If low fat diets increase PUFA release...

[DKayJoe]

Hi, sorry if this question seems dumb, I'm fairly new to this...

I have been reading up on the studies on diets that increase the release of PUFAS from the body e.g low/almost no fat ones.

My question is if you adopted this sort of diet and the release of PUFAS did indeed increase, would that result in a temporary increase in the damage done by PUFAS within the body due to the increase of release until your PUFA stores became drained?

And if so would an increase in Vitamin E be advisable until the release of PUFAS died down?

 

[nikotrope]

There has been a few threads with studies about that recently. Yes low fat would release PUFA but after a few days it should be less harmful and the long term huge benefit is to be PUFA depleted. Vitamin E is important, but things like aspirin, niacinamide, coconut oil and caffeine are protective too.

Here's on of the study : viewtopic.php?f=75&t=5922&p=71024&hilit=pufa#p70467

 

[Ben]

The negative effect of lipolysis isn't just the PUFA just like the negative effect of muscle breakdown isn't just the antimetabolic muscle protein in the blood. Stress hormones are responsible for both occuring. Fat deprivation is a stress, this is why women with PMS or stressed out people crave food with a lot of fat. Don't worry about PUFA depletion, low PUFA is only one little aspect of good health.

 

[tara]

My question is if you adopted this sort of diet and the release of PUFAS did indeed increase, would that result in a temporary increase in the damage done by PUFAS within the body due to the increase of release until your PUFA stores became drained?

From my reading of Peat, I think so.

And if so would an increase in Vitamin E be advisable until the release of PUFAS died down?

I think Peat has suggested this.
Also possibly a little coconut oil - you don't have to add much if you are going for low fat - eg 1-3 tsp.
Make sure you get plenty of carbs for fuel and enough protein to support the liver, which is key to detoxifying released PUFAs (and all the other nutrients ...).

 

[DKayJoe]

Hmm, this may then explain a few of my symptoms at the moment (itching of the hair line, increase in acne) if more PUFAS are being released the maybe it's promoting PG synthesis and increased inflammation. I use coconut oil every day in my carrot salads and on my meat/fish in the evenings so hopefully I am using enough. I am also taking a large dose of vitamin e daily (1000IU), it contains safflower oil but if I understand Peat right the 1000IU dosage should cancel it out. I might however look at taking a few aspirin+caffeine pills throughout the day.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I can only speak from my own personal experience: After severely restricting PUFA for a year and also doing a very low fat stint last summer, I can no longer tolerate my vitamin E supplement. Mine is the Solgar 1000IU with safflower oil, it makes my head itchy and my skin breakout every single time I take it.

In fact, I can tell immediately when I've eaten too much PUFA because I get the same reaction, skin becomes more oily and breaks out without fail. Taking E (at least the brand that I have) to counteract the PUFA makes it worse, I don't know why.

 

[DKayJoe]

Hmmm, funny you say this as I am using the same brand...I'll continue use for another week or two whilst I incorporate a few other changes to my diet so I can more easily see their effects and then maybe think about dropping it. Thanks for the info.

 

[johns74]

The best 2 Vitamin E supplementes I tried are 4spectrum and Carlson E-Gems Plus.

 

[haidut]

My question is if you adopted this sort of diet and the release of PUFAS did indeed increase, would that result in a temporary increase in the damage done by PUFAS within the body due to the increase of release until your PUFA stores became drained?

From my reading of Peat, I think so.

And if so would an increase in Vitamin E be advisable until the release of PUFAS died down?

I think Peat has suggested this.
Also possibly a little coconut oil - you don't have to add much if you are going for low fat - eg 1-3 tsp.
Make sure you get plenty of carbs for fuel and enough protein to support the liver, which is key to detoxifying released PUFAs (and all the other nutrients ...).

From the source:
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/vitamin-e.shtml

"...Besides antagonizing some of the end effects of the toxic fatty acids, vitamin E inhibits lipolysis, lowering the concentration of free fatty acids (the opposite of estrogen’s effect), and it also binds to, and inactivates, free fatty acids. The long saturated carbon chain is very important for its full functioning, and this saturated chain might allow it to serve as a substitute for the omega -9 fats, from which the Mead acid is formed. The unsaturated tocotrienols have hardly been tested for the spectrum of true vitamin E activity, and animal studies have suggested that it may be toxic, since it caused liver enlargement."

I am not sure what Ray means by "inactivates", but it sounds like it would be very beneficial to take vitamin E while fasting (or burning fat for whatever reason) since it is exactly those free fatty acids that wreak havoc on the cells and mitochondria. Considering the above it would be good to take vitamin E often since most people ed up getting occasional stress hormone exposure due to metabolic crash or exercise or long sleep at night. Thus, many people get exposed to free fatty acids from adrenalin even if they don't fast, and vitamin E would come in handy. Vitamin E has a half life of ~48 hours so one would only need to take it 2-3 times a week to main concentrations protective against free fatty acids.
Just my 2c.

 

[tara]

I am not sure what Ray means by "inactivates", but it sounds like it would be very beneficial to take vitamin E while fasting (or burning fat for whatever reason) since it is exactly those free fatty acids that wreak havoc on the cells and mitochondria.

If vit-E hinders lipolysis, then wouldn't supplementing E while fasting beyond glycogen availability risk limiting the fuel supply? I know the PUFAs are crappy fuel, but having insufficient fuel can also cause significant stress, right? And if fasting has run the sugars out, then it's either burn fat or convert protein to sugar. Is it worse to burn fat than to sacrifice organ proteins?

 

[haidut]

I am not sure what Ray means by "inactivates", but it sounds like it would be very beneficial to take vitamin E while fasting (or burning fat for whatever reason) since it is exactly those free fatty acids that wreak havoc on the cells and mitochondria.

If vit-E hinders lipolysis, then wouldn't supplementing E while fasting beyond glycogen availability risk limiting the fuel supply? I know the PUFAs are crappy fuel, but having insufficient fuel can also cause significant stress, right? And if fasting has run the sugars out, then it's either burn fat or convert protein to sugar. Is it worse to burn fat than to sacrifice organ proteins?

I think Peat said that there will always be some lipolysis no matter how much one inhibits it. It could be a mechanism to prevent running out of fuel completely. I don't know if vitamin E will block fat oxdation to the point of becoming dangerous once glycogen runs out but I doubt it. There are human studies on PubMed testing effects of vitamin E on obese people who restrict calories drastically and exercise. This must become lipolytic pretty quickly and I have not seen anything on vitamin E blocking the fat loss. If anything, vitamin E was given to those people to mitigate lipid peroxidation damage and it worked pretty well. If someone knows of a study showing vitamin E induces some sort of fatigue or stress due to blocking lipolysis please share. If vitamin E simply restricts the damage of oxidizing fat then it would be a great tool for someone who wants to lose weight quickly and deplete PUFA stores.

 

[narouz]

"...Besides antagonizing some of the end effects of the toxic fatty acids, vitamin E inhibits lipolysis, lowering the concentration of free fatty acids (the opposite of estrogen’s effect), and it also binds to, and inactivates, free fatty acids...."

Thanks for this, haidut!
I've been hoping to come across a Peat comment on this basic Peat issue.

I've been very suspicious of the notion
that if you want to eat some PUFA,
it's okay as long a you have high vitamin E levels at the time.
But...looks like there's something to it.

I've known about vitamin E's and PUFA.
I just haven't been able to nail down
that Peat ever said something like "inactivates."
That's pretty strong.

I have heard him say that cows use vitamin E to "detoxify" PUFA.
But I hadn't heard him say something that strong about humans.

 

[tara]

I think Peat doesn't say vit E makes PUFA consumption safe, just safer.