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PUFA Depletion Can (probably) Be Accomplished In 30 Days!

Discussion in 'Polyunsaturated Fats, Seed Oils' started by haidut, Oct 8, 2014.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Since removing PUFA from the body is one of the primary goals of Peatarians, naturally anything that can speed up the process of waiting at least 4 years would be highly desirable. I have been experimenting myself relentlessly with speeding that process up (as safely as possible). While searching for clues, I came across this study from 1959. It used monkeys and special diets (high PUFA or fat-free) to deplete and then replete PUFA from serum, cholesterol, and most importantly tissues. If I am reading this study right, and if monkey studies translate well to humans, I think there are some very good news for all of us. Some takeaways from the study.

    1) On a fat-free diet, PUFA depletion in serum and cholesterol was daramatic and it took about 4 days to almost fully deplete PUFA.
    2) In various tissues like muscle, skin and testis, PUFA depletion was slower, but still after ONLY 31 days the PUFA depletion in tissues reached the depletion levels seen in serum and cholesterol. As far as I can see PUFA levels fell to under 5% concentration in tissues. Again, this was achieved when feeding fat-free diet.
    3) Perhaps the most important, and depressing finding - even a single high PUFA meal replenished PUFA content in serum, cholesterol and tissues almost up to the levels seen before starting fat-free diets. So, after depleting PUFA make sure to avoid even a single "binge event" of restaurant food unless you are loaded up on vitamin E.

    Fat-free diets are unrealistic and maybe even unhealthy for many people. However, it is not hard to eat very low-fat diets with no more than 5% fat daily and feel fine. If the study translates to humans this probably means successful depletion of PUFA in as few as 2-3 months. I would appreciate it if someone else reads the study as well and tells me if I am reading this right. If this study is correct, I think it makes the Peatarian goals of being PUFA-free much more realistic. I know quite a few people that do not follow Peatarian diets ONLY b/c they are quite discouraged by the prospects of waiting 4+ years to see lasting benefits.
    Anyways, please read and fire away. Figure 7 and Table 1 from the study are the most important for our purposes - i.e. tissue depletion of PUFA.

    http://jn.nutrition.org/content/69/3/245.full.pdf

    "...The reversal of PFA concentrations in muscle, skin, and testis was much slower; however, the reversal in PFA concentrations had occurred in these tissues by 31 days after the diet reversal."
     

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  2. superhuman

    superhuman Member

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    awesome
    skimmed milk, candy, fruit,coca cola is almost fat free :)
    I could do that easy for 31 days but im afraid i would way to many calories so i would gain fat wich i dont want to do :(
     
  3. Canadada

    Canadada New Member

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    Wouldn't releasing all that PUFA in one go, wreck a metabolism though?
     
  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Well, it didn't seem to affect the monkeys that badly otherwise the study would have mentioned something. Also, taking taurine and vitamin E greatly reduces the oxidative PUFA poisons, and vitamin E may even saturate some of the PUFAs before they are burned by the cells, thus reducing damage even further.
    I am just not sure Peat's way of depleting them slowly is practical for everybody. He says that stored PUFA is more or less safe and with time the liver with glucuronidate them out of the body. The problem is, virtually everybody is oxidizing PUFAs all the time due to inefficient metabolism, low glycogen, chronic conditions, stress, exercise, etc. Taking niacinamide and aspirin may help but then again many people cannot take aspirin for various reasons. Long story short - I think that for SOME people who are burning PUFA anyways it may be better to just eat a fat-free diet for 30 days and be done with it.
    Also, I am not sure the monkeys were forced to flush their PUFA into the blood stream. They ate enough sugar to prevent adrenalin from rising, so it must be their muscles burning the PUFA at high speed while on a fat-free diet.
    Peat mentioned that the guy who went on a fat-free milk and orange juice diet experienced significant weight loss and it was not muscle loss but fat. So, I think it's worth a try to do very low fat diet for a month. Note that the monkeys were not exercising, otherwise it would have been mentioned. The PUFA were burned through normal metabolism, not stress and adrenalin.
    Just my 2c.
     
  5. Canadada

    Canadada New Member

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    I can try that out as I'm about thirty fat pounds over and I'm getting a little bit impatient lately. If I'm careful and attentive, there shouldn't be much risk of a downside if things don't work out as hoped, weight-wise..
     
  6. visionofstrength

    visionofstrength Member

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    I guess the question that presents itself is, can the studies in man that Peat cites be refuted by a study on monkeys? Are there subsequent studies that cite the monkey study as a refutation? I don't see any here: Repletion and depletion of polyunsaturated fatty acids in Cebus monkeys. - PubMed - NCBI

    Here, I do see a number of studies that continue to cite to the one Peat relies on:
    A mathematical relationship between the fatty acid composition of the diet and that of the adipose tissue in man. - PubMed - NCBI

    Why would someone be discouraged or encouraged by how long it takes to turnover fatty acids in tissue? The effects of improving CO2 levels in your blood (i.e., improving metabolism) are just as immediate as moving to an altitude of 9,000 feet. You feel each day like you are breathing fresh new air, and an amazing clarity, just as you would at high altitude. Fat deposits melt off of you, and you have great energy, again, just as you would at high altitude.

    Why would you care about some imperceptible turnover of fatty acids?

    Now, if someone isn't feeling these effects immediately, it just means they haven't yet figured out quite how to do the few simple, practical strategies that Peat advocates, right? Carbon dioxide therapy, red light, small doses of redox balancers every couple hours (niacinamide, thyroid, progesterone and DHEA), sipping a very strong coffee with nonfat milk, and selecting a diet that, in the longer term, minimizes intestinal inflammation, unsaturated fat, and meat devoid of cartilage.

    It's really not hard.
     

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  7. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Agreed, I am also not sure if one study in monkeys refutes the human study Peat cites. However, I believe that he has cited only one such study, right?
    In any event, I thought it would be good to have a "fast track" option for those not willing to wait 4+ years with the tradeoff of increased risks. If someone wants to wait great, if not then go the quick depletion route and do as much as possible to mitigate the damage.
     
  8. visionofstrength

    visionofstrength Member

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    The article Oils in Context talks about these three:

    Beynen, A. C., P. J. J. Hermus, and J. G. A. J. Hautvast, "A mathematical relationship between the fatty acid composition of the diet and that of the adipose tissue in man," Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 33(1), 81-5, 1980.

    Draper, H. H., et al., Lipids 21(4), 305-7, 1986, "Metabolism of MDA."

    Lemeshko, V. V., et al., Uk. Biokhim. Zh. 54(3), 325-7, 1982.
    Since this is the Peat forum, I feel I should say that Peat believes that a diet with saturated fat, specifically, coconut oil (maybe a teaspoon three times a day), is safer than a completely fat-free diet, during the time when there are unsaturated fats in the tissue.

    He believes that a small amount of coconut oil may be able to break up the otherwise harmful oxidation of the unsaturated fats in the body, in the same way that coconut oil itself does not spoil (or oxidize) when stored at room temperature.
     
  9. Velve921

    Velve921 Member

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    Does anyone else have experience with going completely PUFA free or close to it? Have a lot of people seen extreme fat loss with going fat free?
     
  10. max219

    max219 Member

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    I think I'm gonna try this starting next week. Only problem is thanksgiving day is a family event, but I'll try my best to stick to saturated that day.

    I have been avoiding PUFA for 18 months now, I have noticed improvemnets in metabolism during that time. I've had about 10-15 grams of PUFA maybe one day a month each month, on average. Every other day is usually 5 grams or less. I am about 12-14 % body fat, and I'm not looking for a re-composition (although fat loss would be cool). I plan to eat 3500-4000 calories a day, as I do that mostly now anyway with about 40 grams of fat.

    I plan to eat rice, potatoes, non-fat milk, non-fat yogurt, honey, sugar, dates, dried fruit, bananas, gelatin and shrimp primarily. Breakfast cereals if I want something junky, but ones that don't have fat if it's added up.
     
  11. Philomath

    Philomath Member

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    FYI, here is the "Guy" Peat mentioned:
    You can read the exact details and results of the experiment. I asked Dr. Peat once if it was practical to try the Burr experiment diet on myself - he said yes, just use OJ instead of the sucrose and coconut oil instead of mineral oil. So there should be no issue with burning off the PUFA over 30 days.

    Just as an aside, I found this article on the same site justifying the essentially of PUFA's based and the same Burr experiment - insane!

    http://jn.nutrition.org/content/128/2/427S.full
     
  12. Velve921

    Velve921 Member

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    Max219,

    Please keep us upto date if you do not mind of course. I would like to know the improvements you see with going fat free! If this successful at improving symptoms of well being I'll be sold! I truly wish you all the best!
     
  13. johns74

    johns74 Member

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    I think this shouldn't be hard to verify.

    In a study that Peat mentions, a graduate student went on a very low fat diet (less than 2g per day), intending to show some fatty acids were essential. He was on that diet for 6 months. They recorded his serum iodine number, which reflects the unsaturation of the fatty acids. That number can be seen in the paper. Does it correspond to a fatty acids profile without PUFAs?
     
  14. kineticz

    kineticz Member

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    You mentioned loading up on Vitamin E for preventing PUFA damage. Can you inform your known role of Vitamin E as we are trying to work out why it's helping me.
     
  15. tara

    tara Member

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  16. narouz

    narouz Member

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    This is so weird.
    Honestly, today,
    I had this random thought:
    ask haidut for a PUFA Depletion diet.
    I had it in mind to ask it of him in a joking way
    (because yeah PUFA detox is by some measures a Holy Grail of Peatism).

    And here it is and I'd never seen this thread! :D
     
  17. narouz

    narouz Member

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    I'm sensing a hope restraint within for some reason.
    Peat says 4 years.
    haidut says 30 days.

    Okay...I'm willing to believe!
    I do believe in haidut! :D
     
  18. Peata

    Peata Member

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    Sorry if this has been asked, but i missed it. What would be considered a high PUFA amount that would replenish it in serum, tissue?

    In the last 9 days, my highest intake was 4.6 g. and lowest 1.4 g. Averaging 2.5 g. day in the last week.
     
  19. SQu

    SQu Member

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    I have a question about pufa removal. 5 years ago my husband lost a lot of weight fast on hcg. He then got a mystifying and very bad fever that took him to hospital for a week, ICU 3 nights. Doctors puzzled. He took 8 months to get back to his old self. later we thought it might have been pufa release without vitamin e or any other peat support measures. Since October last year he's lost 8 kg effortlessly by semi peating (mostly adding fat free milk and sugar) but recently feeling unwell again in milder version of that episode. A day in bed with high fever which this time resolved with gelatin, aspirin, chicken soup, charcoal, carrot. Another thing relevant or not is his clothes are no looser though the scale shows weight loss. Has anyone heard of such a reaction to rapid weight loss and pufa release? I must say the only ones who seemed to understand were homeopaths and people who believe in detox. I'm checking threads for support measures like vit e, niacinamide, aspirin, taurine. apologies if I'm hijacking but it seems fairly on topic!
     
  20. barbwirehouse

    barbwirehouse Member

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    Sounds about right to me but don't take my word for it. Has he tried supplementing with vitamin e, k or zinc? Has PUFA intake been reduced enough (<4g day)?
     
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