Andrew Kim Fisks Dr. Peat's 4 Year PUFA Evacuation

Discussion in 'Polyunsaturated Fats, Seed Oils' started by narouz, Mar 27, 2013.

  1. narouz

    narouz Member

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    "Dr. Ray Peat Fact Check 2: The Half-Life of Human Fat Tissue is 600 Days?"

    http://www.andrewkimblog.com/2013/02/dr-ray-peat-fact-check-2-half-life-of.html

    from Kim's conclusion:

     
  2. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Bold mine.
     
  3. key

    key Member

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  4. chris

    chris Member

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    The bolded part is a very important part that Kim has missed or ignored.
     
  5. OP
    narouz

    narouz Member

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    I haven't got a dawg in the fight. :)
    Just came across it and thought it was interesting,
    since everything I've seen by Kim agrees with Peat.

    The article was a bit heavy-slogging for scientific dullards like myself,
    so I haven't even read it thoroughly.
    In passing though, it did seem like to me that Kim
    might've been including fat-burning or oxidation--
    which is something that Peat doesn't consider I don't think on this question
    because he thinks that releases the PUFA (to work its evil ways).

    So there may be faster ways of getting rid of PUFA...may be...but...destructive.
     
  6. jyb

    jyb Member

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    Let's just enjoy the article and comment the content not formal details...
     
  7. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    You are right that article reads like it was written for scientific journal. Do not be fooled by jargons.
    Unlike physics, most biological articles are easy read. Even if you do not understand the whole thing,you can get a good idea
    what is going on. People often use scientific terms to impress people.I would suggest you to read the original study cited by Ray Peat. RP did not come up with the number 600 days half life or 2-3 years to change fatty acid composition using diet.

    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/33/1/81.long

    It is a very good read, pay special attention to the table 1 and column P . This study is a mathematical model using 7 different previous studies. If you want to reject this study you are really rejecting data from 7 studies. You can not reject this article because they did not give you raw data of 7 studies. That would not help. He rejected data from 600 days studies because it looks suspicious. That can not be a scientific rebuttal. You have to show other data to make your point, not your suspicion.
    The original study explains everything.


    He did not even try to research other papers related to half life. I did one online search and found one. You can check other studies on half life and you will see what number they use. This is based on elderly population and half life is 680 days.

    http://www.jlr.org/content/7/1/103.long

    Also boot camp fat loss study is completely irrelevant here. If someone starves for months he will loose tons of fat and half life will be changed. But all these studies are about half life of fatty tissue related to dietary change, not intense exercise or calorie restriction. I would be very careful about getting my information from people who does not have advanced degrees in related field.
     
  8. OP
    narouz

    narouz Member

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    Thanks, Mittir.
    "Mittir Fisks Kim's Fisking of Peat"! :D

    I'll check out that original article you linked to.

    And I think you're agreeing with me on the point that Kim
    would seem to be including half-life's based upon scenarios Peat excludes
    because they are, in his view, destructive...?
    (boot camp, oxidation, fasting, extreme exercise, etc).

    Peat thinks the PUFA should be released slowly via chelation:
    "glucuronidation," I think is the scientific term.
     
  9. gretchen

    gretchen Member

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    I was thinking about this earlier since I am coming up on 1 year PUFA restricted in June.

    Just based on past experiences relatively PUFA/fat restricted (I ate a fairly low-fat diet in the mid to late 90s, up until about 2001-2002), it seems like benefits (for me personally) begin around 1-2 years and continue to improve thereafter.
     
  10. j.

    j. Guest

    Tomorrow is my 1-year low-PUFA intake anniversary. I felt lots, lots of improvements, but there is room for more, and I'll be experimenting with K2 (MK4), aspirin, and pregnenolone.
     
  11. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Aspirin is some pretty amazing stuff.
     
  12. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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    Interesting. So in theory, if one artificially promotes metabolic activity, then the increasing concentrations of PUFA that come with age will be mitigated.

    Not quite immortality, but closer than anything else.
     
  13. m_arch

    m_arch Member

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    VICTORY!!!
     
  14. johnwester130

    johnwester130 Member

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    so it doesn't take 4 years ?
     
  15. raypeatclips

    raypeatclips Member

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  16. AJC

    AJC Member

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    Another point to keep in mind is that PUFAs do much of their damage to metabolism by by becoming embedded in the mitochondrial membrane and lowering respiration efficiency that way. I don't know how long it takes to reverse this process, but it is another way that PUFAs may be hampering metabolism independent of the adipocytes themselves...
     
  17. tara

    tara Member

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    I was assuming that this was one of the tissues Peat was referring to as benefitting from the gradual oil change - as well as the actual release of PUFA from adipocytes?
     
  18. AJC

    AJC Member

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    Yes I think Peat was referring to it, but I wasn't sure that Kim was taking it into account in his article.
     
  19. tara

    tara Member

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    Good point.
     
  20. NathanK

    NathanK Member

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    That's one way of saying, "Just drink your coffee"
     
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