The Big Misunderstanding About PUFA Depletion

Discussion in 'Polyunsaturated Fats, Seed Oils' started by Westside PUFAs, Aug 2, 2015.

  1. Westside PUFAs

    Westside PUFAs Member

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    There's a big misunderstanding about PUFA depletion just like there is a big misunderstanding about endotoxin, and that is, they are always a problem and always will be a problem for life. You can't stop their effects completely, but you can do things to greatly reduce their effect.

    You couldn't deplete your PUFA even if you tried.

    Unless you become an anorexic, or you have the rare disease Neonatal Progeroid Syndrome, the no adipose tissue disease, you're not "completley depleting PUFA:"

    "Lizzie Velasquez suffers from a rare disorder and must eat every 15 minutes to stay alive.

    Velasquez, a 21-year-old Texan, is unable to put on weight and must eat 5,000-8,000 calories a day. That's approximately 60 meals a day.

    Velasquez is believed to be just a few in the entire world to suffer from Neonatal Progeroid Syndrome, which also accelerates with aging. She eats all kinds of food, including junk food, at will without gaining any weight.

    She told the Telegraph, "I weigh myself regularly and if I gain even one pound I get really excited."

    Lizzie Velasquez, 56-Pound Woman, Must Eat Every 15 Minutes To Stay Alive (VIDEO)



    You can never fully deplete PUFA from your fat tissue. It is impossible. You can not just eat SAFA as your only overt fat and expect to magically be able to get 100% of the PUFA out of your adipose tissue. It is impossible to not eat some PUFA unless every single morsel of food you eat has the PUFA removed from it, for the rest of your life.

    "The half-life of fats in human adipose tissue is about 600 days, meaning that significant amounts of previously consumed oils will still be present up to four years after they have been removed from the diet." - RP

    Unless you're water fasting, you eat food every single day of your life, and every single one of those meals is going to have a small amount of PUFA. So the naturally occurring fat in the meal that you ate about 600 days ago, about half of it is still in your adipose tissue. :(

    Oil is fat and fat is oil:

    "Vegetables, grains, nuts, fish and meats all naturally contain large amounts of these oils, and the extra oil used in cooking becomes a more serious problem." - RP

    Don't ignore the fish and meat part of that quote ;), what I mean by that is, people always try to demonize just plant foods, when animal foods have PUFA too, even if ruminant/grass fed there is still a small amount of PUFA, but saying that does not make me a vegan, I eat lean beef and bison, I'm just objective ;) .

    "Unfortunately, it is impossible to devise a fat-free diet outside of a laboratory." - RP

    Yep. And no one has the time or money or friends with a laboratory to create such a diet. Therefore, you'll always have some PUFA in your food.

    “The most highly unsaturated fats, including DHA, accumulate with aging, and their toxic fragments are increased in Alzheimer's disease. “ - RP

    Notice the "accumulate with aging" part? We're talking about meal after meal, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. It all adds up slowly. The slow fat exchange of the 600 day half life.

    “Although thyroid, progesterone, and a high quality protein diet will generally correct the epilepsy problem, it is important to mention that the involvement of unsaturated fats and free radicals in seizure physiology implies that we should minimize our consumption of the unsaturated fats. Even years after eliminating them from the diet, their release from tissue storage can prolong the problem, and during that time the use of vitamin E is likely to reduce the intensity and frequency of seizures.” - RP

    "When someone has been poisoned by stress and a bad diet, many things interfere with the ability to form and use Thyroid hormone. PUFAs will interfere both with production, transport and ability to respond to it, through poisoning of the mitochondria that use it. When you are under stress, by the time a person is about 30 years old, their tissues have had time to store PUFA, even if they are not eating very much in the diet, the body preferentially oxidizes saturated fats and sugar, and puts the PUFA into storage. So when you are stressed and over 30, your blood will fill with PUFA, which blocks Thyroid function as well as production of protective steroid hormones." - RP

    "A small amount of these oils won't kill you. It is the proportion of them in your diet that matters." - RP

    There's fat tissue and there's muscle tissue:

    Untitled.jpg


    And it appears that one of the biggest signs of a healthy metabolism is one that regulates body fat while other parameters are met, and the conversion of the appropriate amounts of SAFA and MUFA from sugar. We make our own saturated and monounsaturated fats from sugar, including omega 9. If the body makes those fats from carbohydrate then pretty much proves that saturated fat is protective. But there should also be common sense in that consuming preformed SAFA in high enough amounts can lead to enlarged adipose tissue (The effect of SAFA-mostly enlarged adipose sites would be interesting.) I think this is what happens when someone eats a good diet, and eats enough fruit/potatoes/lactose etc., some of that is properly converted into saturated/monounsaturated fatty acids to maintain our own normal basic body fat, as in the basic human lean muscle tissue with a low body fat %. This would explain why when I was 20 years old my diet of 1% milk and grape juice, gave me a lean body that never put on excess fat at that time.

    So it seems that PUFA is natures way of killing you slowly. Something has to age and kill you. If you don't die of a disease or blunt force trauma then PUFA will get you sooner or later.
    :D :) :( :roll::cry::x :evil: :twisted:
     
  2. Stuart

    Stuart Member

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    So do you think that the small amounts of pufa you get in animal tissue and fruits and vegetables (even OJ) are ideal?
    Maybe the question of whether they are 'essential' or not is missing the point. Carbohydrates aren't essential either, but throughout our evolution they've constituted a large percentage of our calorie intake. So a prudent dietary intake reflects that evolutionary imperative.
    Similar for pufas, we've only ever eaten small amounts of them (with notable relatively recent exceptions like the Inuit) so isn''t it just common sense to eat about the same amount for optimum health? If they were a bigger part of our evolutionary diet, we'd thrive on that amount today too.
     
  3. LucH

    LucH Member

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    Pufa are not essential unless you miss B6 and zinc.
    Body transforms oleic acid in mead acid to solve the "problem", where needed.
    :yellohello
    LucH
     
  4. Blinkyrocket

    Blinkyrocket Member

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    You really like evolution don't you? -_-
     
  5. Stuart

    Stuart Member

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    I suppose there is a certain inexorable beauty to it :)
    And it certainly puts human nature in perspective, don't you think?
     
  6. Stuart

    Stuart Member

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    I'm sure you are right. But aren't you still addressing the question of whether they are 'essential'. I think it's a moot point.
    What I'm pointing out is that from day one, it would have been impossible to avoid consuming small amounts of them, so over the millenia humans have been developing, that small amount in a whole fruit/vegetable/animal diet became ideal.
     
  7. jyb

    jyb Member

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    Is PUFA really only stored in the adipose tissue? If so, I feel like it's not as bad as I thought. What if you are slim (little adipose tissue) or your adipocytes are healthy (release fat efficiently and in volume)? Clearly for people with good weight there's no PUFA accumulation after some point in adipose tissue otherwise the volume would eventually grow and it would show on the weight.
     
  8. hmac

    hmac Member

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    I think the idea is that the body recognises the danger of pufa and so preferentially burns saturated fat. This means that there is a bias towards the storing of pufa in the adipose tissue. Because of this tendency the ratio of Pufa:Sfa in the adipose tissue will grow. This means the volume of adipose tissue can stay the same while Pufa becomes a bigger and bigger problem.
     
  9. jyb

    jyb Member

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    I think its unlikely because it would imply that for a lean person, all their adipose tissue is pufa after a while while they'd have no room for storing saturated fatty acids. There are two problems with this, firstly this would mean lean people would be very sick because as soon as they release fatty acids (which can occur many times a day), they would feel very bad from pufa. Secondly, this would mean they burn all saturated fatty acids immediately post meals so that it doesn't accumulates in adipose - but that's not what happens in healthy individuals as the adipocytes are very active at storing and releasing and it to keep it within a certain range in the blood.

    The alternative would be that the lean person eating low pufa/sat fat ratio burns pufa (in small proportion). Presumably the damage would come from there, even if the ratio doesn't increase in stored fat.
     
  10. hmac

    hmac Member

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    Yes, that's a good point!
     
  11. tara

    tara Member

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    I don't think it's only the adipose tissue that can contain and acummulate PUFAs. IIRC, the SFA in cardiolipin in cells gets gradually replaced with PUFA, degrading their function. Also, I know there is contention about the 'lipid bi-layer cell membrane' theory, but there may be ohter components of manay kinds of cells that will be built of whichever fatty acids are available at the time. Myelin sheathing on nerves contains a lot of lipids. There are a lot of fats acids in the brain.
     
  12. halken

    halken Member

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    Westside PUFA, I think you miss a crucial point here: PUFA depletion is a cycle.

    That means the quest for "immortality" is to have minimal PUFA. The degree of toxicity is relative to the density of said toxin. In fact, something to be toxic requires a certain metric to validate its effect on the body. If below, it remains neutral.

    So the ultimate level of health is to have anything toxic be neutralized. Not to eradicate it completely (as we know to be impossible). PUFA is as much a part of nature as anything else. Moreover, other creatures thrive on PUFA and must neutralize other compounds to avoid toxicity (much of which might be healthy for us!).

    I don't think the point here is to reach "zero" with PUFA. It's not possible. We want to reach "zero" for neutralization.

    It's all about stability through constancy.
     
  13. Stuart

    Stuart Member

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    Brain tissue is about 60 % fat - made up of a combination of pufas and cholesterol. DHA (an omega 3) alone is 20%. Not sure how much of the rest is also pufa. Does anyone know?
     
  14. Stuart

    Stuart Member

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    So do you think that 'zero for neutralization' is the small amounts we have consumed throughout our development? If I'm interpreting your comment correctly you are suggesting that those small amounts are actually healthy?
     
  15. halken

    halken Member

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    I'm talking about a level where it's virtually "benign".

    A machine needs energy to run. It also needs maintenance to remain functional. Constant maintenance is the bread of life. It's what keeps the machine running.

    If our bodies are the same. We're not trying to reach a point where PUFA is in a vacuum and we are not to worry about it anymore. PUFA keeps us "maintaining". You could even say (in the vein I am expressing) that PUFA is the bread of life.
     
  16. Stuart

    Stuart Member

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    Fair enough.
    I'm just curious, because it strikes me that the human body is VERY efficient in the way it uses energy, from all constantly available sources. Now if there's a small amount of pufa that we have been routinely ingesting for hundreds of thousands of years, it seems very unlikely indeed that some good use would not have been found for it. I'm not talking about whether it's 'essential' or not, I mean that some small amount of pufa consumption is actually beneficial. I think you were hinting at this by saying that if you did actually manage to reduce this even further, you would miss out on those benefits?
     
  17. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    Do you really think people are convinced they will have "zero" PUFA if they stop using seed oil and drink some milk?
     
  18. YuraCZ

    YuraCZ Member

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    Exactly.. It's not about zero PUFA diet. It's about avoiding things like grilled chicken with fries fried in sunflower oil. Where is maybe 100g+ of PUFA in one meal.. I think under 10g a day is ok and under 5g a day is optimal.. ;)
     
  19. jyb

    jyb Member

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    I'd like to know more about what happens when someone is healthy and lean and eats saturated fats (not skimmed fat, eating whole products but only from the most saturated sources - cow milk and beef raised on green pastures). As I said before, in that situation I would be surprised if pufa accumulated in the adipose over time. Ray also said somewhere that some people are in a better position when in the past they have burnt it and don't accumulate it - I presume this would be the situation of someone lean. So, the PUFA damage (if any) would come from when they burn it on a daily basis rather than later on after accumulation, and possibly from the unsaturated fatty compositions of cells themselves (although if highly diluted in saturated fatty acids, I don't see why this composition would increase over time for roughly the same reasons as for the adipose tissue).
     
  20. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    If something has a long half-life it doesn't take a large chronic dose to develop large stores of it.
     
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