My Plan For PUFA Depletion & Weight Loss

[milkboi]

Hey guys, I know there are a lot of logs and threads about PUFA depletion already. But I still find every single one of them really interesting, so I decided to start my own.

About myself: I am 21, and I did a "Bulletproof" style of a keto diet for almost 3 years. In the last 6 months I tried a semi-peat diet and gained a bit of weight (too much dietary fat ofc). I´m chronicly fatigued (not sure about having CFS th0), and just not contend with where I am right now health-wise (but I did improve significantly using a RP and RPF inspired approach). My biggest breakthroughs are thanks to Doxycycline, sugar, not fasting! and Cypro.

My goals for the next 2-3 months are: PUFA depletion (maybe not being completely depleted, but as close to that state as possible), weight-loss (not really that important, but just wanting to get to a more healthy and aesthetic body fat percentage), increased health (robustness to stressors like working out, sleep deprivation etc.) and metabolism.
I´m going to take the long road on losing weight (I shed fat really fast in the past, although in a unhealthy manner aka keto) but not on PUFA depletion hopefully. I really want to test Peats ideas against (my) reality! So far (of course) all of his advice was very useful.

So, here comes the fun part:

Diet: (will post a cronometer screenshot aswell)
- 1 l of skim milk
- 2l mandarine juice (should be pretty similiar to the nutritional profile of OJ; somehow 2L of that has 0,8g PUFA?!?)
- 30g MCT (70% C8/30% C10)
- 500g of really low fat Quark
- 25g liver (daily average, will eat like 1x/week with lots of vitamin E)
- 50g honey
- 100g maple syrup
- 100g date syrup
+ some white sugar in the form of candy/coke, maybe 50g
-> approximately a bit under 3k calories

What´s retarded is that there´s still 1,2g daily PUFA. Would have loved to get below 0,5g, but that´s the lowest PUFA diet I could come up with that doesn´t neglect micronutrients too much.

Sups:
- 100mg Thiamin, 3x/daily
- 50mg Niacinamide, 3x/daily
- 5-10mg P5P B6/daily
- 10mg Biotin/daily
- 500mg aspirine/daily
- 140mg mixed tocopherols/daily, 280mg the day I eat liver
- some days I´ll throw in a few mgs of MB
- tapering off Cypro right now, maybe will use occasionally when insomnia might happen otherwise
- 25mg zinc per day
- 2x300mg caffeine pills/daily
- 2x25mg Doxy 1-3x/week
- Taking some glycine, so will take that instead of Gelatine

K2 (and maybe some D, which I have, but only would take together with K2) would be cool in there, but am financially tight right now, so that´ll have to wait.

Lifestyle
- Too much time indoors (can´t really change as I am a student, trying to make it up with bright lighting + red light)
- Red light in 5 minute intervalls throughout the day
- Working on relationships; I am too much of a loner right now, although not totally isolated either
- Working out when I feel like it (so 1x/week maybe), I love bench pressing. Overall weight training doesn´t agree with my health tho. Crash after every workout (not necessarily directly after, can be a day or so delayed), even for a couple of days sometimes. Not that I train all the time, and then wonder about crashing. Just every time I get excited about working out, its consequences kick me in the face.
- Will prioritize semi-long walks in the park, so I´ll do one almost every day


So yeah, that´s the approach I´m going to try. Feel free to critique it. Nutrient-dense enough? And maybe help bring PUFA down to 0,5g somehow. Cheers!

 

[YourUniverse]

Have you tried drinking coffee? Coffee is much more than caffeine

 

[johnwester130]

needs gelatin

 

[milkboi]

Have you tried drinking coffee? Coffee is much more than caffeine

Yeah, long time coffee drinker actually. But the price of caffeine pills are a huge plus for me, as are less fluids. Also, caffeine oftentimes feels actually cleaner.

needs gelatin

Alright, 1kg of it are on the way. Any other suggestions?

 

[Alpha]

Too much sugars, not enough protein or saturated fat.

Weight loss is vital to PUFA depletion. I went to 8% on a low PUFA diet to achieve it.

 

[Dobbler]

^ What are you talking about?

33g SAFA to 1.2 PUFA is fantastic ratio. If you can lose weight with carbs being high then go for it. Looks good to me.

 

[YourUniverse]

Overall weight training doesn´t agree with my health tho. Crash after every workout (not necessarily directly after, can be a day or so delayed), even for a couple of days sometimes. Not that I train all the time, and then wonder about crashing. Just every time I get excited about working out, its consequences kick me in the face.

Your protein is kind of low, is that level of intake normal for you? Increasing could be your answer - lifting crushes me without at least 160g daily

 

[milkboi]

Your protein is kind of low, is that level of intake normal for you? Increasing could be your answer - lifting crushes me without at least 160g daily

Interesting... gonna throw in 30g gelatine daily as per @johnwester130 s suggestion, so that´ll push it to 150g.

^ What are you talking about?

33g SAFA to 1.2 PUFA is fantastic ratio. If you can lose weight with carbs being high then go for it. Looks good to me.

Thanks... pretty excited to try this one. What are your experiences with PUFA depletion?

Weight loss is vital to PUFA depletion. I went to 8% on a low PUFA diet to achieve it.

Sounds great, that´s what I plan on achieving eventually.

 

[Alpha]

^ What are you talking about?

33g SAFA to 1.2 PUFA is fantastic ratio. If you can lose weight with carbs being high then go for it. Looks good to me.

Not taking about the ratio, but the amount of fat in diet.

 

[Cirion]

Just gonna throw out a personal caution - take it or leave it, just my 2 cents and my own experience.

PUFA depletion is great. I suggest doing it. I'm doing it now. Just be careful that the foods you eat are helpful. Just because something is low pufa doesn't mean it will be helpful even if it is "peat approved". For example, I learned that skim milk just doesn't work for me. At my level of health anyway. Then there is the concern of too much vitamin A from things like liver. I guess all I'm saying is, think for yourself and consider if a food is helping or not rather than develop a cookie cutter diet based upon some things you read here. I learned this the hard way myself. That's a lot of supplements too, which can be dangerous. I gave up on supplements myself since it was too hard for me to keep things balanced this way. Better to be in tune with if a food is helping or not. If it is... great! I'm just rambling at this point lol.

As for the protein intake I no longer am a believer in massive protein intakes. I'm actually experimenting with low intakes now, like 50-70g a day. I think it's fine as long as carbs are sufficiently HIGH. What gets folk into trouble is they drop into a large calorie deficit when they do this. I decided to go low protein for many reasons, one of which I belive that animal products promote estrogenic dominance, but also because I just constantly feel off with animal products. I like being able to replace protein with even more carbs and eat close to 1,000 gram carb a day lol. That gives you lots of energy to lift weights with. carbs are protein sparing in this context.

I think haidut posted a study some time back that some culture that produces a lot of 100+ y/o's all ate something like a 10:1 carb to protein ratio.

 

[TripleOG]

Prioritize the long walks and you will lose weight without having to worry about the degenerative stress akin to higher intensity cardio and calorie/carb restriction diets.

I'd mix in some mushroom and carrot salad for estrogen and bowel management.

 

[milkboi]

Prioritize the long walks and you will lose weight without having to worry about the degenerative stress akin to higher intensity cardio and calorie/carb restriction diets.

I'd mix in some mushroom and carrot salad for estrogen and bowel management.

Sounds good, I might throw that in there. Altough I’m not a fan of fiber as you can see ^^

Just gonna throw out a personal caution - take it or leave it, just my 2 cents and my own experience.

PUFA depletion is great. I suggest doing it. I'm doing it now. Just be careful that the foods you eat are helpful. Just because something is low pufa doesn't mean it will be helpful even if it is "peat approved". For example, I learned that skim milk just doesn't work for me. At my level of health anyway. Then there is the concern of too much vitamin A from things like liver. I guess all I'm saying is, think for yourself and consider if a food is helping or not rather than develop a cookie cutter diet based upon some things you read here. I learned this the hard way myself. That's a lot of supplements too, which can be dangerous. I gave up on supplements myself since it was too hard for me to keep things balanced this way. Better to be in tune with if a food is helping or not. If it is... great! I'm just rambling at this point lol.

As for the protein intake I no longer am a believer in massive protein intakes. I'm actually experimenting with low intakes now, like 50-70g a day. I think it's fine as long as carbs are sufficiently HIGH. What gets folk into trouble is they drop into a large calorie deficit when they do this. I decided to go low protein for many reasons, one of which I belive that animal products promote estrogenic dominance, but also because I just constantly feel off with animal products. I like being able to replace protein with even more carbs and eat close to 1,000 gram carb a day lol. That gives you lots of energy to lift weights with. carbs are protein sparing in this context.

I think haidut posted a study some time back that some culture that produces a lot of 100+ y/o's all ate something like a 10:1 carb to protein ratio.

Like I wrote in your health log, I digest dairy pretty good, therefore I’ll keep it in as a base for all the sugar lol. Gelatine will help balance out the aminos.. but I agree that there is a point to make for moderate to low protein intake.

 

[milkboi]

What I noticed is that taking supplements on a semi-empty stomach (like only with fluids) predictably causes stomach pain (duh). I’ll try to manage that. I love my sups, but if I can’t make em work for my stomach, I’ll have to reduce them or switch to using more topical applications.

 

[milkboi]

Not taking about the ratio, but the amount of fat in diet.

Yeah, but minimizing fat is the only practical way to reduce PUFA isn’t it? Also low fat works for general weight loss for many people (can’t speak for myself tho as this is the first time doing such a diet).
It’s also higher in fats than most of the PUFA depletion diets I’ve seen due to the MCTs.

 

[schultz]

My biggest breakthroughs are thanks to Doxycycline, sugar, not fasting! and Cypro.

Haha. Apparently, eating has health benefits. I read a study on it

2l mandarine juice (should be pretty similiar to the nutritional profile of OJ; somehow 2L of that has 0,8g PUFA?!?)

Concentrate has lower PUFA (if you want to be obsessive). I believe OJ concentrate has half the PUFA of OJ. I'm guessing it's from skimming and/or filtering off the junk in the tanks.

What´s retarded is that there´s still 1,2g daily PUFA. Would have loved to get below 0,5g, but that´s the lowest PUFA diet I could come up with that doesn´t neglect micronutrients too much.

It's probably low enough. It really depends on the type of PUFA. AA is 3 times more effective at keeping an animal out of EFAD. Fish oil is the least effective. Liver is a source of AA though. I did a fair bit of research on EFAD and I remember coming to the conclusion that if I kept it at 0.7g or lower I could get into EFAD. An often cited number though is 0.5% of the diet or lower, which for 2,500 calories is about 1.38g of PUFA, and for 2,000 calories is 1.11g (obviously total calories needs to be considered). I think when I calculated 0.7g I was using the more conservative 0.33% of the diet as PUFA based on a 2,000 calorie diet, which ends up being *drum roll* 0.73g PUFA.

This stuff really appeals to my obsessive nature.

Prioritize the long walks and you will lose weight without having to worry about the degenerative stress akin to higher intensity cardio and calorie/carb restriction diets.

+1

 

[schultz]

You should do whatever diet you're comfortable with, but a good base diet for EFAD for myself would be something like...

12cups skim milk
500g orange juice concentrate
30g instant coffee
18tsp sugar

... which gives the RDA for almost every nutrient, only 0.5g PUFA, and even 1g caffeine. 150% RDA for magnesium and almost 200% for potassium.

The instant coffee fills in a few blanks like niacin. The sugar is for lattes.

Edit: I specifically said "base diet". You could always add things like 1oz liver, HCO, whatever. I think the liver is a good safeguard.

 

[milkboi]

You should do whatever diet you're comfortable with, but a good base diet for EFAD for myself would be something like...

12cups skim milk
500g orange juice concentrate
30g instant coffee
18tsp sugar

... which gives the RDA for almost every nutrient, only 0.5g PUFA, and even 1g caffeine. 150% RDA for magnesium and almost 200% for potassium.

The instant coffee fills in a few blanks like niacin. The sugar is for lattes.

Edit: I specifically said "base diet". You could always add things like 1oz liver, HCO, whatever. I think the liver is a good safeguard.

Thank you, really helpful.

The concentrate thing seems to be a good way to lower PUFA. You mean 500g of store-bought concentrate right? Not 500g pure concentrate. That would probably have a ***t ton of calories hehe. And give an overdose of potassium.

I like to use maple syrup, date syrup and honey for the nutrients instead of white sugar. Do you see any problems with that? Maybe more PUFA in there than we know (atleast in the syrups)?

More important, do you have a guess how long it will take to induce EFAD with a ~0,5g PUFA diet ?

 

[milkboi]

Quick update:

Switched to OJ concentrate as per @schultz´s suggestion. (btw, I get you now schultz, you really meant 500g concentrate). Compared to mandarine juice, it´s a lot less sweet and a bit bitter, so I added some sugar and salt. That´s a win right here!

Diet feels really good. Like better than any diet I´ve ever tried before. I don´t know if I am losing weight tho. I would think so... Atleast I am detoxing PUFA, which is the most important thing.

 

[aquaman]

Quick update:

Switched to OJ concentrate as per @schultz´s suggestion. (btw, I get you now schultz, you really meant 500g concentrate). Compared to mandarine juice, it´s a lot less sweet and a bit bitter, so I added some sugar and salt. That´s a win right here!

Diet feels really good. Like better than any diet I´ve ever tried before. I don´t know if I am losing weight tho. I would think so... Atleast I am detoxing PUFA, which is the most important thing.

Do you measure your blood glucose with a Meter?

Liquids (juices/milk) reliably spike my BG above 11 mmol/200 MG and cause fat deposit. If you can’t metabolise the 500g of sugars you’re taking in, it will store as fat, and (total guess here) prevent you burning pufa

 

[schultz]

The concentrate thing seems to be a good way to lower PUFA. You mean 500g of store-bought concentrate right? Not 500g pure concentrate. That would probably have a ***t ton of calories hehe. And give an overdose of potassium.

Switched to OJ concentrate as per @schultz´s suggestion. (btw, I get you now schultz, you really meant 500g concentrate). Compared to mandarine juice, it´s a lot less sweet and a bit bitter, so I added some sugar and salt. That´s a win right here!

Haha yah I meant 500g. It's equivelant to like 6 cups of juice or something? Maybe a bit more? If I am counting calories I tend to weigh everything in grams, that's why I said 500g... I guess it sounds weird. I tend to do whatever is easy, so I'd probably consume 1 container of concentrate per day, or 2, or whatever. Easy to keep track of.

I like to use maple syrup, date syrup and honey for the nutrients instead of white sugar. Do you see any problems with that? Maybe more PUFA in there than we know (atleast in the syrups)?

I just use sugar because it's cheap.

Those other sugars would probably be better overall I would imagine. If they contain fats it's in minuscule amounts that are not relevant.

More important, do you have a guess how long it will take to induce EFAD with a ~0,5g PUFA diet ?

I have absolutely no idea! If you were to hook up an IV with sugar while you slept you could induce EFAD in like 2 weeks. You'd still have PUFA in your adipose tissue but since it isn't being released from storage you'd effectively be in a state of deficiency. The best human experiment (and possibly the only one) is the William Brown experiment. He did it for 6 months, but I am not sure they tested Mead acid (did they even know about it yet?). They were probably looking for skin issues and some sign of sickness, though all that happened was he got healthier in several ways. It's been a while since I read that paper. I think he lost body fat and stopped getting tired from long work days lol.

It probably depends on how much body fat you have, if you're actively losing that fat, etc. I bet walking would speed it up. Ray always mentions 4 years, but I think what he means by that is it takes about 4 years for your adipose tissue to completely change without intervention, and it probably assumes maintenance calories at least.