seems like I could learn something.
     
  19. OP
    whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    @thebigpeatowski, your post has me LMAO. Like looking in a mirror except I don't necessarily recognize the physical face. Right down to the amazingly apparent affection for amusing alliteration. ;)

    If the jones gets too bad I'll take a break. I'll be okay. I like the way I eat now, anyway. All that really changes during "breaks" is the amount of fat in my diet. Some calorie restriction during weight loss phases but that doesn't really bother me.

    So maybe to avoid confusion and to not derail the discussion from the interesting topic of the BL contestants, we can start a new thread to log stats and for general discussion. Maybe (also to avoid confusion) we could call it the "Very Low Fat Peat-style Weight Loss Experiment" or something similar. Added benefit of a new thread is that others could chime in if they want to join.

    Since you've already started your experiment and mine won't start until tomorrow, do you want to do the honors?

    Me, too. I like having "something to grab onto", as an old boyfriend once succinctly put it. But I always had that. I just want a bit less of the grabby stuff now, like I had less of it back then.
     
  20. thebigpeatowski

    thebigpeatowski Member

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    GRABBY STUFF RULES!!!

     
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