An Almost Fat Free, Starch Free Experiment

[4peatssake]

Sniff, me 2

 

[SQu]

I tried cutting down on the condensed milk just to see if that desire for it really means something, and because not having 1000 years for experimentation I was also doing some other things, not sure what's responsible, but for the record: got some more stomach pain. Lurking around, niggling, not timed at all with food but possibly with an empty stomach. Not agonizing, just warning me. The other strong contender for responsibility is bread, albeit homemade, 24 hour fermentation. Going by appetite alone, and how I feel when and after I eat them, even now that the novelty has worn off, both are doing me good. The third possibility is winter. Last week it got cold and there was some cloud and that is a disaster for my mood, firstly, and then for everything else - aching, sleep, cold fingers. I need to get sun daily, it's the crucial factor that is keeping me feeling well, though a notch down on metabolism and then of course the stomach pains. I might just need more sugar. Have not had the time to make oj and feel like coffee more at the moment anyway. I have reached a ceiling on thyroid supplementing too.
Edit: having more calcium as eggshell to keep the ratio good

 

[Giraffe]

Hi Suec, just started to read you thread ...

Regarding your cravings for sweetness/nougat:

I read you are making jelly with fruits. You could heat milk with cacao, then add the gelantine and some vanilla (perhaps also a little Ceylon cinnamon). Mash a fully ripe banana (little brown dots). Add the banana mash to the jelly. Add more fruit if you like.

I don't need any additional sugar this way.

Reducing fat or why it might not be so important:

Coconut oil does not behave like any fat. The medium-chain fatty acids (around 60%) are converted by liver to ketones. These ketones are used by the cells like sugar, but ketones neither can be stored nor converted back. Excess ketones are excreted in the urine. And these MCFAs are easy to digest, no bile acid needed.
--- Anyone please correct me, if I am wrong! ---

Ray Peat wrote that he lost weight by adding coconut oil (200 or 250 kcal) without changing his diet otherwise.

 

[SQu]

Thanks giraffe! I use coconut oil for cooking. I actually suspect I do better with butter actually, but there's not much in it, they're both good.
Currently I'm not even having much skim milk because it tastes of the plastic bottles it comes in, more so than 2% or full cream. On top of which I love big glasses of cold milk but it's winter and while I still want them, they cool me and I'll get stomach ache too.
The condensed milk remains a staple right now, who would have thought?! In my case it is very digestion - friendly. Cutting back on it increases my hypothyroid symptoms. Also lowers the dairy and thus the calcium phosphorus ratio and I've been feeling the aches and stiffness as a result. Eggshell doesn't quite fill the gap
I'll try that gelatin - cocoa - banana mix. Im having tinned fruit now because firstly I haven't had the time to juice oj, secondly I need the extra sugar. But bananas are sweet enough

 

[SQu]

From another thread:

I think this part is far more interesting. We are often taught "No Pain, No Gain". Perhaps it should be "Pain, No Gain".

A crucial principle for me. If I don't feel good I'm not doing well. It correlates perfectly. But training yourself to take positive steps to feel better takes ages especially when you're in a kind of 'lockdown' survival mode. Which some here would call a serotonin induced learned helplessness state. I'm pretty sure it's also an estrogen dominant state. I've been trying to understand my regular ' bad patches ' , hampered by the fact that it's the worst time for such mental work. Occasionally they're in synch with my cycle. I thought more aspirin and cyproheptadine would help. They do. But only rarely do they shorten a bad patch. This one's been more than 2 weeks. Explained in part by being too busy to dose thyroid often enough. And in part by winter though im making sure to get enough sun and also red light. But cortisol is high again, stomach bigger. The worst constipation ever. I have a break now and im resting, sunbathing, getting regular with thyroid etc, and introducing after meals a cup of hot gelatin, sugar, teaspoon of urea, and aspirin. 2nd day of this I'm having the same unquenchable thirst for milk which goes down well that I had once before on urea and ww associated with some loss of excess water, less swelling.

 

[SQu]

The past 2 weeks have been school holidays and half my family has been away. I've taken a break, had flu, slept a lot (but not so well at night - sleeping late next day rather) and avoided the kitchen. I've had eggs for breakfast with coffee condensed milk and a gelatin drink, usually a fruit jelly or chicken soup for the other 2 meals, sugar, milk. Almost no starch or muscle meat the whole time, very little fat. Started at low ebb due to stress, winter. Actively trying to manage constipation, night adrenalin. Haven't missed a carrot salad. Mag bicarb water. Aspirin. Transit time slow. Hopefully it's the serotonin lowering. Going to try the aloe juice seeing as i have lots in the garden. Got to the doc for refill t3, progesterone only to kick myself for not bringing theanine along to deal with the 120 pulse I suddenly got. I consider 100 to be too high as it is and dont normally go there. But 120 - just when I'm trying to impress him with my great t3 self management bio feedback 'you can trust me, i know what I'm doing' approach.No wonder he has doubts. anyway I have to do blood tests soon and he's worried about my high cholesterol not to mention bp so taurine, magnesium! I've also tried lysine and added back urea and other than being slow my digestion has been feeling absolutely great for the first time in ages. To put it better : no digestive pain, indigestion, burning or 'food just sitting there, inert stomach' feeling. Slow transit remains.

 

[Peata]

I don't know if you're using coconut oil in the carrot salad, but you could use that or try a little extra coconut oil during the day. To help with endotoxin, thyroid, minerals and digestion. Hope you feel better soon.

 

[cantstoppeating]

Hi Suec, just started to read you thread ...

Regarding your cravings for sweetness/nougat:

I read you are making jelly with fruits. You could heat milk with cacao, then add the gelantine and some vanilla (perhaps also a little Ceylon cinnamon). Mash a fully ripe banana (little brown dots). Add the banana mash to the jelly. Add more fruit if you like.

I don't need any additional sugar this way.

Reducing fat or why it might not be so important:

Coconut oil does not behave like any fat. The medium-chain fatty acids (around 60%) are converted by liver to ketones. These ketones are used by the cells like sugar, but ketones neither can be stored nor converted back. Excess ketones are excreted in the urine. And these MCFAs are easy to digest, no bile acid needed.
--- Anyone please correct me, if I am wrong! ---

Ray Peat wrote that he lost weight by adding coconut oil (200 or 250 kcal) without changing his diet otherwise.

Ray has also commented about the goodness of ketones as a fuel source, when someone on a radio interview asked him about ketosis. He said the catch is that ketone production is a result of stress.

I'm not 100% sure Peat is clued into the latest relevant research on this, especially after seeing the experiments of Peter Attia.

Anyway, consuming a few teaspoons of coconut oil with your foods is Peat approved.

 

[SQu]

Thanks for the input. I looked at that link. Low carb and ketogenic, right? I do need solutions and I so wish peat would address those of us who don't fix that easy but low carb is why I need fixing in the first place. Thanks for the suggestions though!
Back to basics:
Temp 5.30am after almost sleepless night: 36.1. After breakfast : 35.8 .temps have never got off the ground really. I had even taken t3 by then. Not back on progesterone yet. Getting today.
Something encouraging : blood glucose 5.30 am : 4.5 (80) yay! Was expecting higher. Clonidine at bedtime may explain. Plus multiple snacks through night in vain attempt to get back to sleep. My bathroom looks like a family's been picnicking in it.
Pulse after breakfast 75.
Bad patch with sleep. Stress of 2.5 week experiment with more gelatin? Fixed upper digestive tract nicely but destroyed sleep. Or endotoxin from gelatin? Will attempt to answer this soon.
Stomach looks and feels bigger but tape measure says down 2cm. Hope the tape measure is right.
Dreading blood tests frankly. if cholesterol not dropping, doc may get bolshy re statins etc. I'm scarcely a shining example of why doctors should listen to their patients right now. Vice versa also true but he doesn't know that.
Mood defeated

 

[SQu]

Feeling much better. started one week ago. Sleeping better. Managing constipation better. Much better mood. No change to the current diet which adds 60 g gelatin and a lot more sugar daily for the past month. Don't think gelatin was disagreeing with me. I think what has turned this around are cascara and eggshell calcium .cascara is hard to get here but seemingly worth the effort. I'm experimenting with fresh aloe too. Only just started with that though and this improvement started immediately with the cascara. Also think lysine has been helpful. Confirms my insomnia digestion related.

 

[YuraCZ]

I stopped this low fat BS. It is bad for hormones, bad for utilization of fat soluble vitamins etc.. So basically low fat (under 20g) is anti Peat diet.. Now I'm around 40-50 g of fat(eggs, coconut oil, here and there sardines etc..) a day and its ok..

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Ray has also commented about the goodness of ketones as a fuel source

I didn't interpret it that way. I heard him say it was nothing but a stress reaction and you shouldn't force your body to do it.

 

[Jennifer]

Feeling much better. started one week ago. Sleeping better. Managing constipation better. Much better mood. No change to the current diet which adds 60 g gelatin and a lot more sugar daily for the past month. Don't think gelatin was disagreeing with me. I think what has turned this around are cascara and eggshell calcium .cascara is hard to get here but seemingly worth the effort. I'm experimenting with fresh aloe too. Only just started with that though and this improvement started immediately with the cascara. Also think lysine has been helpful. Confirms my insomnia digestion related.

I'm glad you're feeling better, sueq! That's great! Cascara has helped me out a lot, too. I make it into an extract so it's very potent and bitter. I figure the more bitter it is, the more active the emodin. My theory is probably flawed, but it makes me feel better when I have to drink that nasty liquid. Haha!

 

[SQu]

Yes I am loving the cascara. Can only find it in a tincture. So I don't know exactly how much I'm getting. Seems gentle, healing. My mood is so much better I'm wondering whether cascara helps lower serotonin in the gut.

 

[Jennifer]

Yeah, I would think it helps lower serotonin because the emodin it contains helps to heal the intestinal lining which would not only prevent endotoxins from getting through, but allow the intestines to regenerate enzymes that help break down food thus reducing endotoxins? Plus, it has a laxative effect so the faster transit would mean less food for bacteria and less endotoxins being produced?

 

[Giraffe]

Ray has also commented about the goodness of ketones as a fuel source

I didn't interpret it that way. I heard him say it was nothing but a stress reaction and you shouldn't force your body to do it.

Fruits and vegetables are a food sources of ketones, and ketones you get from these are considered good by Ray Peat.

They talk about coconut oil, chort chain fatty acids and ketones in the Good Fats radio interview.

 

[SQu]

Update: feeling very good ; managing to short circuit bad patches having finally identified them as estrogen. If this seems slow - 4 years + - I think is because as peat says pms widens to include most of the month, so the connection wasn't clear. Recent helpful measures include return of warm weather ; much more sun time (1-2h) ; progesterone ; progesterone ; progesterone and did I mention progesterone? ; cascara ; recent diet change of adding more gelatin, much more; also sugar and salt and calcium; less meat starch and fat; spreading out aspirin and cypro heptadine doses through the day. Cascara has been so great for my mood that I've ordered it in bulk as I have to keep taking this stuff! I'll be looking up on how to prepare it when it arrives.

 

[Peata]

Glad you're doing better. I know about pms expanding to more and more of the month. I experienced that myself - at one time thought I was getting "chronic fatigue syndrome". And another time about 6 months into Peating, I was experiencing PMDD. Since then it has been a mix up of symptoms, depending where I am in cycle. But things have been going pretty well lately. I seem to be able to get by with less Progest E, and it may be because I was able to increase caffeine, not sure yet. I don't use gelatin but use glycine and it does seem helpful to me. Cascara I haven't tried. Did you start taking it due to constipation? That's one problem I don't get - if anything it's the opposite.

 

[SQu]

Hi peata in the end estrogen seems to underlie just about everything in my case. My symptoms at their worst started to include nausea and vertigo. Cascara I only just tried as it's hard to find here. Took to manage chronic constipation for which it was very gentle and made my entire digestive process feel very well and to my surprise, mood too. Seemed to have a far more widespread good effect than just the constipation relief. Seemed almost by the way, that aspect.

 

[SQu]

When I ran out I tried pau d Arco. And the feeling of wellbeing continued. I plan to use one or the other or possibly both to keep this feeling and the attendant benefits going! When I feel good my health is correlated to that feeling and so is weight loss - (clothes looser again)